Total Depravity

[brightfame52]

For the natural man to consider the spiritual truths of the Gospel foolishness', it stands to reason they can understand it naturally, but not Spiritually because it must be spiritually discerned 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[Jeff]

For the natural man to consider the spiritual truths of the Gospel foolishness', it stands to reason they can understand it naturally, but not Spiritually because it must be spiritually discerned 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Until the gospel is preached to them then they have the opportunity to make a free will decision to Believe In Christ. That changes everything.

 

[civic]

Until the gospel is preached to them then they have the opportunity to make a free will decision to Believe In Christ. That changes everything.

Yep

 

[Rockson]

@Rockson



Sure naturally, but not Spiritually,

So being naturally alive and you can understand words that are said to you then why can't you say YES to God when he's asked you to receive something?

 

[brightfame52]

Until the gospel is preached to them then they have the opportunity to make a free will decision to Believe In Christ. That changes everything.

Until regenerated a person is dead to God and all things spiritual.

 

[brightfame52]

So being naturally alive and you can understand words that are said to you then why can't you say YES to God when he's asked you to receive something?

As stated the natural man may understand spiritual truth naturally, but he cant understand it spiritually. Now when he understands it naturally its foolishness to him 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So naturally he thinks Spiritual truth is foolishness.

 

[synergy]

As stated the natural man may understand spiritual truth naturally, but he cant understand it spiritually. Now when he understands it naturally its foolishness to him 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So naturally he thinks Spiritual truth is foolishness.

Another massive failure on your part to understand that Paul's Corinthian audience is already regenerated believers and not part of a calvinist caste system. Even regenerated people can fall back into a "natural" state. Paul accused many of being still "babes" in the faith. Calvinist caste systems are a product of Hindu beliefs. We are Christian believers, not Hindu believers. Do you understand?

 

[brightfame52]

Another massive failure on your part to understand that Paul's Corinthian audience is already regenerated believers and not part of a calvinist caste system. Even regenerated people can fall back into a "natural" state. Paul accused many of being still "babes" in the faith. Calvinist caste systems are a product of Hindu beliefs. We are Christian believers, not Hindu believers. Do you understand?

I know who his audience is, but what you dont see is what he said to his audience about the natural man. His audience were spiritual and had been given the Spirit 1 Cor 2 12

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

[synergy]

I know who his audience is, but what you dont see is what he said to his audience about the natural man. His audience were spiritual and had been given the Spirit 1 Cor 2 12

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Again, you continue to fail to understand that even though his audience is regenerate, they can still become carnal if they do not continue to abide by the Spirit. See Rom 7:14. Therefore, there is no such thing as a calvinist elect caste system. Calvinist caste systems are a product of Hindu beliefs. We are Christian believers, not Hindu believers. Why do you refuse to understand that fact?

(Romans 7:14) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you continue to fail to understand that even though his audience is regenerate, they can still become carnal if they do not continue to abide by the Spirit. See Rom 7:14. Therefore, there is no such thing as a calvinist elect caste system. Calvinist caste systems are a product of Hindu beliefs. We are Christian believers, not Hindu believers. Why do you refuse to understand that fact?

(Romans 7:14) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Sorry but the natural man cannot and will not ever Spiritually understand he Gospel. And Spiritual understanding is imperative in order to receive, believe and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Man naturally because of total depravity cant spiritually hear, nor understand the things of God.

 

[Rockson]

As stated the natural man may understand spiritual truth naturally, but he cant understand it spiritually.

OK you've said the natural mind understands spiritual truth naturally. . Remember the verse you quoted,.......... And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.....
To quicken means made alive in the spirit. But you said he understands the truth naturally. If he understands the truth naturally then why can't he at least say YES to God?

If he understands it he understands it. But then you swing back and say that he doesn't understand it that it's foolishness to him. But if he understood it from ANY LEVEL why would you claim to him it's foolishness'. That would be a sign he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. How can one understand it and not understand it for that's what you claim.

Here's what understand means---> to perceive the meaning of; grasp the idea of; comprehend: to grasp the significance, implications, or importance of:

Now when he understands it naturally its foolishness to him 1 Cor 2:14

Then explain this. Some have served God for years....and then turned against God and the line at least among OSAS which I believe that's what you are.... is that they never knew God to begin with not that I agree with that BUT that's another subject.

But for those who served God for years and fell away...THEY NEVER thought of the way to salvation as foolishness. They at one time had a great respect and very much agreed with the salvation message. they never mocked it, they never considered it as foolishness. So how do you say it was foolishness to them?

So naturally he thinks Spiritual truth is foolishness.

But then he never understood it then did he....but you said he did or could.

 

[civic]

Again, you continue to fail to understand that even though his audience is regenerate, they can still become carnal if they do not continue to abide by the Spirit. See Rom 7:14. Therefore, there is no such thing as a calvinist elect caste system. Calvinist caste systems are a product of Hindu beliefs. We are Christian believers, not Hindu believers. Why do you refuse to understand that fact?

(Romans 7:14) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Yes a major failure. It just shows his eisegesis and cherry picking a verse out ripping it from its context. It’s the only way their system works.

 

[civic]

OK you've said the natural mind understands spiritual truth naturally. . Remember the verse you quoted,.......... And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.....
To quicken means made alive in the spirit. But you said he understands the truth naturally. If he understands the truth naturally then why can't he at least say YES to God?

If he understands it he understands it. But then you swing back and say that he doesn't understand it that it's foolishness to him. But if he understood it from ANY LEVEL why would you claim to him it's foolishness'. That would be a sign he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. How can one understand it and not understand it for that's what you claim.

Here's what understand means---> to perceive the meaning of; grasp the idea of; comprehend: to grasp the significance, implications, or importance of:



Then explain this. Some have served God for years....and then turned against God and the line at least among OSAS which I believe that's what you are.... is that they never knew God to begin with not that I agree with that BUT that's another subject.

But for those who served God for years and fell away...THEY NEVER thought of the way to salvation as foolishness. They at one time had a great respect and very much agreed with the salvation message. they never mocked it, they never considered it as foolishness. So how do you say it was foolishness to them?


But then he never understood it then did he....but you said he did or could.

Amen !!!

 

[synergy]

Sorry but the natural man cannot and will not ever Spiritually understand he Gospel. And Spiritual understanding is imperative in order to receive, believe and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Man naturally because of total depravity cant spiritually hear, nor understand the things of God.

Again, you fail to realize that Paul's audience is regenerate and it's them that can fall into being a natural man if they stop abiding in the Spirit.

Therefore, there is no such thing as a calvinist elect caste system. Calvinist caste systems are a product of Hindu beliefs. We are Christian believers, not Hindu believers. Why do you refuse to understand that fact?

 

[Jeff]

Sorry but the natural man cannot and will not ever Spiritually understand he Gospel. And Spiritual understanding is imperative in order to receive, believe and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Man naturally because of total depravity cant spiritually hear, nor understand the things of God.

Jesus is explaining the meaning behind His parable about the sower.

Jesus says this good soil refers to a person's willingness to really listen and the gift of really understanding what he says. When a person really listens and is committed to be good soil, the Spirit gives the gift of understanding (1 Corinthians 2:9-12), and then growth and productivity come about naturally.

This is what happens when we leave the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yet to us God has unveiled and revealed them by and through His Spirit, for the [Holy] Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything, even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God [the divine counsels and things hidden and beyond man’s scrutiny].
11 For what person perceives (knows and understands) what passes through a man’s thoughts except the man’s own spirit within him? Just so no one discerns (comes to know and comprehend) the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to] the world, but the [Holy] Spirit Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.
1 Co 2:10–12.

 

[Jeff]

Until regenerated a person is dead to God and all things spiritual.

Before accepting the gospel mankind is like this...

21 Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].
Romans 1:21–22.

After hearing and accepting the gospel to become...

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!”

2 Corinthians 5:17​

 

[brightfame52]

OK you've said the natural mind understands spiritual truth naturally. . Remember the verse you quoted,.......... And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.....
To quicken means made alive in the spirit. But you said he understands the truth naturally. If he understands the truth naturally then why can't he at least say YES to God?

If he understands it he understands it. But then you swing back and say that he doesn't understand it that it's foolishness to him. But if he understood it from ANY LEVEL why would you claim to him it's foolishness'. That would be a sign he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. How can one understand it and not understand it for that's what you claim.

Here's what understand means---> to perceive the meaning of; grasp the idea of; comprehend: to grasp the significance, implications, or importance of:



Then explain this. Some have served God for years....and then turned against God and the line at least among OSAS which I believe that's what you are.... is that they never knew God to begin with not that I agree with that BUT that's another subject.

But for those who served God for years and fell away...THEY NEVER thought of the way to salvation as foolishness. They at one time had a great respect and very much agreed with the salvation message. they never mocked it, they never considered it as foolishness. So how do you say it was foolishness to them?


But then he never understood it then did he....but you said he did or could.

Yes he understands it to be foolishness so he's not converted to Christ but remains in unbelief.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you fail to realize that Paul's audience is regenerate and it's them that can fall into being a natural man if they stop abiding in the Spirit.

Therefore, there is no such thing as a calvinist elect caste system. Calvinist caste systems are a product of Hindu beliefs. We are Christian believers, not Hindu believers. Why do you refuse to understand that fact?

I know who Paul audience is but you fail to realize what he is telling his audience

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus is explaining the meaning behind His parable about the sower.

Jesus says this good soil refers to a person's willingness to really listen and the gift of really understanding what he says. When a person really listens and is committed to be good soil, the Spirit gives the gift of understanding (1 Corinthians 2:9-12), and then growth and productivity come about naturally.

This is what happens when we leave the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yet to us God has unveiled and revealed them by and through His Spirit, for the [Holy] Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything, even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God [the divine counsels and things hidden and beyond man’s scrutiny].
11 For what person perceives (knows and understands) what passes through a man’s thoughts except the man’s own spirit within him? Just so no one discerns (comes to know and comprehend) the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to] the world, but the [Holy] Spirit Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.
1 Co 2:10–12.

The good soil is the regenerated heart that's the only one that can believe the gospel and understand it spiritually

 

[brightfame52]

Before accepting the gospel mankind is like this...

21 Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].
Romans 1:21–22.

After hearing and accepting the gospel to become...

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!”

2 Corinthians 5:17​

Sorry before regeneration a person is dead to God.