God's existence has no beginning
and seeing as God is living he experiences sequence i.e. time
BTW your question was not about God but time
Time in heaven
- Thread starter TomL
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and seeing as God is living he experiences sequence i.e. time
BTW your question was not about God but time
No answer is forthcoming apparently. Good talking to you.
So He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Beginning of what?
You really do want to ignore the fact that it has nothing to do with time having a beginning
All created things began with him
That's not what it say is it?
Creation is the beginning of time. Beginning of the universe. The beginning of time and space.
Sorry that is just an empty claim you have not supported
God planned, decreed and created that involves sequence thus time
That does not mean He is subject to the rules of time.
Did God create all thing including space and time?
Time was not created as you were already informed
God planned, decreed, and created that involves sequence and thus time
Temporally, yup. Beyond time and space, nope.
Sorry as contrary states cannot exist simultaneously there must be time
and if actions are completed and no longer exist there is time
Complete
Well-known member
'Thus saith God the LORD,
He that created the heavens, and stretched them out;
He that spread forth the earth,
and that which cometh out of it;
he that giveth breath unto the people upon it,
and spirit to them that walk therein:
I the LORD have called thee (Messiah) in righteousness,
and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
and give thee for a covenant of the people,
for a light of the Gentiles;
To open the blind eyes,
to bring out the prisoners from the prison,
and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the LORD: that is My name:
and My glory will I not give to another,
neither my praise to graven images.
Behold, the former things are come to pass,
and new things do I declare:
before they spring forth I tell you of them.'
(Isa 42:5-9)
He that created the heavens, and stretched them out;
He that spread forth the earth,
and that which cometh out of it;
he that giveth breath unto the people upon it,
and spirit to them that walk therein:
I the LORD have called thee (Messiah) in righteousness,
and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
and give thee for a covenant of the people,
for a light of the Gentiles;
To open the blind eyes,
to bring out the prisoners from the prison,
and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the LORD: that is My name:
and My glory will I not give to another,
neither my praise to graven images.
Behold, the former things are come to pass,
and new things do I declare:
before they spring forth I tell you of them.'
(Isa 42:5-9)
It is good to examine the verses you reference, compare them with "Every Word" of God as the Jesus of the bible instructs.
Rev. 22: 1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, (Throne of God and of the Lamb) and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and "yielded" her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree "were for" the healing of the nations.
So the Tree of Life, which existed since the beginning of time, yielded her fruit every month, and her leaves were for the healing of nations which, in the vision, were already healed as the following verse details.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night "there"; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
This is vastly different than the heavens and the earth God created for humans.
Gen. 1: 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God "divided the light from the darkness". 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness "he called Night". And the evening and the morning were the first day.
In the vision you referenced, there is no more "Night". No more sunrise or sunset. No more "lights in the firmament of the heaven to "divide the day from the night"; "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years".
The Tree of Life who yielded her fruit every month since time began, no longer needed as His Servants have already eaten of the fruit, and have been given immortality (Life). As it is written, there is only "DAY". No more "Yesterdays" because there is no longer a division between light and darkness. No more tomorrows, because there is no longer a division between light and darkness.
Just "DAY" forever.
Rev. 8: 1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
John was a flesh and blood human, sharing his vision. But what is "half an hour"? In our world, there are 12 hours in the day, and the same for the night, +-. Doing the math, he envisioned 30 minutes.
But in heaven there is no night, at least according to Scriptures. So then, how long is a day in heaven? How many hours in a day? How many days in a week. How many days in a month, or year?
To "divide light from darkness" for humans, God created "TIME", in my view. But God IS Light. In Him there is no darkness. Therefore, no division between night and day, and therefore, HE is not subject to "Time" as we know it, nor is HE held by the same constraints of time, "signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years". that we are.
Time runs out, ends for all life on earth. But not in heaven, the "Curse", described in the beginning, is gone for those who have received the reward that Jesus brings with Him, on His Return.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all "the days" of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
There are no more "Days" in the Kingdom of Heaven, just DAY. No more "Mornings or Evenings". No more beginnings or endings.
1 John 1:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear "what we shall be": but we know that, "when he shall appear", we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Truly "Time" as created by God for humans, will come to an END.
civic
Well-known member
nope the bible doesn't say " creation is the beginning of time "
thats your presuppositionalism talking again.
No, logic does. Something you and yours are in short supply of.nope the bible doesn't say " creation is the beginning of time "
thats your presuppositionalism talking again.
How do you have time when there was nothing?
Actually, my argument is that there must be Light to divide the darkness before "Days (PL)" can exist. I know you don't agree, but it seems prudent to at least explain my position, so you are clear on what to disagree about.
Time is the continued sequence of existence and events that occurs in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, and into the future.[1][2][3] It is a component quantity of various measurements used "to sequence events", to compare the "duration of events" or the intervals "between them", and to quantify rates of change of quantities in material reality or in the conscious experience. (WIKI)
If there is no light, how does "Time" exist? If there is no darkness, how does "Time" exist. If there is no beginning, then where is the beginning of the "Sequence of events"? If there is no Ending, where is the "duration of events or the intervals between them"?
By dividing the Light from the darkness, there is a "beginning event" it is now possible to "measure" the "duration of events, and the interval between them.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning "were the first day".
God has no beginning event, but the Heavens and Earth HE created does.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth".
This wouldn't be God's Beginning, because there is no "Beginning" with God, nor is there an End. This "Event" was the world's beginning. And dividing the Day from the Night, is how the "Sequence of Events" began. In doing so, there is now, for humans, a beginning Event from which to begin the sequence of existence and events. God is not subject to this "TIME" as HE has no "Beginning Event" nor is there an "Ending Event" for Him and therefore it is not possible to measure the duration between them. Which is "Time" by its very definition.
But for EVERYTHING under the Heavens that God created, there is a beginning event, and there is an ending event". "The Last Great Day" as it is called in the Law and Prophets.
At some point the darkness that the Light divided, like everything else in this world, will come to an end. With no more darkness, there is only God, or LIGHT. And those who are in Him, will exist in His Realm, where the division between Light and Darkness no longer exists. And they live forever in a Kingdom which existed before the World was, a Kingdom with no beginning event, nor an ending event.
This is my position, learned from study of the scriptures regarding God's creation. I believe God created "Time", He is not subject to His creation, rather, His creation is subject to Him.
Dan. 12: But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the "days".
Um You have not shown time ends and we known from the creation detail time existed before it could be measured by day and night
God cannot be creator and not creator at the same time
God cannot have planned and not planned at the same time
God could not have decreed and not decreed at the same time
If a past exists there is time.
If a change exists there is time
The fallacy of your argument is the same being cannot be both temporal and eternal.
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