Yahweh Is His Name... or Is It? (Sacred Name Movement)

[Victoria]

@amazing grace


Yahweh groups originated in the 1930s as part of what is known as the Sacred Name movement. This movement began among some members of the Seventh-Day Church of God who were convinced that knowing God’s name was vital. By the mid-1930s “several members and ministers of the Church of God Seventh-Day, such as Elder J. D. Bagwell, began to use the ‘sacred name’ and to promote the cause actively.”1

Out of this movement, numerous Yahweh groups have sprung up over the years. Probably the largest is the Assemblies of Yahweh, based in Bethel, Pennsylvania. Jacob O. Meyer, a former member of the Church of the Brethren, started attending a small Sacred Name church in Hamburg, Pennsylvania. This led him to start a radio ministry in Bethel in 1966 called The Sacred Name Broadcast.2 This was followed by The Sacred Name Broadcaster magazine in 1968 and in 1969 he founded the Assemblies of Yahweh. It is reported that today affiliated assemblies are located in more than a hundred countries around the world with a total membership of several thousand.3

Other groups that are part of the Yahweh movement include Yahweh’s Restoration Ministry, based in Jefferson City, Missouri; the Assembly of Yahweh 7th Day, based in Rising Star, Texas; and Yahweh’s Assembly in Yahshua in Kingdom City, Missouri.

Undoubtedly the most notorious of the Yahweh groups these days is The House of Yahweh in Abilene, Texas, led by Yisrayl (Bill) Hawkins. This organization began with the founding of The House of Yahweh in Odessa, Texas, by Yisrayl’s late brother Jacob, assisted by Yisrayl. In 1980 Yisrayl began holding services outside of Abilene “after he became convinced of the necessity of establishing the House of Yahweh according to the prophecies of Micah 4:1–2 and Isaiah 2:2.”4

Yisrayl, who claims that he and his brother are the two witnesses described in the book of Revelation,5 is best known by his predictions of nuclear war. He first predicted war for September 12, 2006, stating on The Prophetic Word TV program, “Write down this date. September 12, nuclear war. Prophecy shows that nuclear war will start September 12, 2006.”6

He later revised that date to say that nuclear war was only conceived on that date, and that the baby was “going to develop in nine months, the nuclear baby that started September 12th, 2006, and will end June 12th, 2007. Just a few months are left.”7

When that failed to materialize, he then predicted nuclear war for June 12, 2008. “‘It could be turned loose before then,’ Hawkins told 20/20….‘You’re going to see this very soon, really soon,’ he said.”8

Doctrinal Distinctions. Yahweh groups have several doctrinal distinctions that separate them from biblical Christianity.

The first is the name of the Father and of Jesus. As the Assemblies of Yahweh report in their Statement of Doctrine, “We affirm that it is necessary and most important to our salvation that we accept the revealed, personal Name of our Heavenly Father YAHWEH and the Name of His Son, our Savior YAHSHUA the MESSIAH.”9

They deny the doctrine of the Trinity, holding that the Holy Spirit is a “mighty power from the Heavenly Father and the Messiah dwelling within us so that we may have the ability and strength to bring our lives into a state of perfection pleasing to our Heavenly Father, John 14:15–27. We find the trinitarian doctrine to be foreign to the inspired Scriptures.”10

They also teach that “the Bible commands the observance of all Yahweh’s laws, statutes, and judgments in both Old and New testaments (except the sacrifices mentioned in Hebrews 9 and ritual circumcision).”11 This includes the annual feast days and observance of Saturday as the Sabbath.

Additionally, Yahweh groups believe that the soul does not survive death, deny eternal conscious punishment of the unsaved in hell, and teach that women are to keep their heads covered while in church and to remain silent.

Yahweh groups have no justification whatsoever for insisting salvation hinges on using the names Yahweh and Yashua. To begin with, vowels were not used in Hebrew, thus making it impossible to know for sure the exact pronunciation of YHWH.

Finally, to get hung up on the “proper” name is to get caught up in legalism. Christians are saved by grace through faith, not by knowing the proper pronunciation of God’s name.


By: Bob Hunter

Yahweh Is His Name


The Sacred Name Movement is a movement within Adventism concerned with emphasizing the use of the Hebrew name of God. Influenced by Clarence Orvil Dodd, the movement considers the use of God's name as important as the Jewish festivals. SNM believers also generally observe many of the Old Testament laws and ceremonies such as the Seventh-day Sabbath, Torah festivals, and kashrut food laws. The movement also rejects the doctrine of the Trinity as unbiblical.

Sacred Name Movement

 

[amazing grace]

@amazing grace


Yahweh groups originated in the 1930s as part of what is known as the Sacred Name movement. This movement began among some members of the Seventh-Day Church of God who were convinced that knowing God’s name was vital. By the mid-1930s “several members and ministers of the Church of God Seventh-Day, such as Elder J. D. Bagwell, began to use the ‘sacred name’ and to promote the cause actively.”1

Out of this movement, numerous Yahweh groups have sprung up over the years. Probably the largest is the Assemblies of Yahweh, based in Bethel, Pennsylvania. Jacob O. Meyer, a former member of the Church of the Brethren, started attending a small Sacred Name church in Hamburg, Pennsylvania. This led him to start a radio ministry in Bethel in 1966 called The Sacred Name Broadcast.2 This was followed by The Sacred Name Broadcaster magazine in 1968 and in 1969 he founded the Assemblies of Yahweh. It is reported that today affiliated assemblies are located in more than a hundred countries around the world with a total membership of several thousand.3

Other groups that are part of the Yahweh movement include Yahweh’s Restoration Ministry, based in Jefferson City, Missouri; the Assembly of Yahweh 7th Day, based in Rising Star, Texas; and Yahweh’s Assembly in Yahshua in Kingdom City, Missouri.

Undoubtedly the most notorious of the Yahweh groups these days is The House of Yahweh in Abilene, Texas, led by Yisrayl (Bill) Hawkins. This organization began with the founding of The House of Yahweh in Odessa, Texas, by Yisrayl’s late brother Jacob, assisted by Yisrayl. In 1980 Yisrayl began holding services outside of Abilene “after he became convinced of the necessity of establishing the House of Yahweh according to the prophecies of Micah 4:1–2 and Isaiah 2:2.”4

Yisrayl, who claims that he and his brother are the two witnesses described in the book of Revelation,5 is best known by his predictions of nuclear war. He first predicted war for September 12, 2006, stating on The Prophetic Word TV program, “Write down this date. September 12, nuclear war. Prophecy shows that nuclear war will start September 12, 2006.”6

He later revised that date to say that nuclear war was only conceived on that date, and that the baby was “going to develop in nine months, the nuclear baby that started September 12th, 2006, and will end June 12th, 2007. Just a few months are left.”7

When that failed to materialize, he then predicted nuclear war for June 12, 2008. “‘It could be turned loose before then,’ Hawkins told 20/20….‘You’re going to see this very soon, really soon,’ he said.”8

Doctrinal Distinctions. Yahweh groups have several doctrinal distinctions that separate them from biblical Christianity.

The first is the name of the Father and of Jesus. As the Assemblies of Yahweh report in their Statement of Doctrine, “We affirm that it is necessary and most important to our salvation that we accept the revealed, personal Name of our Heavenly Father YAHWEH and the Name of His Son, our Savior YAHSHUA the MESSIAH.”9

They deny the doctrine of the Trinity, holding that the Holy Spirit is a “mighty power from the Heavenly Father and the Messiah dwelling within us so that we may have the ability and strength to bring our lives into a state of perfection pleasing to our Heavenly Father, John 14:15–27. We find the trinitarian doctrine to be foreign to the inspired Scriptures.”10

They also teach that “the Bible commands the observance of all Yahweh’s laws, statutes, and judgments in both Old and New testaments (except the sacrifices mentioned in Hebrews 9 and ritual circumcision).”11 This includes the annual feast days and observance of Saturday as the Sabbath.

Additionally, Yahweh groups believe that the soul does not survive death, deny eternal conscious punishment of the unsaved in hell, and teach that women are to keep their heads covered while in church and to remain silent.

Yahweh groups have no justification whatsoever for insisting salvation hinges on using the names Yahweh and Yashua. To begin with, vowels were not used in Hebrew, thus making it impossible to know for sure the exact pronunciation of YHWH.

Finally, to get hung up on the “proper” name is to get caught up in legalism. Christians are saved by grace through faith, not by knowing the proper pronunciation of God’s name.


By: Bob Hunter

Yahweh Is His Name


The Sacred Name Movement is a movement within Adventism concerned with emphasizing the use of the Hebrew name of God. Influenced by Clarence Orvil Dodd, the movement considers the use of God's name as important as the Jewish festivals. SNM believers also generally observe many of the Old Testament laws and ceremonies such as the Seventh-day Sabbath, Torah festivals, and kashrut food laws. The movement also rejects the doctrine of the Trinity as unbiblical.

Sacred Name Movement

Can I ask YOU what is the problem with using God's name? LORD - Jehovah/Yahweh
I have no idea who 'Clarence Orvil Dodd, is nor what this movement is.

The Tetragrammaton is the four-letter Hebrew-language theonym יהוה‎ (transliterated as YHWH), the name of God in the Hebrew Bible. The four Hebrew letters, written and read from right to left, are yod, he, vav, and he. The name may be derived from a verb that means 'to be', 'to exist', 'to cause to become', or 'to come to pass'.

While there is no consensus about the structure and etymology of the name, the form Yahweh (with niqqud: יַהוֶה) is now almost universally accepted among Biblical and Semitic linguistics scholars, though the vocalization Jehovah continues to have wide usage, especially in Christian traditions. In modernity, Christianity is the only Abrahamic religion in which the Tetragrammaton is freely and openly pronounced. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton)

 

[Victoria]

Can I ask YOU what is the problem with using God's name? LORD - Yahweh

It's idolatry

I have no idea who 'Clarence Orvil Dodd, is nor what this movement is.

Clearly

 

[amazing grace]

It's idolatry
Clearly

Idolatry? You want to accuse me of idolatry when you are the one who worships a Triune God! What a joke.

If 'I AM WHO I AM = YHWH = LORD = Jehovah (English) - used approximately 7,000 to 9,000 times in scripture depending upon the translation - All reference the only God of scripture, the Father - HOW IS THAT IDOLATRY? Are you new to Bible study?
You need to do a little more studying.

 

[Victoria]

Idolatry? You want to accuse me of idolatry when you are the one who worships a Triune God! What a joke.

It's Abba, Father, not a Hebrew name, all His children call Him by now.
And hello! Jesus is the name above ALL names

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:1; 14

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9-11

 

[amazing grace]

It's Abba, Father, not a Hebrew name, all His children call Him by now.
And hello! Jesus is the name above ALL names

What are you talking about? Correct = Abba Father is Aramaic. I thought we were talking about Yahweh which is God's own personal name - LORD. I never spoke of Abba Father . . .

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...

Amen - John 1:1a In the beginning was the word and John 1:1b the word was with God and John 1:1c the word was God . . .
Yep, the word was in the beginning with God - HIS powerful creative word --- AND GOD SAID and it was done throughout Genesis 1. If John 1:1c read: the word was 'the God' then yes, the word would be GOD but it reads the word (subject) was (verb) God (predicate adjective). 'God' is a noun being used as an adjective - What God was the word was, i.e. the word was the full expression of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:1; 14

Amen - the word was made flesh and dwelt among us . . . the word embodied the only begotten of the Father - the full expression of God embodied the Son . . . God did not become flesh, i.e. a human being --- Jesus became flesh, a human being.

How degrading to think Almighty God would become one of his created beings. Why would he want to become a human being? Did he lie when he said he gave his Son to redeem mankind? And if he gave his Son to carry out His plan of salvation WHY did God himself have to 'come in the flesh', become a human being? Makes no sense at all. If the Son is God who did he remain obedient to - God remained obedient to God???

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9-11

Yes, because of Jesus' humbling himself and submitting his will to that of God his Father remaining in total obedience to the point of death on a cross ---- he has been highly exalted and seated at the right hand of God the Father and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.

 

[Victoria]

What are you talking about? Correct = Abba Father is Aramaic. I thought we were talking about Yahweh which is God's own personal name - LORD. I never spoke of Abba Father . . .

All things throughout the Bible point to the Word, which is Jesus Christ. It's ALL about Him. Jesus knew humanity would desire to worship a name over Him.

Amen - John 1:1a In the beginning was the word and John 1:1b the word was with God and John 1:1c the word was God . . .
Yep, the word was in the beginning with God - HIS powerful creative word --- AND GOD SAID and it was done throughout Genesis 1. If John 1:1c read: the word was 'the God' then yes, the word would be GOD but it reads the word (subject) was (verb) God (predicate adjective). 'God' is a noun being used as an adjective - What God was the word was, i.e. the word was the full expression of God.

Let "us" make man in "our" image, after "our" likeness. Jesus, being the express image of God, came to make God known.
In the flesh, humanity resembles Jesus. God is spirit, Jesus was the physical manifestation of God.

Amen - the word was made flesh and dwelt among us . . . the word embodied the only begotten of the Father - the full expression of God embodied the Son . . . God did not become flesh, i.e. a human being --- Jesus became flesh, a human being.

The only way the only true, perfect God could pay for the sins of humanity is by entering this fallen world, putting on human flesh so that His perfect blood could be shed to redeem us. Jesus Christ created all things, so why is it so hard to grasp Him putting on human flesh?

How degrading to think Almighty God would become one of his created beings. Why would he want to become a human being? Did he lie when he said he gave his Son to redeem mankind? And if he gave his Son to carry out His plan of salvation WHY did God himself have to 'come in the flesh', become a human being? Makes no sense at all. If the Son is God who did he remain obedient to - God remained obedient to God???

Not degrading at all, but all the more showing just how powerful He is. Is anything impossible for the Lord?

Yes, because of Jesus' humbling himself and submitting his will to that of God his Father remaining in total obedience to the point of death on a cross ---- he has been highly exalted and seated at the right hand of God the Father and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.

I actually think it's way more degrading to assume that God is so limited, He has to create a mortal being to die on His behalf in order to save humanity? To send a mortal being, yet, take the credit as Saviour? Make that make sense, amazing.

 

[amazing grace]

All things throughout the Bible point to the Word, which is Jesus Christ. It's ALL about Him. Jesus knew humanity would desire to worship a name over Him.

Jesus Christ is the embodiment of God's word/God's wisdom. Who worships a name over Jesus Christ?

Let "us" make man in "our" image, after "our" likeness. Jesus, being the express image of God, came to make God known.
In the flesh, humanity resembles Jesus. God is spirit, Jesus was the physical manifestation of God.

Yes, God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Yes, Man is in the image of God and Jesus is the image of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. . . . . No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. . . . Yes, Jesus embodied the Word - he was the full expression of his Father and the express image of his Father and he came to declare or make known the Father.

An image is not the original . . . An image is a reflection, an image is like Abraham Lincoln on a penny. It is his likeness, his image but it is NOT ole Abe! It's the same with Jesus - He perfectly expressed God his Father in all he said and all he did but he is not God - He is God's Son. We are human beings and in the same manner, only without sin - Jesus was a human being - God is his God, God is his Father, God is our God and God is our Father. Jesus is our brother. Jesus is an heir of God - we are joint heirs with Christ.

The only way the only true, perfect God could pay for the sins of humanity is by entering this fallen world, putting on human flesh so that His perfect blood could be shed to redeem us. Jesus Christ created all things, so why is it so hard to grasp Him putting on human flesh?

Why would God pay himself for the sins of humanity?
WE owed God, WE owed the penalty for our sins . . . HUMANITY sinned against God therefore HUMANITY OWED GOD. A HUMAN BEING HAD TO PAY THE PRICE! A MORTAL CAPABLE OF SHEDDING BLOOD - CAPABLE OF DYING.
Jesus Christ was tempted in all things YET remained without sin - Jesus Christ suffered being tempted, tortured, mocked and ridiculed, despised and spit upon to pay for our sins and those of you who believe that he is God and had to be God - belittle all that he accomplished to become our Lord and Savior.
I'm sorry if that seems harsh but it breaks my heart that people do not honor the sacrifice that the man, Jesus of Nazareth, made for us. I just picture him in the Garden of Gethsemane before his arrest - not really wanting to die - asking if there was any other way yet submitted his will to that of his Father's . . . Our risen exalted Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

Not degrading at all, but all the more showing just how powerful He is. Is anything impossible for the Lord?

I actually think it's way more degrading to assume that God is so limited, He has to create a mortal being to die on His behalf in order to save humanity? To send a mortal being, yet, take the credit as Saviour? Make that make sense, amazing.

Well, he had to create His Son in the womb of Mary in order to GIVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to die on behalf of mankind. God is immortal - He cannot die for our sins so yep, his Son had to be a mortal being in order to die for our sins.
God did not sin against himself - humanity sinned against God. Humanity OWED God . . .

Romans 5

 

[Victoria]

Jesus Christ is the embodiment of God's word/God's wisdom. Who worships a name over Jesus Christ?

It's Jesus Christ speaking from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation. Hence, Him being the Word.
Jehovah was just one of His names.

Yes, God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Yes, Man is in the image of God and Jesus is the image of God.

Exactly, the image of His invisible Father, God the Son.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. . . . . No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. . . . Yes, Jesus embodied the Word - he was the full expression of his Father and the express image of his Father and he came to declare or make known the Father.

amazing, Jesus was the Word.

Jesus Christ fully represents and contains the entire essence of God, including all divine attributes, in a human form. This concept emphasizes that in Christ, the fullness of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit is present, & expressed bodily.

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail." Hebrews 1:8-12

An image is not the original . . . An image is a reflection, an image is like Abraham Lincoln on a penny. It is his likeness, his image but it is NOT ole Abe! It's the same with Jesus - He perfectly expressed God his Father in all he said and all he did but he is not God - He is God's Son. We are human beings and in the same manner, only without sin - Jesus was a human being - God is his God, God is his Father, God is our God and God is our Father. Jesus is our brother. Jesus is an heir of God - we are joint heirs with Christ.

'ole Abe I haven't heard that in a long while. I don't know why, but it always makes me giggle.

In order for God the Son to be made a little lower than the angels in order to shed His blood for our redemption,
how else could He do so w/out first putting on human flesh to make it possible?

However, no mortal created being could make such a statement as...

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:19

Why would God pay himself for the sins of humanity?
WE owed God, WE owed the penalty for our sins . . . HUMANITY sinned against God therefore HUMANITY OWED GOD. A HUMAN BEING HAD TO PAY THE PRICE! A MORTAL CAPABLE OF SHEDDING BLOOD - CAPABLE OF DYING.

I'm glad you asked this question.

Only God alone is perfect, would you agree?

Jesus willingly took on the punishment on behalf of humanity for sins out of love, & to demonstrate the seriousness of sin, & the depth of God's love. This act is seen as a way to reconcile humanity w/ God, rather than a punishment of God Himself.

A created mortal being cannot handle the wrath of God, & live, as God's wrath is a response to sin, & injustice, which is beyond human capacity to endure. God's holiness, & justice require a separation from sin, making it impossible for sinful beings to withstand His wrath w/out divine intervention.

 

[amazing grace]

It's Jesus Christ speaking from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation. Hence, Him being the Word.
Jehovah was just one of His names.

Where is 'Jehovah' said to be one of Jesus' names?

Exactly, the image of His invisible Father, God the Son.

Correct, but as said an image is NOT the original. No such phrase in scripture 'God the Son' . . . Jesus is the Son OF God.

amazing, Jesus was the Word.

I didn't deny that the word became flesh in the begotten Son of the Father. . . Jesus was not the 'WORD' in John 1:1 - the word did not become embodied in flesh at John 1:1 to read Jesus into that verse is eisegesis.

Jesus Christ fully represents and contains the entire essence of God, including all divine attributes, in a human form. This concept emphasizes that in Christ, the fullness of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit is present, & expressed bodily.

ALL of God's divine attributes? Jesus was not omnipotent, he was not omniscient, nor omnipresent. Jesus did fully represent his Father having all of his characteristics - love, longsuffering, gentleness, kindness, etc.

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail." Hebrews 1:8-12

Oh, look this Son to which he addressed as 'God' HAS A GOD, A GOD WHO IS CALLED HIS GOD who has anointed him!! (and you accuse me of having two 'gods')
Also a quote from the OT addressed to a human Davidic king . . . so I do not believe the Son is being called 'God' in the context of ALMIGHTY GOD.

'ole Abe I haven't heard that in a long while. I don't know why, but it always makes me giggle.

In order for God the Son to be made a little lower than the angels in order to shed His blood for our redemption,
how else could He do so w/out first putting on human flesh to make it possible?

God wasn't made a little lower than the angels, which in itself is ridiculous, BUT humanity was-----

However, no mortal created being could make such a statement as...

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:19

We should be hesitant to build a doctrine on this verse, especially when many other clear verses say that the Father raised Jesus. For example, 1 Corinthians 6:14 states: “By his power, God raised the Lord from the dead.” (Acts 2:24, 3:26, 4:10, 5:30; Romans 10:9; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 1:1, etc.)
Jesus knew that by his thoughts and actions he could guarantee his own resurrection by remaining sinless and obedient unto death. That made it legally possible for God to keep His promise of resurrecting Christ, who was without sin and therefore did not deserve death, the “wages of sin.”

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” His authority was in the promise from God his Father that his 'holy one would not see corruption' . . . Jesus had that control in his hands - if he remained sinless and obedient.

I'm glad you asked this question.

Only God alone is perfect, would you agree?

Jesus willingly took on the punishment on behalf of humanity for sins out of love, & to demonstrate the seriousness of sin, & the depth of God's love. This act is seen as a way to reconcile humanity w/ God, rather than a punishment of God Himself.

A created mortal being cannot handle the wrath of God, & live, as God's wrath is a response to sin, & injustice, which is beyond human capacity to endure. God's holiness, & justice require a separation from sin, making it impossible for sinful beings to withstand His wrath w/out divine intervention.

Jesus Christ - God's only begotten Son - was the Lamb of God without spot or blemish . . .
Jesus Christ made salvation perfect through his suffering therefore bringing many sons to glory. . . he learned obedience through what he suffered and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. . . .For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. . . . For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. . . For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. . . so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. . .[Romans 5]

I see nothing about God dying for us . . .

 

[Victoria]

Where is 'Jehovah' said to be one of Jesus' names?

I created a thread showing a long list of Jesus' names.

All The Names of Jesus

I didn't deny that the word became flesh in the begotten Son of the Father. . . Jesus was not the 'WORD' in John 1:1 - the word did not become embodied in flesh at John 1:1 to read Jesus into that verse is eisegesis.

Jehovah/Jesus, the King of Kings, & Lord of Lords...

Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Psalm 149:2

I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 43:15

Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe.
And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
Mark 15:32

And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
Luke 23:3

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God...
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:13; 15-16

 

[amazing grace]

I created a thread showing a long list of Jesus' names.

All The Names of Jesus

Jehovah/Jesus, the King of Kings, & Lord of Lords...

Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Psalm 149:2

I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 43:15

Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe.
And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
Mark 15:32

And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
Luke 23:3

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God...
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:13; 15-16

So, I think what you are doing is relating scripture in this manner - because the LORD God is called 'king and also king of kings' and then Christ is called 'king and also king of kings' they are one and the same? I disagree.
If you relate Jesus to being God because of these titles then you have to include Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:37) and Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:12) as being God for they also bear the title of king of kings.
Both God and Jesus are also called lord of lords - God in Psalm 136:3; in Deut. 10:17 and in 1 Timothy 6:15. Jesus in Rev. 17:14 where it's Jesus, the Lamb of God; and in Rev. 19:16 ----- I have no problem with God sharing His titles with whom he wants to - that is His prerogative.

Happy Thanksgiving.



Now, Joshua and Jesus are the same - they are both derived from the Hebrew Yeshua and mean 'Yahweh saves'.

 

[civic]

Can I ask YOU what is the problem with using God's name? LORD - Jehovah/Yahweh
I have no idea who 'Clarence Orvil Dodd, is nor what this movement is.

The Tetragrammaton is the four-letter Hebrew-language theonym יהוה‎ (transliterated as YHWH), the name of God in the Hebrew Bible. The four Hebrew letters, written and read from right to left, are yod, he, vav, and he. The name may be derived from a verb that means 'to be', 'to exist', 'to cause to become', or 'to come to pass'.

While there is no consensus about the structure and etymology of the name, the form Yahweh (with niqqud: יַהוֶה) is now almost universally accepted among Biblical and Semitic linguistics scholars, though the vocalization Jehovah continues to have wide usage, especially in Christian traditions. In modernity, Christianity is the only Abrahamic religion in which the Tetragrammaton is freely and openly pronounced. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton)

Yes Lord is YHWH and Christ is that One Lord- the Only Lord.

See 1 Corinthians 8:6, Jude 1:4, Ephesians 4:5, Romans 10:12- the only Lord,One Lord that must be confessed to be saved.

1 Cor 8:6
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Eph 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism

Rom 10:9-13
1 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Jude 4
and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Conclusion: Paul above in Romans declares Christ is the One Lord in the OT a person must confess to be saved y quoting Joel 2:32 ( YHWH ) is that Lord whom Paul identified as Christ. Calling on the Lord for salvation above is calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in Romans and 1 Corinthians. It's the same ONE LORD.

hope this helps !!!

 

[amazing grace]

Yes Lord is YHWH and Christ is that One Lord- the Only Lord.

See 1 Corinthians 8:6, Jude 1:4, Ephesians 4:5, Romans 10:12- the only Lord,One Lord that must be confessed to be saved.

1 Cor 8:6
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

one God who is the Father; and one Lord, who is Jesus Christ . . . clearly two distinct individual persons.

Eph 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism

yep, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all . . . again distinguishes the one God and Father from the one Lord. -- clearly two distinct individual persons.

Rom 10:9-13
1 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Yep, and no one comes to the Father except through that one Lord, Jesus Christ. I have no problem with God sharing His titles with whom he wants to - that is His prerogative.

1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Yep, there is power in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

Jude 4
and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

yep, even the early apostles had problems: For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. ----- perverting the grace of our God and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ

Conclusion: Paul above in Romans declares Christ is the One Lord in the OT a person must confess to be saved y quoting Joel 2:32 ( YHWH ) is that Lord whom Paul identified as Christ. Calling on the Lord for salvation above is calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in Romans and 1 Corinthians. It's the same ONE LORD.

hope this helps !!!

Conclusion: Actually no, Paul that is not what Paul is declaring at all. Paul knew and clearly spoke of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ as being single persons clearly distinguishing them from each other, not God and Jesus collapsed into one single person, clearly distinguishing them from each other --- Again, I have no problem with God sharing His titles with whom he wants to - that is His prerogative.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[civic]

one God who is the Father; and one Lord, who is Jesus Christ . . . clearly two distinct individual persons.

yep, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all . . . again distinguishes the one God and Father from the one Lord. -- clearly two distinct individual persons.

Yep, and no one comes to the Father except through that one Lord, Jesus Christ. I have no problem with God sharing His titles with whom he wants to - that is His prerogative.

Yep, there is power in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

yep, even the early apostles had problems: For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. ----- perverting the grace of our God and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ

Conclusion: Actually no, Paul that is not what Paul is declaring at all. Paul knew and clearly spoke of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ as being single persons clearly distinguishing them from each other, not God and Jesus collapsed into one single person, clearly distinguishing them from each other --- Again, I have no problem with God sharing His titles with whom he wants to - that is His prerogative.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks for admitting the Lord is the Son in all of the bible which includes the O.T. He is the One Lord.

Amen !

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Victoria]

So, I think what you are doing is relating scripture in this manner - because the LORD God is called 'king and also king of kings' and then Christ is called 'king and also king of kings' they are one and the same? I disagree.
If you relate Jesus to being God because of these titles then you have to include Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:37) and Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:12) as being God for they also bear the title of king of kings.
Both God and Jesus are also called lord of lords - God in Psalm 136:3; in Deut. 10:17 and in 1 Timothy 6:15. Jesus in Rev. 17:14 where it's Jesus, the Lamb of God; and in Rev. 19:16 ----- I have no problem with God sharing His titles with whom he wants to - that is His prerogative.

I only worship one God, not two.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanksgiving again!

Now, Joshua and Jesus are the same - they are both derived from the Hebrew Yeshua and mean 'Yahweh saves'.

I prefer the names Jesus, & Jehovah. It's fine if Yeshua, & Yahweh works for you.

 

[Victoria]

Thanks for admitting the Lord is the Son in all of the bible which includes the O.T. He is the One Lord.

Amen !

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Ephesians 4:5-6

Amen!

I hope you, & yours had a lovely Thanksgiving, civic

 

[amazing grace]

I only worship one God, not two.

Happy Thanksgiving again!

I prefer the names Jesus, & Jehovah. It's fine if Yeshua, & Yahweh works for you.

I only worship one God also . . . not three as one. Not a Tritheism that I try to pull off as a monotheism.
Jesus name is NOT Yahweh nor Jehovah . . . . Joshua and Jesus share the same name in Hebrew which is 'Yeshua'. It IS NOT Yahweh's name - it MEANS "Yahweh saves".

Jesus Christ or Jesus the Messiah or just Messiah works for me - since that's who he is!

 

[Victoria]

I only worship one God also . . . not three as one. Not a Tritheism that I try to pull off as a monotheism.
Jesus name is NOT Yahweh nor Jehovah . . . . Joshua and Jesus share the same name in Hebrew which is 'Yeshua'. It IS NOT Yahweh's name - it MEANS "Yahweh saves".

Jesus Christ or Jesus the Messiah or just Messiah works for me - since that's who he is!

We can therefore just agree to disagree respectfully at this point b/c the Unitarian argument is circular in reasoning, which gets neither of us anywhere. You choose to willfully ignore what the words on the pages clearly teach.

Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty in orthodox Christianity.