Transmitting The Fallen Nature

civic said:
Nice bait n switch it’s the same word used with YHWH in the OT and with Jesus in the NT.

Next
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Google this: Matthew 4:3 first class condition

Satan was not "tempting" (testing) Jesus to prove His is God.

The only temptation was to get Jesus to resort back to being as God.
 
sawdust said:
I noticed you never bothered to actually answer the question. And you accuse another of bait and switch??
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He switches to try to distract you to make you get away from the challenge that he could not answer.
He may comment on a word you stated in your challenge. but never addresses the actual challenge that was made.

After a while...
It just becomes silly.
 
GeneZ said:
He switches to try to distract you to make you get away from the challenge that he could not answer.
He may comment on a word you stated in your challenge. but never addresses the actual challenge that was made.

After a while...
It just becomes silly.
Click to expand...

Some people just can't admit when they're wrong about something. Well, I could be wrong about that.
 
GeneZ said:
With your line of logic concerning miracles?

Moses could be construed to have been God.

and Paul healed many people supernaturally.

You are not breaking it down correctly.

I also see you are still resorting to using catch phrases like Arian/Nestorian.
You do that like ANTIFA calling conservatives fascists.'
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I asked you to tell us how your Arian/Nestorian thinking explains how the making of bread is a temptation whereas bringing back Lazarus from the dead is not and I'm still waiting............

I haven't given my explanation yet so why are you putting words in my mouth? You just can't help it I see.
 
~
Airplane A leaves LAX at 250 mph. Airplane B leaves LAX twenty minutes later at
400 mph.

How long will it take plane B to catch up to plane A, and how far from the airport
will the intercept occur?
_
 
GeneZ said:
He switches to try to distract you to make you get away from the challenge that he could not answer.
He may comment on a word you stated in your challenge. but never addresses the actual challenge that was made.

After a while...
It just becomes silly.
Click to expand...
Nice try. You misunderstand the Trinity, 2 natures in Christ , lean Kenosis and Nestorian , don’t understand God is Immutable and many other unchangeable attributes of God. God is Impeccable yet your god is not. Sin, man and the devil are greater and more powerful than the eternal God the Son who is forever a Divine Person, the 2nd Person in the Trinity.

Question: "Could Jesus have sinned? If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

Answer: There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got?

hope this helps !!!
 
synergy said:
I asked you to tell us how your Arian/Nestorian thinking explains how the making of bread is a temptation whereas bringing back Lazarus from the dead is not and I'm still waiting............

I haven't given my explanation yet so why are you putting words in my mouth? You just can't help it I see.
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It’s like dealing with JWs on the old Trinity forum who also deny the Deity of Christ and that He is a Divine Person. We can see all these heresies that are being flushed out. I use to go round and round with seth on these same discussions on the old forum. Allot of self proclaimed Trinitarians don’t understand the Tri- Unity of God. On that same forum I challenged all the Calvinists on the Trinity forum. Not a single one could debate the attributes of God and how that applied to the Trinity and the atonement. They all failed and the thread is still there as evidence with all their ad hominem attacks as responses. Much like we see here.

They haven’t studied it themselves just what they have been spoon fed from the pulpit. Their preachers are their source for truth, not scripture and the truth about Gods nature and character. Doctrine over truth.
 
Olde Tymer said:
~
Airplane A leaves LAX at 250 mph. Airplane B leaves LAX twenty minutes later at
400 mph.

How long will it take plane B to catch up to plane A, and how far from the airport
will the intercept occur?
_
Click to expand...
It's hard enough getting up after New Years festivities, let alone thinking.

Anyways, assuming they're flying in exactly the same direction:

(20/60)x250 + 250t = 400t
t = (250x20)/(150×60) = 0.5555555555 hrs.

Seeing that it was New Years, maybe it could be worded like Person 1 started drinking 2 hours before Person 2. Person 1 is drinking 1 drink per 3 hours. Person 2 is drinking 1 drink per hour. At what point in time have both Persons drank the same amount?
 
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civic said:
It’s like dealing with JWs on the old Trinity forum who also deny the Deity of Christ and that He is a Divine Person. We can see all these heresies that are being flushed out. I use to go round and round with seth on these same discussions on the old forum. Allot of self proclaimed Trinitarians don’t understand the Tri- Unity of God. On that same forum I challenged all the Calvinists on the Trinity forum. Not a single one could debate the attributes of God and how that applied to the Trinity and the atonement. They all failed and the thread is still there as evidence with all their ad hominem attacks as responses. Much like we see here.

They haven’t studied it themselves just what they have been spoon fed from the pulpit. Their preachers are their source for truth, not scripture and the truth about Gods nature and character. Doctrine over truth.
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Correct. Seeing that it's absolutely mind blowing the work that Saint Athanasius put in to save virtually the whole world (with God's Grace of course) from Arianism. Absolutely mind blowing!

It's interesting reading up on the Saint. He was meticulous, direct, and forceful.

Saint Nicholas went as far as slapping Arius silly. Imagine that.
 
synergy said:
Correct. Seeing that it's absolutely mind blowing the work that Saint Athanasius put in to save virtually the whole world (with God's Grace of course) from Arianism. Absolutely mind blowing!

It's interesting reading up on the Saint. He was meticulous, direct, and forceful.

Saint Nicholas went as far as slapping Arius silly. Imagine that.
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And Chaldcedon which they must reject with their views. They must also reject the Nicene Creed with the Son being Co-Substantial with the Father. The Athanasian Creed is another one of my favorites. :)
 
synergy said:
Yes. They reject Christology, the Bible, all the Saints of Chalcedon and willingly throw themselves into the pit of Hades.
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Athanasian Creed

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.
 
synergy said:
Yes. They reject Christology, the Bible, all the Saints of Chalcedon and willingly throw themselves into the pit of Hades.
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Church history is so important and vital to know and ignorance is no excuse. Next to Scripture those 4 creeds ( Apostle's included )are the most important documents in Christendom.

Those Creeds are so rich in Theo ( God ) ology ( the study of ) Theology. :)
 
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Some would have you believe that Jesus Divinity was subject to His humanity when in fact is was just the opposite. Jesus humanity was subservient/subject to His Deity.
 
Since they don't believe me or the scriptures I have referenced maybe they will believe the gospel coalition article below which affirms everything Christological I have said in this thread which the Creeds and Bible affirm about the Trinity and Deity of Christ.

Incarnation is the term that refers to the supernatural act of the triune God, whereby the eternal, divine Son, from the Father, by the agency of the Spirit, took into union with himself a complete human nature apart from sin. As a result, the Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, now and forevermore exists as one person in two natures, our only Lord and Savior.

SUMMARY​

This article will describe who Jesus is as God the Son incarnate in light of the Scriptural teaching and the Confessional orthodoxy of the Church. By developing five truths about the incarnation, starting with Jesus’ full deity as the eternal Son in relation to the Father and Spirit, and working from eternity to time, the identity of Christ and the nature of the incarnation will be described. To know Jesus rightly from Scripture, we must see who he is in relation to the doctrine of the Trinity, and the reason for the incarnation in light of the Bible’s entire redemptive storyline.
The question Jesus asked his disciples is still alive and well today: “Who do people say that I am?” (Mark 8:27). As in the first century, so today, there is much confusion regarding Jesus’ identity, even though everyone admits that Jesus is one of the most towering figures of history. The disciples responded to Jesus’ question by listing some of the diverse answers of their day, yet every answer only viewed Jesus in the category of a mere human. Today, similar to Jesus’ day, people continue to answer Jesus’ question with diverse and confused answers.

However, in total contrast to these views of Jesus, whether from the first century or today, Scripture, along with the Confessional standards of Nicaea (325) and Chalcedon (451), present a different answer to Jesus’ question. Who is Jesus? Jesus is the divine Son, the second person of the triune Godhead, the Lord of Glory, who in time assumed a human nature, so that now and forevermore he is the eternal “Word made flesh” (John 1:14). For this reason, Jesus is in a category all by himself as the unique, exclusive, and only Lord and Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). This is also why confusion about Jesus’ identity is no small matter. There is nothing more important than knowing who Jesus is. This is not merely an academic debate, something for theologians to ponder; it’s a question vital for all people and especially for the church.
Let’s think through who Jesus is as God the Son incarnate from Scripture and confessional orthodoxy by unpacking five summary statements about him.

(1) Jesus is God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, who has eternally shared the one, undivided divine nature with the Father and Spirit and is thus fully God.​

John makes this point when he reminds us that the “Word with God” (thus a distinct “person”) yet also “was God” (thus equal with God), thus underscoring the triune person-relations and a fully shared divine nature within God (John 1:1). Jesus, then, is the divine Son, and as the Son, he is not a created being. Instead, he is the eternal Son through whom all things were created and are now sustained (Col. 1:15-17; Heb. 1:1-3). It’s this Son, who became flesh (John 1:14) and by virtue of the incarnation and his work becomes our Redeemer and Lord.

The biblical evidence for the Son’s full deity is abundant. From the opening of the New Testament, Jesus is identified as Yahweh by inaugurating God’s kingdom—thus doing God’s work (Isa. 9:6-7; Jer. 31:31-34; Ezek. 34:1-31). This is why his miracles are not merely human acts empowered by the Spirit; rather, they are demonstrations of his own divine authority as the one who inaugurates God’s saving reign (Matt. 8:23-27; 14:22-23), rules over Satan (Matt. 12:27-28), and all things (Eph. 1:9-10; 19-23). With the Father and Spirit, the Son fully and equally shares the one divine name and nature (Matt. 28:18-20; John 8:58; Phil. 2:9-11; Col. 2:9). The Son is also identified as God (theos) (John 1:1, 18; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2Pet. 1:1) because he is the exact image and correspondence of the Father (Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3). As the Son, he inseparably shares with the Father and Spirit the divine rule, works, and receives divine worship (Psa. 110:1; Eph. 1:22; Phil. 2:9-11; Col. 1:15-20; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 5:11-12). This is why Jesus has authority to forgive sin (Mark 2:3-12), to say that all Scripture is fulfilled in him (Matt. 5:17-19), and to acknowledge that he is from the Father as the Son, but also equal to the Father as the divine Son (Matt. 11:25-27; John 5:16-30; 10:14-30; 14:9-13).
To account for what Scripture teaches about Jesus and his relation to the Father and Spirit, the Church distinguished between the person (or subject) of the incarnation, and the nature(s) the person subsisted in. The “person-nature” distinction was a theological distinction necessary to account for Scripture’s presentation of the one God who is triune. To explain all the biblical data, the Church distinguished the Father, Son, and Spirit without separating them into three Gods. Instead, Christian theology affirmed that there are three distinct divine “persons” who fully share the one, undivided divine “nature” and that the one divine nature wholly subsists in each of the three persons so that each person is fully and equally God (contra Arianism that denied Christ’s deity).

“Nature” (Gk: ousia; Latin: essentia, substantia), then, referred to what an object is. A divine nature is what God is in his one, undivided essence, which we describe in terms of God’s attributes. A human nature is what constitutes humanity, namely, a body-soul composite with corresponding capacities, such as a will, mind, and emotions. In Christ, there is one “person” (Gk: hypostasis; Latin: persona), the Son, who is the subject of two “natures” that subsists in both natures and acts through them. The “person” is the “acting subject”; natures are not. Yet, what is true of each nature is true of the one person (known as “communication of attributes”).

(2) Jesus is God the Son incarnate.​

The word “incarnation” comes from the Latin (in + carnes [flesh]), which means “in the flesh.” Scripture teaches that the divine Son (person), who eternally shares the divine nature with the Father and Spirit, acted to assume a human nature without a human “person/subject” (contra Nestorianism that affirmed two “persons” in Christ). As a result, God the Son became incarnate.

It’s crucial to think of the incarnation as an act of addition, not subtraction, by the sovereign, effectual means of a virgin conception (Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38). The Son, from the Father and by the supernatural and sanctifying agency of the Spirit, without change or loss of his deity, added a second nature to himself consisting of a human body and soul (John 1:14, Phil. 2:6-8). As a result, the Son permanently added a human dimension to his personal, divine life, and became present to us in a new mode of existence as the incarnate Son. The Son’s subsistence and action is now in both natures so that the Son is able to act in both natures and produce effects consistent and proper to each nature. Thus, as the incarnate Son, Jesus is able to render human obedience (Luke 2:52; 22:29-44; Heb. 5:8-10) for us as the last Adam (Heb. 2:5-18; Rom. 5:12-21), and to do a divine work by securing our eternal redemption (Eph. 1:7-10), and justifying us before God as covenant representative and substitute (Rom. 3:21-26; 4:25; 1Pet. 3:18).

The biblical evidence for Christ’s full humanity is also abundant. Jesus is presented as a Jewish man who was born, underwent the normal process of growth and development (Luke 2:52), who experienced a full range of human experiences (Matt. 8:10, 24; 9:36; Luke 22:44; John 19:28) including growth in knowledge (Mark 13:32), and the experience of death (John 19:30). Apart from his sinlessness, which Scripture clearly teaches (John 8:46; 2Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 1Pet. 1:19), Jesus is one with us in every way.

​

 

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