Trinitarian Training

[mikesw]

I was thinking it could have been nice to just have a trinitarian lesson without the distractions or apologetics that could happen elsewhere. maybe there is an area like resources or like the one-on-none debate area. haha

 

[civic]

It's always hilarious whenever unitarians ignorantly and shamelessly promote John 17:3 as a unitarian verse. Each component of that verse radiates the Deity of the Jesus.

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

“That they may know You…”:
Eternal life is found in a singular "You" who the verse goes on to explain is both the Father and the Son, not in dividing the Deity of the Father from the Son as unitarians shamelessly do. It is manifestly clear that that "there is salvation in no other One.." other than Jesus (Acts 4:12) which proves again that Jesus is God because only God is the Savior (Isa 43:11).

“…the only true God, and Jesus Christ”
There is no mention here that only the Father is the only true God, as unitarians always attempt to dupe everyone into believing. That would directly contradict John 1:1c where it is explicitly mentioned that “the Word was God.” John’s Gospel never restricts Deity to the Father alone; rather, it reveals the Son as fully divine and distinct in person yet one in essence (cf. John 10:30, 20:28), proving Jesus is God. It is also manifestly ridiculous to say that the universe was created through a "personification". It's time that unitarians grew up from that kindergarten fairy tale view of things.

“…whom You have sent.”
The term “sent” (ἀπέστειλας) refers to the mission of the pre-existent Word. John 1:1–2 already affirms this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [πρὸς τὸν Θεόν — face to face with God].” This face-to-face relationship signifies distinct Personhood within the unity of God - the same Person who pre-existed and was sent to the world by God. This is confirmed by the following verses:

• John 3:17 – “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
• John 6:38 – “I have come down from heaven, not to do My will but the will of Him who sent Me.”
• John 8:42 – “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”
• John 16:28 – “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Each one of these verses shows that the sending involves a Personal Pre-Existence. The Son comes from the Father’s presence, not from creation.

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming!

Exactly brother - TRUTH prevails once again. They deny He alone is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

They are missing Him on all 3 accounts.

 

[mikesw]

I read John 1 differently then what this would suggest.

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I do not see this as "the Son is a later designation or revelation."

I basically meant that the use of Logos expresses a a functional identity without a name but then gets identified as the Son and Jesus even within the same passage. In the Old Testament we see him identified as the Word and Angel of the Lord. Both those concepts convey the idea of the message of God going to humans. There is no unique designation as one of the powers in heaven (where I allude to the Jewish recognition of Two Powers in Heaven by Segal). The unique designations begins to appear in the New Testament.

 

[Runningman]

Here Jesus is calling His disciples to the same level of absolute belief in Him that they have in God - an act that would be idolatrous if He were not truly God (Jer 17:5-7).

John 5:24 is a perfectly Trinitarian verse in that we need to believe both the Father and Jesus to have eternal life. That’s because eternal life comes only from God (Isaiah 43:11) and only from Jesus (Acts 4:12), which makes Jesus God.

As usual, you did not address any of the points I made about John 17:3 but ran away from them as fast as your little legs can carry you. Here are my points again. Either you address them or it's automatically Case Closed:

Each component of John 17:3 radiates the Deity of the Jesus:

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

“That they may know You…”:
Eternal life is found in a singular "You" who the verse goes on to explain is both the Father and the Son, not in dividing the Deity of the Father from the Son as unitarians shamelessly do. It is manifestly clear that that "there is salvation in no other One.." other than Jesus (Acts 4:12) which proves again that Jesus is God because only God is the Savior (Isa 43:11).

“…the only true God, and Jesus Christ”
There is no mention here that only the Father is the only true God, as unitarians always attempt to dupe everyone into believing. That would directly contradict John 1:1c where it is explicitly mentioned that “the Word was God.” John’s Gospel never restricts Deity to the Father alone; rather, it reveals the Son as fully divine and distinct in person yet one in essence (cf. John 10:30, 20:28), proving Jesus is God. It is also manifestly ridiculous to say that the universe was created through a "personification". It's time that unitarians grew up from that kindergarten fairy tale view of things.

“…whom You have sent.”
The term “sent” (ἀπέστειλας) refers to the mission of the pre-existent Word. John 1:1–2 already affirms this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [πρὸς τὸν Θεόν — face to face with God].” This face-to-face relationship signifies distinct Personhood within the unity of God - the same Person who pre-existed and was sent to the world by God. This is confirmed by the following verses:

• John 3:17 – “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
• John 6:38 – “I have come down from heaven, not to do My will but the will of Him who sent Me.”
• John 8:42 – “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”
• John 16:28 – “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Each one of these verses shows that the sending involves a Personal Pre-Existence. The Son comes from the Father’s presence, not from creation.

What happened was you got debunked. I quoted John 14:1 because it proves that belief in Jesus is not equal to belief in God. You're making the same error all trinitarians make. You think if you argue enough you can change what the Bible says. Then you repeat the same debunked talking points as if you didn't realize you just suffered a humiliating public defeat, again.

Read this slowly. Do you agree with the below statement yes or no?

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

 

[synergy]

What happened was you got debunked. I quoted John 14:1 because it proves that belief in Jesus is not equal to belief in God. You're making the same error all trinitarians make. You think if you argue enough you can change what the Bible says. Then you repeat the same debunked talking points as if you didn't realize you just suffered a humiliating public defeat, again.

Read this slowly. Do you agree with the below statement yes or no?

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Of course Trinitarians agree with and believe John 14:1 and the rest of the Bible for that matter. I already addressed how that verse makes Unitarians idolators.

Listen, we're not like unitarians that run away as fast as their little legs can carry them from entire Bible Chapters such as John 1. As I told you before, if you cannot offer any counterargument then it is Case Closed. You offered nothing except a baseless "you got debunked" feeble whimper, which is laughable at best. So that is where we stand.

 

[civic]

Of course Trinitarians agree with and believe John 14:1 and the rest of the Bible for that matter. I already addressed how that verse makes Unitarians idolators.

Listen, we're not like unitarians that run away as fast as their little legs can carry them from entire Bible Chapters such as John 1. As I told you before, if you cannot offer any counterargument then it is Case Closed. You offered nothing except a baseless "you got debunked" feeble whimper, which is laughable at best. So that is where we stand.

Uni’s don’t understand John 14:1 is the Sons declaration of equality with the Father just the same as in John 17:3.

 

[synergy]

Uni’s don’t understand John 14:1 is the Sons declaration of equality with the Father just the same as in John 17:3.

Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1. That makes Unitarians idolators through and through.

@Runningman continues to help the Trinitarian cause.

 

[amazing grace]

Of course Trinitarians agree with and believe John 14:1 and the rest of the Bible for that matter. I already addressed how that verse makes Unitarians idolators.

Listen, we're not like unitarians that run away as fast as their little legs can carry them from entire Bible Chapters such as John 1. As I told you before, if you cannot offer any counterargument then it is Case Closed. You offered nothing except a baseless "you got debunked" feeble whimper, which is laughable at best. So that is where we stand.

Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1. That makes Unitarians idolators through and through.

@Runningman continues to help the Trinitarian cause.

John 1:14 - Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe ALSO in me. . . .

There are two people here - God and Jesus. Jesus is asking us to believe in God and additionally to believe in him.
ALSO means ADDITIONALLY, IN ADDITION, AS WELL.

Rut Roh . . . believe in God and in addition believe Jesus is God? I don't think so. I believe that would add up to two that are 'god' which would be considered idolatry.

 

[FreeInChrist]

John 1:14 - Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe ALSO in me. . . .

There are two people here - God and Jesus. Jesus is asking us to believe in God and additionally to believe in him.
ALSO means ADDITIONALLY, IN ADDITION, AS WELL.

Rut Roh . . . believe in God and in addition believe Jesus is God? I don't think so. I believe that would add up to two that are 'god' which would be considered idolatry.

GOD IN 3 PERSONS

 

[civic]

GOD IN 3 PERSONS

Amen and He ( God the Word, Son ) was not going to leave them as orphans ( without God ) meaning He was leaving and going to send Another in His place that would be with them and in them- the Holy Spirit of promise who is God and also kown as the Comforter, Paraclete. These Three are One. The Blessed Trinity.

In John 14 God the Son is comforting His disciples about leaving them physically at His Ascension.

hope this helps !!!

 

[amazing grace]

GOD IN 3 PERSONS

Where's the 3rd person in John 14:1?

synergy used that verse to prove that we are to believe in God as well as believe that Jesus is God.

I quote from synergy: Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1.

I just pointed out the verse says - You believe in God believe ALSO in me. #1 - We are to believe in God and in addition believe that (#2) Jesus is God . . . there's no mistaking what one would take away from that rendering = two gods.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Where's the 3rd person in John 14:1?

synergy used that verse to prove that we are to believe in God as well as believe that Jesus is God.

I quote from synergy: Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1.

I just pointed out the verse says - You believe in God believe ALSO in me. #1 - We are to believe in God and in addition believe that (#2) Jesus is God . . . there's no mistaking what one would take away from that rendering = two gods.

I absolutely am flabbergasted that you are denying our Holy Father .

 

[Runningman]

Of course Trinitarians agree with and believe John 14:1 and the rest of the Bible for that matter. I already addressed how that verse makes Unitarians idolators.

Listen, we're not like unitarians that run away as fast as their little legs can carry them from entire Bible Chapters such as John 1. As I told you before, if you cannot offer any counterargument then it is Case Closed. You offered nothing except a baseless "you got debunked" feeble whimper, which is laughable at best. So that is where we stand.

This means that belief in God and Jesus aren't the same beliefs. Check mate.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

 

[amazing grace]

I absolutely am flabbergasted that you are denying our Holy Father .

I am absolutely flabbergasted that you see ANY place where I denied my heavenly Father?

WHERE IS IT? Please point out your accusation,

 

[Runningman]

I am absolutely flabbergasted that you see ANY place where I denied my heavenly Father?

WHERE IS IT? Please point out your accusation,

I assume they are all adults and intelligent enough to know what they are doing when they falsely accuse someone of something they never did. They're just causing a distraction, probably because you won the debate.

 

[civic]

I absolutely am flabbergasted that you are denying our Holy Father .

And Holy Spirit

 

[amazing grace]

GOD IN 3 PERSONS

Where's the 3rd person in John 14:1?

synergy used that verse to prove that we are to believe in God as well as believe that Jesus is God.

I quote from synergy: Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1.

I just pointed out the verse says - You believe in God believe ALSO in me. #1 - We are to believe in God and in addition believe that (#2) Jesus is God . . . there's no mistaking what one would take away from that rendering = two gods.

I absolutely am flabbergasted that you are denying our Holy Father .

And Holy Spirit

You also show me WHERE I denied the Father OR the Holy Spirit in reference to John 14:1 which is the verse being discussed.

For that matter show me where it says GOD IN THREE PERSONS . . . .

 

[civic]

You also show me WHERE I denied the Father OR the Holy Spirit in reference to John 14:1 which is the verse being discussed.

For that matter show me where it says GOD IN THREE PERSONS . . . .

Show me where it says God in one person .

Next fallacy

 

[FreeInChrist]

You also show me WHERE I denied the Father OR the Holy Spirit in reference to John 14:1 which is the verse being discussed.

For that matter show me where it says GOD IN THREE PERSONS . . . .

You are denying what He is, therefore you are denying Him.

The Trinity Explained So Even You Can Understand

Do you have difficulty understanding the Trinity? We will help you understand this confusing topic in our article, The Trinity Explained.

christianwakeupcall.com

The Trinity Explained So Even You Can Understand​

by John | Feb 13, 2021 | Theology | 0 comments
Table of Contents

​

How does a Christian explain the trinity, and how important is it really? You may be asking yourself this question. Understanding the trinity is crucial because it’s necessary in order to know the character of God.

The character of God is both complex and lovely. Deep but approachable. To describe God, to know Him, and to embrace His character, you must know Him as He truly is: a triune God. His personhood is both three and one.

I know this is a complicated idea, but bear with me patiently as I explain the holy trinity, because the trinity is the reason we can genuinely delight in the Godhead.

Believe it or not, the “holy trinity” is not a Biblical term! That’s a bit of a red flag, right? Well, not exactly. The concept of the trinity is based in a doctrine of the church that became more defined in the third century. The basis for the trinity is still deeply rooted in the Bible’s New Testament, as I’ll explain below. Defining the trinity is not embellishing or adding to what the Bible teaches us, it’s defining who God is as revealed BY Scripture.

​

The trinity, simply put, refers to God being One person, but existing in three coexisting, coeternal, cosubstantial persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are distinctive, and connect with us meaningfully in different ways, but they are One. We worship all three as equals when we worship God.

When you read this you might think to yourself: “Wow, ok, this is getting out of my depth. Maybe God didn’t really mean for us to understand the whole trinity thing! The Bible says God is a mystery doesn’t it?” I know, it’s challenging stuff! But when the Bible uses the word “mystery” it rarely if ever means the kind of mystery that pops into our minds. Agatha Christie novels, or Sherlock Holmes puffing on a pipe as he sniffs around a crime scene – the Bible’s literal translation doesn’t mean the murky unknown, or something that will always leave us guessing. When Paul speaks in Ephesians 3, for example, on the “mystery” of the Gentile’s (non-Jew’s) salvation, what this literally means is a “secret”. But it’s a secret being revealed! In his book, Delighting in the Trinity, author Michael Reeves puts it this way: “God is a mystery in that who He is and what He is like are secrets, things we would never have worked out by ourselves”, like the trinity, “but because the triune God has revealed himself, we can understand the trinity”.

God WANTS us to know Him. He doesn’t just want us to be holy. To be kind. To be loving. Those things should all be natural consequences of our main purpose: knowing (and loving) Him better. He gave us all of Scripture so that we could do just that. Antagonists of Christian faith may point to the trinity as inconsistent, or mention that the three persons of the trinity must be at odds, but this isn’t the truth. Let me break it down for you.

​

Our first truth to understand is that God is a singular being. There is only God, not subsidiary beings with different essences. The Bible is full of this truth, but here are some concrete examples from Scripture:

“To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord, He is God; there is no other besides Him” ~ Deuteronomy 4:35

God is the only god. We are not talking about multiple gods.

“For this reason You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears” ~ 2 Samuel 7:22

If there is none LIKE God then how do you explain Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit? Aren’t they like Him? They are more than like God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit ARE God. They share not just mindset, but their very essence.

“’You are My witnesses,’ declares the Lord, ‘And My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me’” ~ Isaiah 43:10

Again, the Lord makes it clear there are no other gods or separate deities created before or after Him. It’s clear from reading these passages that God did not leave room for secondary gods, nor did He suggest that there would be add-ons to Himself over time. God was and is God, completely, and fully; He is One.

​

So if the Bible always speaks of God as a singular being, what makes us think there’s a trinity? Isn’t this a contradiction? The Scripture actually refers to God frequently as a singular/plural being. It uses a word that refers to “plural gods”, or multiple people, but uses this complex word as a singular.

That word is Elohim. The term Elohim is a plural version of God, and was a word that was likely used by numerous ancient cultures. In the Hebrew use of Elohim, however, it is used to refer to a single spiritual unit. A single God. Here are some of the Scriptural examples of Elohim being used to describe God’s combined plurality and singularity:

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” ~ Matthew 28:19

Here the Bible describes three different persons, but with equal weight and power.

“I and the Father are one.” ~ John 10:30

These were the words of Jesus, as He told the Jews at the Feast of the Dedication that His followers could not be snatched from His hand, because they could not be snatched from God’s hand. Here Jesus is conveying that the safety and security of the flock is the purpose of both the Father and Son, because they have unified nature and essence. They are one.

“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” ~ Matthew 11:27

This claim over the divine will, by Jesus, would have been stunningly blasphemous to the Jews at that time (and in general) if not for one thing. Jesus Christ is sovereign God Himself.

​

So how does a both singular and plural understanding of the Godhead help us in describing God? What is the purpose of God having three different “selfs”? And why does it matter? Prolific author and theologian John Piper writes some intriguing stuff on explaining the trinity. He writes that “we (don’t) honor truth by ignorance of it. He does not think that increasing our knowledge decreases God’s mystery”. We ARE meant to know the trinity. That’s why God revealed it to us.

Words may not be sufficient to articulate the depth of the trinity, but the Bible has given us the tools to grasp it.

Here are some significant passages from the Bible that give us a window into the function and beauty of the trinity.

John chapter 1:1-5 begins to explain it this way. The Word (which John is actually using to refer to Jesus Himself) was in the beginning both with and part of God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it.~ John 1:1-5

Jesus IS the Word!

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about Him and called out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who is coming after me has proved to be my superior, because He existed before me.’”” ~ John 1:14-15

Jesus did not come into being when He came down to earth. He has always existed, with God, and as God.

​

What in the world does that mean? You may have heard before that God created humankind in His image. What you may not realize, though, is that this makes humankind a reflection of the trinity!

God said that He would “create man in Our image”, as opposed to “My image”. Read it here!

Then God said, “Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” ~ Genesis 1:26

This passage is the very first reference to the trinity in the Bible. God created man in the image of the Father, Son, AND Holy Spirit, in order for man to fully reflect God’s image.

Man reflects the trinity because man is a threefold being.

1. Body​

• Jesus was the bodily form of God, so that He could dwell among us and share our human experience.
• Our physical bodies reflect Jesus, share His struggles, and represent His part of the trinity.
• Like Christ, our body interacts with the tangible world.
• Our body also has its own desires, as even Christ did. Take a look at this Q&A on Billy Graham’s site to read about how Christ dreaded the cross and even went reluctantly (though joyfully) as His flesh warred against His purpose.
• Though we have physical bodies, we are directed by our soul.

2. Soul​

• God the Father, as you can read in the first few chapters of Genesis, created all things and imbues us with a soul. When Ephesians 4:6 says that He is the “Father of all who is over all and through all and in all” it is describing God the Father’s unique role. Though He is spiritual father only to believers, He is a father to all of creation as its creator. We know God with our souls and it’s our souls that reflect Him so deeply.
• Our souls are who we are. It is more, even, than our intellect. It’s like our “True Name”.
• God is the ultimate authority and decision maker over all things. Totally sovereign. You can read this in every inch of the Bible, but Psalms 103:19 and Romans 11:36 are perfect examples.

3. Spirit​

• Our spirits reflect the Holy Spirit, and He has lingered with us after Christ ascended to be with the Father to continue guiding, edifying, and shaping the church. The Holy Spirit helps give us understanding and discernment as we study the Bible. We are NOT necessarily going to hear the Holy Spirit telling us things, or giving us divine words in our ears (if you want to hear the voice of God, just read the Bible out loud), but He does aid our growth by illuminating the Word of God.
• The Holy Spirit gives us the will to act, and inspires us to speak truth, as described in 2 Peter 1:19-21.
• The Holy Spirit also connects us with God as we share His spirit. Check it out!

  • Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person – Genesis 2:7 .

  • This is crucial because the formation of spirit and soul is what makes us so like God, and gives us such connection to Him. No other creation but humankind shares this connection with God. No animal or other being was given this same “breath of life”.

No other being exists in this way, but God is three distinct beings, with different roles, in the same person.

​

So why does the trinity matter? God is Love because of the trinity. We are saved because of the trinity. He approaches and connects with us in many beautiful ways purely because of the trinity. The trinity is truth. The trinity IS God, and without the three persons we do not fully know the whole person who is God at all.

Yes; the trinity matters because the trinity is our complete God. It’s not fractions that love us, but the whole person. Not fractions that we worship, but the whole person. All three persons have the total essence of God, and we choose to follow all three or we reject the true God!

Be encouraged! Not only do the three persons of the trinity work in total unity (they don’t just agree a lot – they share the same mind), but they work TOGETHER for our good, and only our good. There is no ulterior or sinister motive in the triune God. Only an endless love for us.

If you have questions on these life-altering truths, please feel free to ask us in the comments below!

 

[FreeInChrist]

Show me where it says God in one person .

Next fallacy

Ditto