Unraveling the confusion of God’s Decree: 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

[civic]

OK, y'all win.


Clearly NOBODY wants to discuss God's Decree.
You all just want to post "Calvinism is EVIL" and "TULIP is unbiblical".

Have at it. Even POSTING SCRIPTURE cannot entice you out of your petty diatribes and into a conversation. I shake the dust off.

its been discussed and refuted in this thread.

@Rockson and @praise_yeshua and myself all addressed it in this thread. This is just another failed attempt on your part since the divine decree in the confession was shown to be unbiblical.

 

[Rockson]

Romans 9 "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” was included in support of the idea of "without reference to anything outside himself". Within this context (Chapter 3 of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith) the topic is "God's Decree". It is irrelevant who Romans 9 is referring to in this context ... for the sake of argument, God could be speaking exclusively of Paul's Irish Setters. What is relevant is that the decision to show mercy is predicated on "I will" [God] and not the object of the mercy or some circumstances or even just the need of the events.

Sorry atpollard but that's absolute rubbish. I'd hope you'd recognize that and sooner rather than later pull out of it.

So let me ask you this. If I in many places told people who I'd show mercy to and someone challenged me on it (if I were God) why wouldn't I say I'll show mercy to whoever I want to give it. Does that do away with my stipulations on who I said before I'd give mercy too? Of course not. (more could be said)

 

[civic]

Sorry atpollard but that's absolute rubbish. I'd hope you'd recognize that and sooner rather than later pull out of it.

So let me ask you this. If I in many places told people who I'd show mercy to and someone challenged me on it (if I were God) why wouldn't I say I'll show mercy to whoever I want to give it. Does that do away with my stipulations on who I said before I'd give mercy too? Of course not. (more could be said)

That verse is used by every single calvinist to support U.E in tulip. When challenged on it in the OP it was avoided like the plague. In calvinism Gods decree and U.E. go hand in hand together. You cannot have one without the other. They both stand and fall together as a unit.

 

[Rockson]

OK, y'all win.


Clearly NOBODY wants to discuss God's Decree.
You all just want to post "Calvinism is EVIL" and "TULIP is unbiblical".

Have at it. Even POSTING SCRIPTURE cannot entice you out of your petty diatribes and into a conversation. I shake the dust off.

My friend you've posted scripture with your interpretation but it seems you don't build a case as to why your interpretation is valid. You might want to consider being open to at least rebuttals to your position. Anyway God Bless!

 

[praise_yeshua]

its been discussed and refuted in this thread.

@Rockson and @praise_yeshua and myself all addressed it in this thread. This is just another failed attempt on your part since the divine decree in the confession was shown to be unbiblical.

I don't know the times that I've heard Calvinists contradict themselves without any sense of it happening.

When it comes to "predestination" of all things.... they just can't help it. I had a Calvinist tell me one that He believed that God would seek to prosper Him no matter what He chose.....

I simply asked him how that works within "Predestination"..... All I got was silence. There is no telling how long he actually believed this.

The problem with believing false information is clear. You just can't remember what falsehood you told last. That is why those that find an "anchor" in the Truth.... don't have to worry about contradicting themselves. Truth doesn't change.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

My friend you've posted scripture with your interpretation but it seems you don't build a case as to why your interpretation is valid. You might want to consider being open to at least rebuttals to your position. Anyway God Bless!

The scripture he quoted is not open to interpretation. It's as plain and straightforward as you can get. Only eisegesis can produce an alternative explanation.

 

[praise_yeshua]

OK, y'all win.


Clearly NOBODY wants to discuss God's Decree.
You all just want to post "Calvinism is EVIL" and "TULIP is unbiblical".

Have at it. Even POSTING SCRIPTURE cannot entice you out of your petty diatribes and into a conversation. I shake the dust off.

"NOBODY"? what kind of exaggeration is this?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The scripture he quoted is not open to interpretation. It's as plain and straightforward as you can get. Only eisegesis can produce an alternative explanation.

He posted several, what are you referencing?

 

[Rockson]

The scripture he quoted is not open to interpretation. It's as plain and straightforward as you can get. Only eisegesis can produce an alternative explanation.

Like another has asked.....which one?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

All of it. But especially:

• Isaiah 46:8-11 [NKJV]
  • “Remember this, and show yourselves men;
    Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
    Remember the former things of old,
    For I am God, and there is no other;
    I am God, and there is none like Me,
    Declaring the end from the beginning,
    And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
    Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
    And I will do all My pleasure,’
    Calling a bird of prey from the east,
    The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
    Indeed I have spoken it;
    I will also bring it to pass.
    I have purposed it;
    I will also do it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

All of it. But especially:

• Isaiah 46:8-11 [NKJV]
  • “Remember this, and show yourselves men;
    Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
    Remember the former things of old,
    For I am God, and there is no other;
    I am God, and there is none like Me,
    Declaring the end from the beginning,
    And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
    Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
    And I will do all My pleasure,’
    Calling a bird of prey from the east,
    The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
    Indeed I have spoken it;
    I will also bring it to pass.
    I have purposed it;
    I will also do it.

I don't read a single word that establishes that God has preordained all things. I see that God purposes and brings about His desires. Calvin didn't know God enough to actually know what God purposed. You insist that I accept what you and Calvin said this means. I can read it myself and understand what God said. At best, and is actually what I believe, God preordained some things... not all things. Certainly not my choices nor your choices. Not my sin nor your sin.

Such arguments remind of a little child that insists their Father told them they could have all the cookies they want because the Father said he had made some cookies. We know that isn't true.

 

[civic]

I don't read a single word that establishes that God has preordained all things. I see that God purposes and brings about His desires. Calvin didn't know God enough to actually know what God purposed. You insist that I accept what you and Calvin said this means. I can read it myself and understand what God said. At best, and is actually what I believe, God preordained some things... not all things. Certainly not my choices nor your choices. Not my sin nor your sin.

Such arguments remind of a little child that insists their Father told them they could have all the cookies they want because the Father said he had made some cookies. We know that isn't true.

It’s called eisegesis quoting that passage assuming meticulous divine determinism

 

[atpollard]

It’s called eisegesis quoting that passage assuming meticulous divine determinism

What is it called when you read that as a Free Willie and say:

Isaiah 46:8-11 [NKJV]

• “Remember this, and show yourselves men;
  Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
  Remember the former things of old,
  For I am God, and there is no other;
  I am God, and there is none like Me,
  [NOT] Declaring the end from the beginning,
  And from ancient times things that are not yet done [God hopes men will choose to do],
  Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, [if men exercise their free will and agree]
  And I will do all My pleasure,’[what I can and trust in free will and luck for the rest]
  Calling a bird of prey from the east,
  The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.Indeed I have spoken it; [and I have crossed my fingers]
  I will also [Men may of their own free will] bring it to pass.
  I have purposed it;
  I will also [ask men to] do it [and hope for success].

Denying the Word of God?

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[civic]

What is it called when you read that as a Free Willie and say:

Isaiah 46:8-11 [NKJV]

• “Remember this, and show yourselves men;
  Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
  Remember the former things of old,
  For I am God, and there is no other;
  I am God, and there is none like Me,
  [NOT] Declaring the end from the beginning,
  And from ancient times things that are not yet done [God hopes men will choose to do],
  Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, [if men exercise their free will and agree]
  And I will do all My pleasure,’[what I can and trust in free will and luck for the rest]
  Calling a bird of prey from the east,
  The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.Indeed I have spoken it; [and I have crossed my fingers]
  I will also [Men may of their own free will] bring it to pass.
  I have purposed it;
  I will also [ask men to] do it [and hope for success].

Denying the Word of God?

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Just your interpretation which boils down to Calvin’s fatalism

 

[atpollard]

Just your interpretation which boils down to Calvin’s fatalism

That was NOT Calvinism, that was FREE WILL. Read it again … it was all about MEN CHOOSING rather than GOD CHOOSING … YOU are the one that champions MEN CHOOSING, not Scripture, me or John Calvin.

 

[Rockson]

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Please atpollard don't make us have to resort to such large print in order to compete with you. You do know we could do that too right?

 

[atpollard]

Please atpollard don't make us have to resort to such large print in order to compete with you. You do know we could do that too right?

My large print was important “words of God” (I know quoting Scripture is something unfamiliar to you, I have read your arguments in this topic). Your large print was your opinion (something very frequently found as the substance of your arguments).

Do what you have to do. I will continue to call your attention to the Words of God when I base a post upon them.

 

[civic]

That was NOT Calvinism, that was FREE WILL. Read it again … it was all about MEN CHOOSING rather than GOD CHOOSING … YOU are the one that champions MEN CHOOSING, not Scripture, me or John Calvin.

Men choose all the time and God/Christ in both testaments asks men all the time to choose Him.

 

[Rockson]

My large print was important “words of God”

Very well. Do as you please.

 

[atpollard]

Men choose all the time and God/Christ in both testaments asks men all the time to choose Him.

I agree. Romans 1 speaks of men choosing to refuse to honor Him as God. John 3 speaks of men choosing to refuse to come to the light. It is men choosing to save themselves that is in short supply … hence verses about “new hearts” (Ezekiel 36) and the Father “giving” and ”drawing” (John 6) and “dead made alive” through a “free gift” (Ephesians 2).