The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Doug Brents]

You said faith must be active. So what action did Abraham perform in Romans 4:5, in order for God to credit his faith as righteousness?

In Gen 15:2-3, Abraham complains to God that he has no heir, and God told him that the man he had selected, Eliezer of Damascus, would not be his heir. And so, it can be presumed although we are not told explicitly here, Abraham removed Eliezer of Damascus from being his heir.

What action did David perform in order to receive a blessing from God, and have his sins forgiven in Roman 4:6-8?

David doesn't mention what he did or what actions of faith are required, but he does talk about the fact that God forgives because of our faith.

What action did Zacchaeus take for Jesus to declare that he was saved?

Zaccheus, seeing his sin and the righteousness of Jesus, acted upon his remorse and gave back what he had stolen (with interest) and submitted himself to the will of God.

What action did the proconsul take when he believed the gospel in Acts13:12?

We are not told what actions he took. But that fact does not mean that faith is not required to be active in order to be real.

What action did Paul say was necessary to receive forgiveness of sins in Acts 13:38-39?

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

What action did Peter, quoting the Old Testament prophets, say was necessary to receive forgiveness of sins in Acts 10:43?

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

What action did the Gentiles take when they believed in Acts 13:48?

They repented (Acts 3:19), confessed Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and were baptized (Acts 2:38) and that is when they received forgiveness.

What action did Peter say was required for the people in Acts 15:8-9 to have their hearts cleansed?

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

What action did Peter say must be done to be saved in Acts 15:11?

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

When Jesus was commissioning Paul, telling him to preach to Jews and Gentiles, what action did He tell Paul was required on their part, to turn from the dominion of Satan to God, and to receive forgiveness of sins in Acts 26:18?

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

 

[dwight92070]

Jesus literally died for the sins of the whole world, He was literally buried in the garden tomb, and He was literally raised from the dead on the third day. Those actions will never again be repeated.

So when Paul talks about us dying to sin, being buried with Him, and being raised up with Him, we know these things do not physically happen to us. But they happen spiritually in our hearts. Paul calls it the circumcision of our hearts, the circumcision of Christ, "made without hands" - that is, nothing physical is required, no human hands are needed, because Christ Himself performs this "surgery", which is synonymous with being born again.

Therefore to suggest that this spiritual surgery cannot occur apart from another man physically immersing us in water - is to add to the work of Christ.
This false suggestion means that no one can be saved without having another person physically there, to immerse us in water. A person stranded on a raft in the ocean cannot be saved, a person in solitary confinement cannot be saved. A lone astronaut in a spacecraft cannot be saved. Or even several astronauts in the space station cannot be saved, because immersion in water is impossible in a weightless state. A person lost in the forest cannot be saved. A person in traction in a hospital cannot be saved. A dying, fragile elderly person in a nursing home cannot be saved. If a man's parachute fails, and as he is falling to his death he prays to be spiritually saved - well, it's too late, because he cannot be baptized. If an airplane has a mid-air collision with another airplane, and both planes are falling to the ground, can those people cry out to God for spiritual salvation? Well, yes, but according to some, it won't help, because they would have to be baptized before they hit the ground. A person stranded in a burning building cannot be spiritually saved. A person in a car accident, trapped in their vehicle cannot be born again. All the people on the sinking Titanic, waiting in terror to die, could not be born again, because they could not be baptized.

This is where false and legalistic doctrine takes us - to absurdity! We cannot be deceived by it.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

there is no water in 1 cor 12.

we were baptized by one spirit (The holy spirit)

we were baptized into one body (the body of Christ)

 

[dwight92070]

In Gen 15:2-3, Abraham complains to God that he has no heir, and God told him that the man he had selected, Eliezer of Damascus, would not be his heir. And so, it can be presumed although we are not told explicitly here, Abraham removed Eliezer of Damascus from being his heir.

Presumption is all you have? Even if Abraham did that, that would not cause God to declare Him righteous. Because the verse says that He declares righteous only "the one who does NOT work"

David doesn't mention what he did or what actions of faith are required, but he does talk about the fact that God forgives because of our faith.

You're getting warmer - it's our faith that brings forgiveness and salvation.

Zaccheus, seeing his sin and the righteousness of Jesus, acted upon his remorse and gave back what he had stolen (with interest) and submitted himself to the will of
God.

Jesus declared that salvation had already come to Zaccheus' house, just on the basis of Zaccheus' statement. He had not yet given anything away, nor had he made restitution of anything stolen. Jesus also declared "he, too, is a son of Abraham." That means he had faith. So, the answer is, other than faith, Zaccheus did nothing.

We are not told what actions he took. But that fact does not mean that faith is not required to be active in order to be real.

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

They repented (Acts 3:19), confessed Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and were baptized (Acts 2:38) and that is when they received forgiveness.

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

What actions are included in "belief/faith" in Christ? repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

NO actions are recorded in Acts 13:12, 38-39, 48; Acts 10:43; Acts 15:8-9, 11; Acts 26:18.
But in each of these, what IS RECORDED is their belief, their faith.

 

[Doug Brents]

Jesus literally died for the sins of the whole world, He was literally buried in the garden tomb, and He was literally raised from the dead on the third day. Those actions will never again be repeated.

So when Paul talks about us dying to sin, being buried with Him, and being raised up with Him, we know these things do not physically happen to us. But they happen spiritually in our hearts. Paul calls it the circumcision of our hearts, the circumcision of Christ, "made without hands" - that is, nothing physical is required, no human hands are needed, because Christ Himself performs this "surgery", which is synonymous with being born again.

You are adding to the Scripture when you say that there is nothing physical required. That is not what the verse says. It says that the circumcision done without hands (by the Holy Spirit) happens IN (or during) baptism.

Therefore to suggest that this spiritual surgery cannot occur apart from another man physically immersing us in water - is to add to the work of Christ.

No, it is not.

This false suggestion means that no one can be saved without having another person physically there, to immerse us in water. A person stranded on a raft in the ocean cannot be saved, a person in solitary confinement cannot be saved. A lone astronaut in a spacecraft cannot be saved.

It also says that they cannot believe without a preacher (Rom 10:14). So suggesting that someone in any of these cases could be saved is erroneous.

Or even several astronauts in the space station cannot be saved, because immersion in water is impossible in a weightless state. A person lost in the forest cannot be saved. A person in traction in a hospital cannot be saved. A dying, fragile elderly person in a nursing home cannot be saved. If a man's parachute fails, and as he is falling to his death he prays to be spiritually saved - well, it's too late, because he cannot be baptized. If an airplane has a mid-air collision with another airplane, and both planes are falling to the ground, can those people cry out to God for spiritual salvation? Well, yes, but according to some, it won't help, because they would have to be baptized before they hit the ground. A person stranded in a burning building cannot be spiritually saved. A person in a car accident, trapped in their vehicle cannot be born again. All the people on the sinking Titanic, waiting in terror to die, could not be born again, because they could not be baptized.

This is where false and legalistic doctrine takes us - to absurdity! We cannot be deceived by it.

Again, you are trying to argue that there are exceptions to the rule God set in place, and that because there are exceptions the rule is invalid. Nothing could be further from the truth. Were there exceptions to God's commands not to take anything from the plunder of Jericho? I could list hundreds of examples of God's demand for complete obedience, not half measures, or just intellectual assent to His commands.

This is the absurdity of humanistic reasoning, and you are right that we should not be deceived by it.

Presumption is all you have? Even if Abraham did that, that would not cause God to declare Him righteous. Because the verse says that He declares righteous only "the one who does NOT work"

No, I am presuming only what actions it was that were part of Abraham's faith. He had faith, and that faith is what caused God to declare him righteous, and as we have discussed ad-nauseam, faith MUST have action or it is dead, non-existent, worthless, and irrelevant.

You're getting warmer - it's our faith that brings forgiveness and salvation.

Jesus declared that salvation had already come to Zaccheus' house, just on the basis of Zaccheus' statement. He had not yet given anything away, nor had he made restitution of anything stolen. Jesus also declared "he, too, is a son of Abraham." That means he had faith. So, the answer is, other than faith, Zaccheus did nothing.

Faith is not "action free". If there is no action then there is no faith.

NO actions are recorded in Acts 13:12, 38-39, 48; Acts 10:43; Acts 15:8-9, 11; Acts 26:18.
But in each of these, what IS RECORDED is their belief, their faith.

The fact that "faith" is recorded means that actions were recorded. Which particular actions were taken that lead to salvation are not recorded in those passages, they are recorded elsewhere, but they are referenced in the fact that it is recorded that these people had faith.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You are adding to the Scripture when you say that there is nothing physical required. That is not what the verse says. It says that the circumcision done without hands (by the Holy Spirit) happens IN (or during) baptism.

this is when we need to think. just stop what we are doing and think.

Paul says the circumcision is not done by the hand of men but by God.

He says it was done at baptism, and by whom (the one who rose christ from the dead)

Now a thinking man would think to himself. If it is not done by the hands of men, how can it be done by the hands of men when they baptize us in water.

and we would not even think of the idea because it contradicts itself.

 

[Doug Brents]

this is when we need to think. just stop what we are doing and think.

Paul says the circumcision is not done by the hand of men but by God.

He says it was done at baptism, and by whom (the one who rose christ from the dead)

Now a thinking man would think to himself. If it is not done by the hands of men, how can it be done by the hands of men when they baptize us in water.

and we would not even think of the idea because it contradicts itself.

No, it does not contradict itself. Did the cleansing of Naaman happen 100% by the power and action of God? Absolutely it did. Yet it would not have happened if he had not dipped in Jordan the seventh time. If he had stopped dipping on the sixth dip and done no more, he would have died a leaper. The same can be said of the walls of Jericho and Israel's marching around it. And again with the widows, one who gave her last food to the prophet and the other who poured oil into all the jars she could borrow. And there are many, many more stories that demonstrate this truth.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No, it does not contradict itself. Did the cleansing of Naaman happen 100% by the power and action of God? Absolutely it did. Yet it would not have happened if he had not dipped in Jordan the seventh time. If he had stopped dipping on the sixth dip and done no more, he would have died a leaper. The same can be said of the walls of Jericho and Israel's marching around it. And again with the widows, one who gave her last food to the prophet and the other who poured oil into all the jars she could borrow. And there are many, many more stories that demonstrate this truth.

Yes it does contradict itself.

NOT BY THE HANDS OF MEN.

water baptism is done by the hands of men.

And it also states clearly,

12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Your pastor did not raise jesus from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Your pastor did not nail the law to the cross. nor did your pastor raise you from the dead. GOD DID

stop taking credit from God.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes it does contradict itself.

NOT BY THE HANDS OF MEN.

water baptism is done by the hands of men.

It doesn't say that baptism is what removes sin, nor does it say that the hands of men are what removes sin. The Holy Spirit removes sin IN/DURING baptism.

And it also states clearly,

12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Your pastor did not raise jesus from the dead.

The elders of the Church (pastors) did not raise Jesus from the dead. But it is "IN WHICH" (in baptism) that we are raised from the dead just as Jesus was, by the Holy Spirit.

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Your pastor did not nail the law to the cross. nor did your pastor raise you from the dead. GOD DID

stop taking credit from God.

The elders of the Church (pastors) did not nail the law to the cross nor did they raise me from the dead. You are right, God did. I am not taking anything away from God. I am saying, just as He told us, that He removes our sins through our faith (our obedience to His commands to repent (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38, John 3:5, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16, etc.).

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It doesn't say that baptism is what removes sin, nor does it say that the hands of men are what removes sin. The Holy Spirit removes sin IN/DURING baptism.

Having your sin removed is the process of circumcising's us spiritually by the hand of God. it is the reason WHY we are made alive 9the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life)

And it is done during baptism, the process of God baptizing us is the prossess of taking away our sin, or circumcising us of the filth.

its just not physical baptism or done in water. no water is involved

The elders of the Church (pastors) did not raise Jesus from the dead. But it is "IN WHICH" (in baptism) that we are raised from the dead just as Jesus was, by the Holy Spirit.

And they do not circumcise you either. nor do they raise you from the dead. GOD DOES THIS.

The elders of the Church (pastors) did not nail the law to the cross nor did they raise me from the dead. You are right, God did. I am not taking anything away from God. I am saying, just as He told us, that He removes our sins through our faith (our obedience to His commands to repent (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38, John 3:5, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16, etc.).

You are taking away something from god by declairing it is not he who baptizes you but some man,

 

[Doug Brents]

Having your sin removed is the process of circumcising's us spiritually by the hand of God. it is the reason WHY we are made alive 9the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life)

And it is done during baptism, the process of God baptizing us is the prossess of taking away our sin, or circumcising us of the filth.

its just not physical baptism or done in water. no water is involved

Not according to 1 Pet 3:21, where it says that the saving of the 8 through the water of the Flood is a foreshadowing of the saving of our souls through baptism in water by the power of the Holy Spirit through our faith.

And they do not circumcise you either. nor do they raise you from the dead. GOD DOES THIS.

You are taking away something from god by declairing it is not he who baptizes you but some man,

Being dipped in water is neither the cause nor the power behind the removal of sin. That is 100% wholly God. But He does it during water baptism as 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, Acts 22:16 and other passages state.

 

[dwight92070]

None of those verses say that, but 213 verses say otherwise.

 

[dwight92070]

Doug, you might as well take your marbles and go home. Your false doctrine has been exposed for what it is - legalism and absurdity.

Yours is the only "religion" that requires 2 people to get saved. The first is the one being saved. The second is the one facilitating that salvation, by physically baptizing the first. Where does the Bible say that 2 people are necessary to be saved, even after hearing the gospel preached?

You're not using your brain. A person stranded on a raft in the ocean, may have already heard the gospel preached, but not yet responded. So he could very probably decide to respond now that his life is in danger. But your doctrine offers hims no hope whatsoever, because there's no one there to baptized him. The same could be true for all the other situations I mentioned. Millions have heard the gospel, but not yet responded. A person in solitary confinement, astronauts in a space station, a person lost in the forest, a person in traction, a dying, fragile, elderly person, a man whose parachute failed, airline passengers in a mid-air crash, a person stranded in a burning building, a person in a car accident, trapped in their vehicle, the people on the Titanic.
All of these are very realistic - in fact, I would guess that many of these things have actually happened. But your false legalistic doctrine gives them no hope - which in itself exposes your belief as a sham.

 

[TomL]

Eph 4 Paul says there is one Spirit and one baptism. Correct interpretation requires words be understood by their literal, primary meaning....

The element of the baptism is clearly noted to be the one Spirit

Context does point to other than water

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Not according to 1 Pet 3:21, where it says that the saving of the 8 through the water of the Flood is a foreshadowing of the saving of our souls through baptism in water by the power of the Holy Spirit through our faith.

Being dipped in water is neither the cause nor the power behind the removal of sin. That is 100% wholly God. But He does it during water baptism as 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, Acts 22:16 and other passages state.

Do you listen to yourself?

Water baptism does not do it. But baptism does do it (1 peter 3)

When your words contradict themself. It should be the first warning you need to rethink what you believe

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug, you might as well take your marbles and go home. Your false doctrine has been exposed for what it is - legalism and absurdity.

Yours is the only "religion" that requires 2 people to get saved. The first is the one being saved. The second is the one facilitating that salvation, by physically baptizing the first. Where does the Bible say that 2 people are necessary to be saved, even after hearing the gospel preached?

You're not using your brain. A person stranded on a raft in the ocean, may have already heard the gospel preached, but not yet responded. So he could very probably decide to respond now that his life is in danger. But your doctrine offers hims no hope whatsoever, because there's no one there to baptized him. The same could be true for all the other situations I mentioned. Millions have heard the gospel, but not yet responded. A person in solitary confinement, astronauts in a space station, a person lost in the forest, a person in traction, a dying, fragile, elderly person, a man whose parachute failed, airline passengers in a mid-air crash, a person stranded in a burning building, a person in a car accident, trapped in their vehicle, the people on the Titanic.
All of these are very realistic - in fact, I would guess that many of these things have actually happened. But your false legalistic doctrine gives them no hope - which in itself exposes your belief as a sham.

Your presupposition is that man by default should be saved. But that is not the case. Man by default is lost, condemned, shut away from God, and dead. His only hope for salvation and new life is in Christ, and the ONLY way into relationship with Christ is through what HE says gets you into relationship with Him. And that is repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38). You want to shortcut His commands with your "easy believism" false doctrine. But "easy believism" is not supported by Scripture (even though there are 213 verses that only mention "belief/faith" in relation to salvation). Those passages are not in isolation from the rest of Scripture; in with these 213 verses, you must also include the passages that connect repentance, confession, and baptism (in water) with salvation. It is ALL of Scripture that must be considered, not just the passages that say what you already want to believe.

I will "take [my] marbles and go home" when the truth is taught in all congregations that claim to be part of the Church that Jesus died to redeem. Until then, I will continue to teach, preach, and advocate for the truth that we receive salvation during water baptism just as Scripture says.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The element of the baptism is clearly noted to be the one Spirit

Context does point to other than water

for by one spirit (the person doing the work) we were all baptized into one Body (the element we are baptized into - ie.. not water) (1 cor 12: 13)

 

[Doug Brents]

Do you listen to yourself?

Water baptism does not do it. But baptism does do it (1 peter 3)

When your words contradict themself. It should be the first warning you need to rethink what you believe

There is only one baptism in the NT Church (Eph 4:5-6). And that one baptism requires water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36). And it is during this one baptism in water that we receive forgiveness of sin (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14). There is NOTHING in Scripture that says that "spirit baptism" is connected to salvation.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

There is only one baptism in the NT Church (Eph 4:5-6)

Your right, there is only one baptism that saves.

But your wrong. there are many baptism in the New testament

the baptism that saves is the one John the baptist spoke of.. As he said, I indeed baptize with water. but there comes one mightier than I. He will baptize with the HS.

Sadly. it also says he will baptize with fire. Lets pray we are not part of this baptism. because this fire will never be quenched

. And that one baptism requires water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36).

No it does not.

And it is during this one baptism in water that we receive forgiveness of sin (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14). There is NOTHING in Scripture that says that "spirit baptism" is connected to salvation.

No. there is no water in romans or Colossians.

Rom 6: 3 ;Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ (not water) Jesus were baptized into His death (not water)? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death (not water),

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (not water) —whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[TomL]

for by one spirit (the person doing the work) we were all baptized into one Body (the element we are baptized into - ie.. not water) (1 cor 12: 13)

Men water baptize, not the Spirit

en is translated as either with, in or by

7 times we read the verb baptizo, the Greek preposition en, and the Holy Spirit

why should one example differ from the other 6?

It is the presence of the Holy Spirit which makes one a Christian not water

Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.