Unraveling the confusion of God’s Decree: 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

atpollard said:
I agree. Romans 1 speaks of men choosing to refuse to honor Him as God. John 3 speaks of men choosing to refuse to come to the light. It is men choosing to save themselves that is in short supply … hence verses about “new hearts” (Ezekiel 36) and the Father “giving” and ”drawing” (John 6) and “dead made alive” through a “free gift” (Ephesians 2).
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Repeating false claims doesn't magically make them true....

Yes. Men make bad choices. You're obviously proof that happens since you are making bad choices yourself. That truth doesn't require everything make that same bad choice.

Man can not save himself. His choice is powerless. It is God that saves.
 
atpollard said:
I agree. Romans 1 speaks of men choosing to refuse to honor Him as God. John 3 speaks of men choosing to refuse to come to the light.
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And those men of course were men of whom Christ died for, for they all were a part of the world to of which God loved.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

To @The Rogue Tomato using your words, if there were any scripture that should not be open to interpretation because it's as plain and straightforward as one can get it should be this one.
 
Rockson said:
And those men of course were men of whom Christ died for, for they all were a part of the world to of which God loved.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

To @The Rogue Tomato using your words, if there were any scripture that should not be open to interpretation because it's as plain and straightforward as one can get it should be this one.
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Have you read William Tyndale's view on "the world"? (HINT: Not "all without exception" or "all without distinction".)

Who is "whosoever believeth in him"?
  • John 10: 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
"My father gave them me" is the key difference between BEING "not of my sheep" and BEING "my sheep".
"not of my sheep" do not believe BECAUSE they are not "my sheep" (given by the Father).
"my sheep" believe BECAUSE they are "my sheep" (given by the Father).

Therein lies the secret revealed of "whosoever believeth in him" ... from the same author just a little later in the book.

“The one who has ears to hear, let him hear."
(That means READ the scripture and pay attention to what GOD actually said.)
 
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atpollard said:
Have you read William Tyndale's view on "the world"? (HINT: Not "all without exception" or "all without distinction".)

Who is "whosoever believeth in him"?
  • John 10: 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
"My father gave them me" is the key difference between BEING "not of my sheep" and BEING "my sheep".
"not of my sheep" do not believe BECAUSE they are not "my sheep" (given by the Father).
"my sheep" believe BECAUSE they are "my sheep" (given by the Father).

Therein lies the secret revealed of "whosoever believeth in him" ... from the same author just a little later in the book.

“The one who has ears to hear, let him hear."
(That means READ the scripture and pay attention to what GOD actually said.)
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Got to love the disconnect here....

Jesus has his disciples with them and He is standing in front of a group of Pharisees claiming salvation in Moses.....

"My sheep hear my voice" is easily understood in this simple context. Jesus was appealing to an event that had already taken place among His disciples. Not some limited future event.

It is amazing how disconnected Calvinism is from reality.
 
atpollard said:
Have you read William Tyndale's view on "the world"? (HINT: Not "all without exception" or "all without distinction".)

Who is "whosoever believeth in him"?
  • John 10: 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
"My father gave them me" is the key difference between BEING "not of my sheep" and BEING "my sheep".
"not of my sheep" do not believe BECAUSE they are not "my sheep" (given by the Father).
"my sheep" believe BECAUSE they are "my sheep" (given by the Father).

Therein lies the secret revealed of "whosoever believeth in him" ... from the same author just a little later in the book.

“The one who has ears to hear, let him hear."
(That means READ the scripture and pay attention to what GOD actually said.)
Click to expand...
Have you read any lexicon on the world ( cosmos ) ? Or Jesus and the Apostles ?

These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception.

Thayers

Cosmos: the inhabitants of the

5. world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Summary : Its this world above all the ungodly whom Christ does for , all the world and everyone in that world without exception. Its all the inhabitants of the world(everyone ), the ungodly multitude, all mankind. That is what the Biblical Greek Lexicons define world as for whom Christ died and made atonement for in the bible.

continued below :
 
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continued: @atpollard @The Rogue Tomato

1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone with no exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John.

Only someone with a closed mind trapped in their dogma/doctrine( only exists in Calvinism ) would argue otherwise resulting in eisegesis( reading their own ideas into the text) rather than exegesis ( letting the text dictate ones ideas ).

We see above that the whole world lies under the evil one and its that same identical whole world in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus made PROPITIATION for which is clear from the CONTEXT in 1 John.

So if the above truth from 1 John 2:2 which is clear as to the biblical meaning is all inclusive not exclusive ( Gods elect Jew/Gentiles) which comes from ones dogma/doctrine ( calvinism) and not Scripture and specifically in 1 John.

I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma, never the doctrines of men, never to win friends, but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context. And the context here is in clear opposition to the teaching of Calvinsm in 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation. Doctrine/Dogma will never cloud my mind and I will seek, search truth until my dying day and never allow any systematic theology( calvinism ) or bias to cloud my view of Scripture.

hope this helps !!!
 
and there is more :)

love from thayers lexicon

ἀγαπάω, (ῶ; (imperfect ἠγάπων); future ἀγαπήσω; 1 aorist ἠγάπησα; perfect active (1 person plural ἠγαπήκαμεν, 1 John 4:10 WH text), participle ἠγαπηκῶς (2 Timothy 4:8); passive (present ἀγαπῶμαι); perfect participle ἠγαπημένος; 1 future ἀγαπηθήσομαι; (akin to ἄγαμαι (Fick, Part 4:12; see ἀγαθός, at the beginning)); to love, to be full of good-will and exhibit the same: Luke 7:47; 1 John 4:7f; with the accusative of the person, to have a preference for, wish well to, regard the welfare of: Matthew 5:43ff; Matthew 19:19; Luke 7:5; John 11:5; Romans 13:8; 2 Corinthians 11:11; 2 Corinthians 12:15; Galatians 5:14; Ephesians 5:25, 28; 1 Peter 1:22, and elsewhere; used often in the First Epistle of John of the love of Christians toward one another; of the benevolence which God, in providing salvation for men, has exhibited by sending his Son to them and giving him up to death, John 3:16;

Barnes' Notes on the Bible- a Calvinist :)
For God so loved - This does not mean that God approved the conduct of men, but that he had benevolent feelings toward them, or was "earnestly desirous" of their happiness. God hates wickedness, but he still desires the Happiness of those who are sinful. "He hates the sin, but loves the sinner." A parent may love his child and desire his welfare, and yet be strongly opposed to the conduct of that child. When we approve the conduct of another, this is the love of complacency; when we desire simply their happiness, this is the love of benevolence.
The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:

1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.

2. All people were in a hopeless condition.

3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.

4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.

5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.

That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.

and calvin said this about the world Jesus died for in John 3:16

" because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish "

" And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life "

" The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded "

John 3 Calvin's Commentaries

literal meaning:

For God so loved ( was full of good will, benevolence ) the world ( the inhabitants of the world, the human race ) that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever( universally for everyone: calvin ) believes in Him shall not persish but have everlasting life.

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47. 5B

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

which references several key passages- John 3:17, 17; 6:51; 12:47


1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone not exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John. Its this love for the world ( for God so loved the world ) that He gave His only Son for them.

Truth is a beautiful thing just like Gods love is for the entire world- its a beautiful thing to see woven through the Bible.

hope this helps !!!
 
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atpollard said:
1689BCF: From all eternity God decreed everything that occurs, without reference to anything outside himself.
Scripture:
  • Isaiah 46:8-11 [NKJV]
    • “Remember this, and show yourselves men;
      Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
      Remember the former things of old,
      For I am God, and there is no other;
      I am God, and there is none like Me,
      Declaring the end from the beginning,
      And from ancient times things that are not yet done      ,
      Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
      And I will do all My pleasure,      ’
      Calling a bird of prey from the east,
      The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
      Indeed I have spoken it;
      I will also bring it to pass.
      I have purposed it;
      I will also do it      .
  • Ephesians 1:11-12 [NKJV] In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
  • Hebrews 6:13-18 [NKJV] For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.” And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.
  • Romans 9:14-18 [NKJV] What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
So let us examine the truth of the Decree of God:
  1. Was it from all eternity?
    • Isaiah 46: “from the beginning” & “from ancient times”
  2. Does God decree EVERYTHING that occurs?
    • Isaiah 46: “I will do all my pleasure”; Ephesians 1: “who works all things according to the council of His will”
  3. Does it reference anything outside Himself?
    • Isaiah 46: “My council shall stand”; Ephesians 1: “according to the purpose of Him” & “council of His will”; Hebrews 6: “His council”; Romans 9: “whom He wills”
Can we accept the TRUTH of Scripture: “From all eternity God decreed everything that occurs, without reference to anything outside himself.”? If not, which scripture are we challenging?
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Baptist[edit]​

Some of the Baptist churches came alongside the Puritan movement in England, and in doing so sought to agree as far as conscience allowed, in the Calvinistic form of doctrine which prevailed among the Presbyterians and many Congregationalists. Except for their few exceptions concerning congregational church governance and adult baptism, these "Particular" Baptists adopted the Calvinist faith.


I rest my case as the proof is in the puddin. I'm 100% correct that its CALVIN to the Core with the doctrines of grace (tulip)
 
civic said:
Have you read any lexicon on the world ( cosmos ) ? Or Jesus and the Apostles ?
Click to expand...
Point of Clarification:
  • Are you asking me if I have looked up "Jesus" in a lexicon? [No, I admit I have not ... I think it means "God Saves" or something close to that.]
  • Are you asking me if I have looked up "the Apostles" in a lexicon? [Yes, I have and IIRC from it means "sent".]
  • Are you asking me if Jesus and the Apostles have looked up the word "cosmos" in a lexicon? [I have no idea, but probably not.]
I do not see what possible bearing that might have on what William Tyndale believed ... [shrug] ... will my reading a lexicon change the writings of a dead man?
 
civic said:
These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception.
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I will take that as a "NO", you have not read William Tyndale's views on "the world". Tyndale disagreed with both "All without exception" and "Some from every nation, tribe and tongue". I only mentioned it because it was a unique view that I recently came across and was curious if anyone else was familiar with it.

Tyndale believed that God intended one of the other definitions of "cosmos" in John 3.
 
civic said:
The Confession of Faith (1689), also known as the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith,[1][2] or the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith (to distinguish it from the 1644 London Baptist Confession of Faith), is a Particular Baptist confession of faith. It was written by English Baptists who subscribed to a Calvinistic soteriology as well as to a covenantal (yet non-Westminsterian) systematic theology.
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Oh my goodness, how could such a thing happen! @civic made an entire post without misrepresenting the facts of Calvinism. The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith WAS written by Particular Baptists who DO BELIEVE in a Calvinist Soteriology and DO REJECT Westminter systematic Theology!

If only this TOPIC was created to discuss SOTERIOLOGY, but alas, it was created to discuss the THEOLOGY of God's Decree (is God in control). Unfortunately @civic demanded that it be dragged kicking and screaming off my theological topic and onto his "TULIP is UNBIBLICAL" screed (like all other topics).

So here we are.
 
atpollard said:
Oh my goodness, how could such a thing happen! @civic made an entire post without misrepresenting the facts of Calvinism. The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith WAS written by Particular Baptists who DO BELIEVE in a Calvinist Soteriology and DO REJECT Westminter systematic Theology!

If only this TOPIC was created to discuss SOTERIOLOGY, but alas, it was created to discuss the THEOLOGY of God's Decree (is God in control). Unfortunately @civic demanded that it be dragged kicking and screaming off my theological topic and onto his "TULIP is UNBIBLICAL" screed (like all other topics).

So here we are.
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... Retracted. I misread the comment. My apology.
 
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atpollard said:
Point of Clarification:
  • Are you asking me if I have looked up "Jesus" in a lexicon? [No, I admit I have not ... I think it means "God Saves" or something close to that.]
  • Are you asking me if I have looked up "the Apostles" in a lexicon? [Yes, I have and IIRC from it means "sent".]
  • Are you asking me if Jesus and the Apostles have looked up the word "cosmos" in a lexicon? [I have no idea, but probably not.]
I do not see what possible bearing that might have on what William Tyndale believed ... [shrug] ... will my reading a lexicon change the writings of a dead man?
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nice try and a big swing and a miss.

I was clear about the word cosmos (world ) and the word love which I provided and refutes your calvinistic theology in both cases. :)
 
atpollard said:
Oh my goodness, how could such a thing happen! @civic made an entire post without misrepresenting the facts of Calvinism. The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith WAS written by Particular Baptists who DO BELIEVE in a Calvinist Soteriology and DO REJECT Westminter systematic Theology!

If only this TOPIC was created to discuss SOTERIOLOGY, but alas, it was created to discuss the THEOLOGY of God's Decree (is God in control). Unfortunately @civic demanded that it be dragged kicking and screaming off my theological topic and onto his "TULIP is UNBIBLICAL" screed (like all other topics).

So here we are.
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try reading instead of equivocating. I bolded the CALVINIST SOTERIOLOGY which translated means TULIP- the doctrines of grace.

next........

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
nice try and a big swing and a miss.

I was clear about the word cosmos (world )
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Ummm ... half truth.
This (below) was clear (and I probably should have deleted it from the quote, but the two halves seemed to go together ... somehow).
civic said:
Have you read any lexicon on the world ( cosmos ) ?
Click to expand...

... and this (below) was definitely unclear and what I was asking for clarification on.
civic said:
Or Jesus and the Apostles ?
Click to expand...
[I will note, you never provided the requested clarification, so I still have no clue what "Or Jesus and the Apostles" has to do with Tyndale or reading "cosmos" in a lexicon.]


Moving on ...
civic said:
and the word love which I provided and refutes your calvinistic theology in both cases. :)
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Which would be more impressive if I had presented "Calvinistic Theology" instead of asking a question ...
atpollard said:
Who is "whosoever believeth in him"?
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... that remained unanswered.
As a rule, you really don't answer questions, do you?
You just quote pages of text from Lexicons and Commentaries to refute a single paragraph of Scripture without ever actually addressing that particular scripture. [It seems an almost Pavlovian response.] ;)
 

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Josephus’ Account of Cyrus’ Decree
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Early Church Creed rejects the main tenant of Calvinism
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