The Problem Of Judas Iscariot Why Did He Betray His Lord?

[Complete]

The Problem Of Judas Iscariot Why Did He Betray His Lord?

John 6:71​

He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon:​

he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.​

This Judas was the son of Simon (John 6:71), and Iscariot is Ish Kerioth, a man of Kerioth (Joshua 15:25). This was in Judah, so he was the only one of the 12 that was not a Galilean.

Judas was a chosen man, chosen to be one of the 12 (Luke 6:13). He was an ordained minister (Acts 1:17, Acts 1:20) . He went out with the other Apostles and cast out evil spirits and healed all manner of sickness and disease (Matt. 10:1).
He lived such an exemplary life that the other Apostles did not suspect anything was wrong, even at the last supper. To all appearances, he was the same as they were.

But he carried the bag (treasurer), and he was a thief (John 12:6). He had the love of money, and it got the best of him. So he began to take money from what he carried for the expenses of the little band and for the poor. But Judas really gave himself away at the feast when Mary anointed the feet of the Lord with some costly spikenard (a fragrant essential oil), and Judas just could not stand seeing that "waste" when it could have been sold and the money put in the bag (John 12:5).

Judas also tried to infect the rest of The Apostles with dissatisfaction but failed. He was so angry about this money slipping away from him that he resolved to hurry along the prophecies of Messiah, Who would set up His Kingdom and rule the world. If he could force Messiah to set up The Kingdom, then The Apostles would be co-rulers with Christ, and he could be treasurer of all the riches of The Kingdom. He thought if he could arrange for Jesus Christ to be captured, tried, convicted, and sentenced to death, The Lord would have to call the mighty angels from heaven and begin The Kingdom and fulfill the prophecies. So he plotted with the Jews to betray Christ.

Judas ate that last supper with his Lord and also had his feet washed at the supper. And as a special favor, the Lord took a piece of bread, dipped it in the bitter herbs, and handed it to Judas (John 13:26). No appeal could be made to Judas to turn him from his purpose. Right after the sop (the host or master of the house would give the sop, a small piece of bread dipped in the communal bowl to the person to whom He wanted to show His greatest love and esteem) was given to him, Satan entered into his heart, and Judas immediately left and went and betrayed his Lord.

When The Lord Jesus did not escape from His foes as Judas planned by forcing his Lord to show He was Messiah, Judas immediately awoke to what he had done and what had happened. He was not really a murderer; he was a moral man, except for his weakness for filthy lucre. So he repented and tried to undo what he had done by going to The Temple and bringing the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, but it was too late (Matt. 27:3-10). The money he had received from them he flung into the sanctuary, which the priests took to buy a potters field for graves.

The money he had been stealing he previously had used to buy a nice property outside Jerusalem. It would have been a nice place to live and commute to and from Jerusalem during The Kingdom, which he was expecting.

But to this nice place, he then went out and hanged himself. That place was avoided as cursed since then by the Jews who called it Aceldama, meaning the field of blood (Acts 1:18-20).

Scripture says that Judas was the betrayer and was called "the son of perdition," a type of antichrist. Another took his bishopric, Matthias. And, of course, his name will never be in the foundations of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:14). Acts 1:25 should read, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, that he might go to his own place, from which Judas by transgression fell.
Many a one has sold out for less than Judas did.

The Problem Of Judas Iscariot - Believer.com

John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. This Judas was the son of Simon (John 6:71...

believer.com

 

[Complete]

Hello @Johann,

You have indicated that you like the OP, and so do I: except for the fact that so much imagination has been exercised in it;s composition. The danger is that in doing so, we could colour the actions related with our own understanding to the detriment of truth.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Johann]

Hello @Johann,

You have indicated that you like the OP, and so do I: except for the fact that so much imagination has been exercised in it;s composition. The danger is that in doing so, we could colour the actions related with our own understanding to the detriment of truth.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

So I have noticed-we have discernment-to discern error from truth.
There are golden nuggets to be found everywhere.
Another reason I don't want to share links.
Shalom.
Johann.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Problem Of Judas Iscariot Why Did He Betray His Lord?

John 6:71​

He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon:​

he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.​

This Judas was the son of Simon (John 6:71), and Iscariot is Ish Kerioth, a man of Kerioth (Joshua 15:25). This was in Judah, so he was the only one of the 12 that was not a Galilean.

Judas was a chosen man, chosen to be one of the 12 (Luke 6:13). He was an ordained minister (Acts 1:17, Acts 1:20) . He went out with the other Apostles and cast out evil spirits and healed all manner of sickness and disease (Matt. 10:1).
He lived such an exemplary life that the other Apostles did not suspect anything was wrong, even at the last supper. To all appearances, he was the same as they were.

But he carried the bag (treasurer), and he was a thief (John 12:6). He had the love of money, and it got the best of him. So he began to take money from what he carried for the expenses of the little band and for the poor. But Judas really gave himself away at the feast when Mary anointed the feet of the Lord with some costly spikenard (a fragrant essential oil), and Judas just could not stand seeing that "waste" when it could have been sold and the money put in the bag (John 12:5).

Judas also tried to infect the rest of The Apostles with dissatisfaction but failed. He was so angry about this money slipping away from him that he resolved to hurry along the prophecies of Messiah, Who would set up His Kingdom and rule the world. If he could force Messiah to set up The Kingdom, then The Apostles would be co-rulers with Christ, and he could be treasurer of all the riches of The Kingdom. He thought if he could arrange for Jesus Christ to be captured, tried, convicted, and sentenced to death, The Lord would have to call the mighty angels from heaven and begin The Kingdom and fulfill the prophecies. So he plotted with the Jews to betray Christ.

Judas ate that last supper with his Lord and also had his feet washed at the supper. And as a special favor, the Lord took a piece of bread, dipped it in the bitter herbs, and handed it to Judas (John 13:26). No appeal could be made to Judas to turn him from his purpose. Right after the sop (the host or master of the house would give the sop, a small piece of bread dipped in the communal bowl to the person to whom He wanted to show His greatest love and esteem) was given to him, Satan entered into his heart, and Judas immediately left and went and betrayed his Lord.

When The Lord Jesus did not escape from His foes as Judas planned by forcing his Lord to show He was Messiah, Judas immediately awoke to what he had done and what had happened. He was not really a murderer; he was a moral man, except for his weakness for filthy lucre. So he repented and tried to undo what he had done by going to The Temple and bringing the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, but it was too late (Matt. 27:3-10). The money he had received from them he flung into the sanctuary, which the priests took to buy a potters field for graves.

The money he had been stealing he previously had used to buy a nice property outside Jerusalem. It would have been a nice place to live and commute to and from Jerusalem during The Kingdom, which he was expecting.

But to this nice place, he then went out and hanged himself. That place was avoided as cursed since then by the Jews who called it Aceldama, meaning the field of blood (Acts 1:18-20).

Scripture says that Judas was the betrayer and was called "the son of perdition," a type of antichrist. Another took his bishopric, Matthias. And, of course, his name will never be in the foundations of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:14). Acts 1:25 should read, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, that he might go to his own place, from which Judas by transgression fell.
Many a one has sold out for less than Judas did.

The Problem Of Judas Iscariot - Believer.com

John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. This Judas was the son of Simon (John 6:71...

believer.com

The problem with this thread...

To begin, if you thought this out, I commend you.
However, your conclusions about Judas are incorrect.
You are correct Jesus called Judas and "named him apostle." This is the first clue. There are no true called apostles of the Lord in "hell."

Judas "held the bag" which means he was treasurer of sorts, and yes, he was greedy for gain. And yes, he was at the Passover meal where Jesus gave bread and wine and told His disciples - Judas included - that his going to the cross was "for you." In other words, the atonement presented at the last super Jesus declares that his death is "for you" (the twelve.)

Also, Judas is not a "type of antichrist." Far from it. He was as Jesus said, "son of perdition" which means "son of ruin." The Greek word "perdition" carries with it three senses in which to understand the "ruin"" involved: physical ruin, spiritual ruin, and eternal ruin.

Since the Holy Spirit had not yet been given to the disciples as Jesus said He would. He was only able to give them the Comforter only after He left, thus it cannot mean spiritual ruin.
And being that Jesus gave His body and blood "for you" (Judas included) it cannot mean eternal ruin.
What's left of the three senses of the word perdition is physical ruin. Judas did go out and hang himself and it also says "his bowels gushed out" indicating the tree limb he attached the rope to broke and he fell down a ravine or of some height. So, being called "son of perdition/ruin" Jesus was referring to his self-destruction, his physical ruin, his physical death.

You also mention Matthias "replaced" Judas. First, Peter was in error. He was told to return to Jerusalem and "tarry" which means to "seat down" and this word in the context carries with it one of "non-action", to "wait" until endued with the Holy Spirit. But the text says Peter "stood up" and officiated a meeting in which one of two things may be the correct one. The chose Matthias to replace Judas to "hold the bag" or, Peter was appointing an apostle, something Scripture says is the prerogative of God. God baptizes into the body of Christ and gives each person their place in the body of Christ as well as their calling and spiritual gifts, and apostle is something God does, not man.
Other than my response to those things you said you stopped and considered a logical outcome but a couple of things you missed which I pointed out.

And although Judas AND Peter both betrayed their Master, Judas returned with the money in hopes of gaining Jesus' released for he saw He was condemned; Judas confessed his sin to the priests and rejected the mammon by throwing it into the priests faces. And for his sin of being complicit in the death of an innocent man (Jesus) the Law prescribed he be taken outside the city and stoned. But the priest told him, "See thou to that", which is another way of saying, "You handle it."
So, in obedience to the Law of Moses Judas went out and gave life for life in keeping with the Law.
Judas is with His Lord.
Matthew 27:3-5.

 

[Rowan]

The problem with this thread...

To begin, if you thought this out, I commend you.
However, your conclusions about Judas are incorrect.
You are correct Jesus called Judas and "named him apostle." This is the first clue. There are no true called apostles of the Lord in "hell."

Judas "held the bag" which means he was treasurer of sorts, and yes, he was greedy for gain. And yes, he was at the Passover meal where Jesus gave bread and wine and told His disciples - Judas included - that his going to the cross was "for you." In other words, the atonement presented at the last super Jesus declares that his death is "for you" (the twelve.)

Also, Judas is not a "type of antichrist." Far from it. He was as Jesus said, "son of perdition" which means "son of ruin." The Greek word "perdition" carries with it three senses in which to understand the "ruin"" involved: physical ruin, spiritual ruin, and eternal ruin.

Since the Holy Spirit had not yet been given to the disciples as Jesus said He would. He was only able to give them the Comforter only after He left, thus it cannot mean spiritual ruin.
And being that Jesus gave His body and blood "for you" (Judas included) it cannot mean eternal ruin.
What's left of the three senses of the word perdition is physical ruin. Judas did go out and hang himself and it also says "his bowels gushed out" indicating the tree limb he attached the rope to broke and he fell down a ravine or of some height. So, being called "son of perdition/ruin" Jesus was referring to his self-destruction, his physical ruin, his physical death.

You also mention Matthias "replaced" Judas. First, Peter was in error. He was told to return to Jerusalem and "tarry" which means to "seat down" and this word in the context carries with it one of "non-action", to "wait" until endued with the Holy Spirit. But the text says Peter "stood up" and officiated a meeting in which one of two things may be the correct one. The chose Matthias to replace Judas to "hold the bag" or, Peter was appointing an apostle, something Scripture says is the prerogative of God. God baptizes into the body of Christ and gives each person their place in the body of Christ as well as their calling and spiritual gifts, and apostle is something God does, not man.
Other than my response to those things you said you stopped and considered a logical outcome but a couple of things you missed which I pointed out.

And although Judas AND Peter both betrayed their Master, Judas returned with the money in hopes of gaining Jesus' released for he saw He was condemned; Judas confessed his sin to the priests and rejected the mammon by throwing it into the priests faces. And for his sin of being complicit in the death of an innocent man (Jesus) the Law prescribed he be taken outside the city and stoned. But the priest told him, "See thou to that", which is another way of saying, "You handle it."
So, in obedience to the Law of Moses Judas went out and gave life for life in keeping with the Law.
Judas is with His Lord.
Matthew 27:3-5.

Very interesting. I've always believed Judas Is with his Lord. Most people I've talked to about it don't but a few do.

 

[Complete]

'And in those days
Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said,
(the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled,
which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas,
which was guide to them that took Jesus.
For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity;
and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem;
insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama,
that is to say,' The field of blood'. For it is written in the book of Psalms,
'his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein:
and his bishoprick let another take.'
Wherefore of these men which have companied with us
all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Beginning from the baptism of John,
unto that same day that he was taken up from us,
must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection.
And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas,
who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
And they prayed, and said,
'Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men,
shew whether of these two Thou hast chosen,'
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship,
from which Judas by transgression fell,
that he might go to his own place.
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias;
and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. '
(Act 1:15-26)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

The study was not my own, and in hindsight, I wish I had not entered it, for the reason which I gave in reply#2

Thank you for responding to the OP. I find what you have said interesting
I can't agree with you that Peter was in error in regard to the choosing of Matthias , I read what you had to say concerning this in the thread that you devoted to it.

Matt. 10:1-4; Mar. 3:13-19; Luk.6:13-16 - The Twelve.
Matt. 26:14-16; Mar. 14:10-11; Luk.22:3-6 - Pact made with the chief priests to betray Jesus.
Matt.26:21-24; Mar.14:18-21; Joh.6:71; Joh.13:18-30 - Jesus announces that one of the twelve would betray Him.
John 12:4-8 -Judas complains about the waste of expensive ointment
John 13:2,11,
Matt. 26:25 - Jesus confirms Judas as the one who would betray Him.
Matt.26:46-50; Mar.14:41-42; Luk.22:47-48;Joh.18:1-11 - The betrayal
Matt.26:56; Mar.14:43; Luk.22:53 - The Scriptures must be fulfilled concerning Him.
Matt.27:3-5 - Judas repented, returned the money, and hung himself.
Matt.27:9 - Jeremiah's prophecy, spoken, not written.

* Jonah is in the grave awaiting resurrection along will all men. There is no life apart from resurrection.
* https://levendwater.org/companion/append161.html -' The Potter's Field'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

Very interesting. I've always believed Judas Is with his Lord. Most people I've talked to about it don't but a few do.

Most Gentile Christians have been indoctrinated by what I call Constantinian Gentile theology which began after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple and when more Gentiles were being saved. In their hatred for the Jews and not having a Jew or Hebrew Scriptures at hand in the beginning didn't know what to make of their salvation since they didn't have Scripture truth. And when they did access these manuscripts and saw the truth, they changed the truth of God for a lie and began to re-interpret the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile mindset and unmoored true, Biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots and created a new religion totally separated from its Hebrew origins.
By agreeing with Scripture concerning Judas I'm sure there are also other wholesome biblical truths you may hold or on the fringe of discovering and I will only say, you're not far from the kingdom of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

'And in those days
Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said,
(the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled,
which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas,
which was guide to them that took Jesus.
For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity;
and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem;
insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama,
that is to say,' The field of blood'. For it is written in the book of Psalms,
'his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein:
and his bishoprick let another take.'
Wherefore of these men which have companied with us
all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Beginning from the baptism of John,
unto that same day that he was taken up from us,
must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection.
And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas,
who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
And they prayed, and said,
'Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men,
shew whether of these two Thou hast chosen,'
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship,
from which Judas by transgression fell,
that he might go to his own place.
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias;
and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. '
(Act 1:15-26)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

The study was not my own, and in hindsight, I wish I had not entered it, for the reason which I gave in reply#2

Thank you for responding to the OP. I find what you have said interesting
I can't agree with you that Peter was in error in regard to the choosing of Matthias , I read what you had to say concerning this in the thread that you devoted to it.

Matt. 10:1-4; Mar. 3:13-19; Luk.6:13-16 - The Twelve.
Matt. 26:14-16; Mar. 14:10-11; Luk.22:3-6 - Pact made with the chief priests to betray Jesus.
Matt.26:21-24; Mar.14:18-21; Joh.6:71; Joh.13:18-30 - Jesus announces that one of the twelve would betray Him.
John 12:4-8 -Judas complains about the waste of expensive ointment
John 13:2,11,
Matt. 26:25 - Jesus confirms Judas as the one who would betray Him.
Matt.26:46-50; Mar.14:41-42; Luk.22:47-48;Joh.18:1-11 - The betrayal
Matt.26:56; Mar.14:43; Luk.22:53 - The Scriptures must be fulfilled concerning Him.
Matt.27:3-5 - Judas repented, returned the money, and hung himself.
Matt.27:9 - Jeremiah's prophecy, spoken, not written.

* Jonah is in the grave awaiting resurrection along will all men. There is no life apart from resurrection.
* https://levendwater.org/companion/append161.html -' The Potter's Field'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The Holy Spirit anticipated the false teaching concerning Judas, that he is lost apart from the God of his fathers (he was in the salvation covenant), which is why at least nearly a dozen times (I forget the number) in the gospels the Holy Spirit each time Judas is mentioned records that he was "one of the twelve." The Spirit doesn't do that with any or the other disciples. What's He trying to communicate? Well, that Judas was a true apostle and chosen by Jesus (the Lord doesn't choose 'devil-apostles') to be "with Him" (Mark.)

Peter was completely "in the flesh" when he disobeyed the Lord to tarry/wait, a word that carries with it the idea of not doing any "officiating" or presiding. If he'd just wait until the next day when the Day of Pentecost had fully come he would have chosen a different route. Most likely never have done what he led the others to do. So, if he was in the flesh then he leaned upon his own understanding in the vanity of his mind. He acted on his own. And for that the Gentile church has paid the cost of his error. And remember, the Acts of the Holy Spirit (the original name of the book of Acts) is historical. It is not written with the purpose of teaching doctrine, but recording what transpired the first thirty years of the Jewish Church. First thing the Gentile church did was change the name from Acts of the Holy Spirit to Acts of the Apostles. They changed it from a theocentric title to an anthropocentric title. What we do when we have a historical book or document in our hands, especially since more manuscripts are available, is look into the book or document to see what they got right and what they got wrong. Unless you are a part of CRT in our American schools today in which these radical teachers teach our fragile children's minds from a history book that THIS was wrong, and THIS was right. thus, indoctrinating our kids with a history of what THEY want them to believe. It's called manipulation pure and simple.
If you want to believe against the reasonable things I brought out in my response that's entirely up to you. But I used to believe what I had been taught early on from the pulpit and Gentile books until I put away childish things and learned to study the Word of Truth on my own under the anointing and saw something completely different in the Bible that was always there but when you hear a lie over and over you just take the lie as truth and your sources as trustworthy.
Boy, I was wrong about that.

 

[Rockson]

Very interesting. I've always believed Judas Is with his Lord. Most people I've talked to about it don't but a few do.

On what basis would you believe that?

 

[jeremiah1five]

On what basis would you believe that?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[Complete]

@jeremiah1five,
The Holy Spirit anticipated the false teaching concerning Judas, that he is lost apart from the God of his fathers (he was in the salvation covenant), which is why at least nearly a dozen times (I forget the number) in the gospels the Holy Spirit each time Judas is mentioned records that he was "one of the twelve." The Spirit doesn't do that with any or the other disciples. What's He trying to communicate? Well, that Judas was a true apostle and chosen by Jesus (the Lord doesn't choose 'devil-apostles') to be "with Him" (Mark.)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

*There was more than one person named Judas, and so whenever the name was used, an accompanying note of further identification is provided. When among the twelve, he was defined, retrospectively, by what he had yet to do / or had done.

* When among the multitude, or acting apart from the twelve, he is identified both in regard to who he is by name, or by the name of his Father, by his being one of the twelve or one of the Lord's disciples.

'Then Judas, which betrayed Him,
answered and said, Master, is it I?
He said unto him, Thou hast said.'
(Mat. 26:25)

'Then Judas, which had betrayed him,
when he saw that he was condemned,
repented himself,
and brought again the thirty pieces of silver
to the chief priests and elders,'
(Mat. 27:3)

'And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed Him:
and they went into an house.'
(Mar.3:19)

'And Judas the brother of James,
and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.'
(Luk.6:16)

'And while He yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came,
and with him a great multitude with swords and staves,
from the chief priests and elders of the people.'
(Mat. 26:47; Mark 14:43;Luke 22:47)

'And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve,
went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.'
(Mar.14:10)

'Jesus answered them,
Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon:
for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
(Joh.6:70-71)

'Then saith one of His disciples,
Judas Iscariot, Simon's son,
which should betray him,'
(Joh.12:4)

'supper being ended,
the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot,
Simon's son, to betray Him;'
(Joh.13:2)

' Jesus answered, He it is,
to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it.
And when He had dipped the sop,
He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
And after the sop Satan entered into him.
Then said Jesus unto him, "That thou doest, do quickly."'
(Joh 13:26-27)

'And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place:
for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with His disciples.
Judas then, having received a band of men
and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees,
cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons'
(Joh.18:2-3)

'They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus saith unto them, I am He.
And Judas also, which betrayed Him,
stood with them.'
(Joh.18:5)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

'That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship,
from which Judas by transgression fell,
that he might go to his own place.'
(Act 1:25)

Hello @jeremiah1five.

By transgression, Judas fell both from the ministry to which he had been called and from the position of an Apostle.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hello @jeremiah1five,

*There was more than one person named Judas, and so whenever the name was used, an accompanying note of further identification is provided. When among the twelve, he was defined, retrospectively, by what he had yet to do / or had done.

* When among the multitude, or acting apart from the twelve, he is identified both in regard to who he is by name, or by the name of his Father, by his being one of the twelve or one of the Lord's disciples.

'Then Judas, which betrayed Him,
answered and said, Master, is it I?
He said unto him, Thou hast said.'
(Mat. 26:25)

'Then Judas, which had betrayed him,
when he saw that he was condemned,
repented himself,
and brought again the thirty pieces of silver
to the chief priests and elders,'
(Mat. 27:3)

'And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed Him:
and they went into an house.'
(Mar.3:19)

'And Judas the brother of James,
and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.'
(Luk.6:16)

'And while He yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came,
and with him a great multitude with swords and staves,
from the chief priests and elders of the people.'
(Mat. 26:47; Mark 14:43;Luke 22:47)

'And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve,
went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.'
(Mar.14:10)

'Jesus answered them,
Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon:
for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
(Joh.6:70-71)

'Then saith one of His disciples,
Judas Iscariot, Simon's son,
which should betray him,'
(Joh.12:4)

'supper being ended,
the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot,
Simon's son, to betray Him;'
(Joh.13:2)

' Jesus answered, He it is,
to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it.
And when He had dipped the sop,
He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
And after the sop Satan entered into him.
Then said Jesus unto him, "That thou doest, do quickly."'
(Joh 13:26-27)

'And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place:
for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with His disciples.
Judas then, having received a band of men
and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees,
cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons'
(Joh.18:2-3)

'They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus saith unto them, I am He.
And Judas also, which betrayed Him,
stood with them.'
(Joh.18:5)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Knowing the hatred Gentiles would have towards one of the Lord's apostles the Holy Spirit would make sure that Judas as seen by God as one of the Lord's apostles, a true apostle, and one that was, except for his thievery, an observant Jew.

13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; 14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, 15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes, 16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. Lk 6:13–16.

I know better not to contradict the Lord. If He named Judas Iscariot an "apostle" then Judas was an apostle. What am I going to say? Judas was not an apostle and call Jesus a liar?

14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, Mk 3:14.

To "be with Him" implies intimacy.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. Mt 10:2–4.

14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, Mt 26:14.

10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them. Mk 14:10.

20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish. Mk 14:20.

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Jn 6:71.

43 And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve Mk 14:43.

47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came Mt 26:47.

47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve Lk 22:47.

3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Lk 22:3.

The name Yeshua (Joshua) was also an extremely popular name in Jewry but you don't see this signification assigned to Jesus.

I don't reject or make excuses for what Judas did, but what was it that he did? What was his betrayal? Do you know? His great, big sin which the entire world has condemned him to "hell" and eternal separation from God?

You know Jesus assigned "greater" sin and smaller sins, yes? Yes, all sin, as David said, is against God. But what's worse? Raping a woman or stealing a candy bar? What's worse, murder or bearing false witness? Do you know Jesus called Judas "friend?" There is only one other person whom God called "friend": Abraham. Now, that is a remarkably high association.

Judas wasn't the only one to sin against Jesus that night. The disciples all betrayed him when the ran away at Jesus' greatest need. Who had the greater sin, Peter, or Judas.
Peter denied the Lord, even outright rejected him three times before the cock crowed while Judas pointed Jesus out and said, the one I kiss, that's Him, that's the Christ, the One you want.

What was Judas' sin as accepted by the remaining disciples?

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. Acts 1:15–17.

Guide. No matter the object but is being a "guide" worse than child molestation? Or murder?

It says without ambiguity that Jesus "named Judas apostle." Later, after Saul came on the scene with his books and parchments and Scriptures, he says that only God can "make" an apostle (1 Cor. 12.) So, Christ "made" Judas an apostle, and not only that, but also assigned him the honor of having his name inscribed in the foundation of the wall of New Jerusalem (Rev. 21.)

When I was a babe in Christ, I took it for granted from books and sermons I heard of many people who talked badly about Judas, who taught he was in "hell." But when I became a man and learned to study on my own the Scripture with a good concordance (Strong's) and under the anointing the question of Judas Iscariot.
And having my doctrine in the right places I was able to come to the knowledge of the truth concerning him.

I suggest you study this question because if the Lord called and named Judas an apostle and we believe Judas was not an apostle, then we are contradicting the Lord and calling him a liar. And this sin would be the greater sin as opposed to merely being a "guide."
You must answer a couple of questions first:
1. Whether true apostles can be sent to "hell."
2. Whether friends of God and Christ can be sent to "hell."

Not many Christians know this, but the life of Judas Iscariot touches many major doctrines in Christendom. Doctrines such as "calling, ministry, the Law, grace, confession, repentance, sin, atonement, to name a few.
After studying the question of Judas many years ago I am convinced through Scripture that Judas Iscariot is with him Lord and Master.

 

[Complete]

Knowing the hatred Gentiles would have towards one of the Lord's apostles the Holy Spirit would make sure that Judas as seen by God as one of the Lord's apostles, a true apostle, and one that was, except for his thievery, an observant Jew.

13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; 14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, 15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes, 16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. Lk 6:13–16.

I know better not to contradict the Lord. If He named Judas Iscariot an "apostle" then Judas was an apostle. What am I going to say? Judas was not an apostle and call Jesus a liar?

14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, Mk 3:14.

To "be with Him" implies intimacy.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. Mt 10:2–4.

14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, Mt 26:14.

10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them. Mk 14:10.

20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish. Mk 14:20.

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Jn 6:71.

43 And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve Mk 14:43.

47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came Mt 26:47.

47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve Lk 22:47.

3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Lk 22:3.

The name Yeshua (Joshua) was also an extremely popular name in Jewry but you don't see this signification assigned to Jesus.

I don't reject or make excuses for what Judas did, but what was it that he did? What was his betrayal? Do you know? His great, big sin which the entire world has condemned him to "hell" and eternal separation from God?

You know Jesus assigned "greater" sin and smaller sins, yes? Yes, all sin, as David said, is against God. But what's worse? Raping a woman or stealing a candy bar? What's worse, murder or bearing false witness? Do you know Jesus called Judas "friend?" There is only one other person whom God called "friend": Abraham. Now, that is a remarkably high association.

Judas wasn't the only one to sin against Jesus that night. The disciples all betrayed him when the ran away at Jesus' greatest need. Who had the greater sin, Peter, or Judas.
Peter denied the Lord, even outright rejected him three times before the cock crowed while Judas pointed Jesus out and said, the one I kiss, that's Him, that's the Christ, the One you want.

What was Judas' sin as accepted by the remaining disciples?

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. Acts 1:15–17.

Guide. No matter the object but is being a "guide" worse than child molestation? Or murder?

It says without ambiguity that Jesus "named Judas apostle." Later, after Saul came on the scene with his books and parchments and Scriptures, he says that only God can "make" an apostle (1 Cor. 12.) So, Christ "made" Judas an apostle, and not only that, but also assigned him the honor of having his name inscribed in the foundation of the wall of New Jerusalem (Rev. 21.)

When I was a babe in Christ, I took it for granted from books and sermons I heard of many people who talked badly about Judas, who taught he was in "hell." But when I became a man and learned to study on my own the Scripture with a good concordance (Strong's) and under the anointing the question of Judas Iscariot.
And having my doctrine in the right places I was able to come to the knowledge of the truth concerning him.

I suggest you study this question because if the Lord called and named Judas an apostle and we believe Judas was not an apostle, then we are contradicting the Lord and calling him a liar. And this sin would be the greater sin as opposed to merely being a "guide."
You must answer a couple of questions first:
1. Whether true apostles can be sent to "hell."
2. Whether friends of God and Christ can be sent to "hell."

Not many Christians know this, but the life of Judas Iscariot touches many major doctrines in Christendom. Doctrines such as "calling, ministry, the Law, grace, confession, repentance, sin, atonement, to name a few.
After studying the question of Judas many years ago I am convinced through Scripture that Judas Iscariot is with him Lord and Master.

'That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship,
from which Judas by transgression fell,
that he might go to his own place.'
(Act 1:25)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

We are told in the verse (above) that Judas fell from the ministry and apostleship to which he had been called, by transgression, He was a traitor (Luke 6:16). That he repented is a matter of record (Matt.27:3). That the words of our Lord regarding him came true, is also on record, for he came to a horrible end.

'The Son of man goeth as it is written of Him:
but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed!
it had been good for that man if he had not been born.'
(Mat 26:24)

What judgment God makes regarding Judas, in that day when the secrets of men's hearts will be revealed, is not told us; and it is not for us to speculate. As far as where he is now, he is dead and buried, his spirit having gone back to God Who gave it, and only the power of the resurrection can raise him up, in that day of God's choosing.

Hell being the grave, the place of the dead.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

Good discussion about Judas. I like what I'm reading from both sides. @jeremiah1five you are giving all of us some good food for thought and to reevaluate and reconsider what we have been taught.

And I am also one of those who believes Peter jumped the gun in replacing judas. Jesus Himself appointed and hand picked His Apostles in Person.

 

[Complete]

Good discussion about Judas. I like what I'm reading from both sides. @jeremiah1five you are giving all of us some good food for thought and to reevaluate and reconsider what we have been taught.

And I am also one of those who believes Peter jumped the gun in replacing Judas. Jesus Himself appointed and hand picked His Apostles in Person.

Hello @civic,

On what grounds can you make that decision? Except by human deduction. For we are not told are we? Peter and the rest of the disciples had received 40 days instruction from the risen Christ concerning the Kingdom of God, who are we to determine that one so instructed, and to whom the keys of the kingdom had been given, had not also been instructed to do what he did. He had also, with the other disciples, received of the Holy Spirit from the risen Christ:-

'And when He had so said,
He shewed unto them His hands and His side.
Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then said Jesus to them again,
"Peace be unto you: as My Father hath sent Me, even so send I you."
And when He had said this, He breathed on them,
and saith unto them, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them;
and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."'
(Joh 20:20-23)

* They had been given great authority, hadn't they?

* It was also Pentecost, at which feast representatives of the twelve tribes would have been present, and therefore that there should be twelve Apostles present, each empowered to speak in the languages of those countries represented was important surely. The apostles who will one day sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes in that day to come.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

Hello @civic,

On what grounds can you make that decision? Except by human deduction. For we are not told are we? Peter and the rest of the disciples had received 40 days instruction from the risen Christ concerning the Kingdom of God, who are we to determine that one so instructed, and to whom the keys of the kingdom had been given, had not also been instructed to do what he did. He had also, with the other disciples, received of the Holy Spirit from the risen Christ:-

'And when He had so said,
He shewed unto them His hands and His side.
Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then said Jesus to them again,
"Peace be unto you: as My Father hath sent Me, even so send I you."
And when He had said this, He breathed on them,
and saith unto them, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them;
and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."'
(Joh 20:20-23)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

No one was born again of the Spirit until Pentecost. Jesus told them to wait until then when the H.S would be in them. Only then would the H.S. remind them of all the truth from Jesus teaching.

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

The new birth and the gospel.


Born of Water John 3

John 3:1-7. Lets look at the context of Jesus interaction with Nicodemus. All human beings have experienced natural birth on earth, if they expect to go to heaven, they must experience a supernatural spiritual birth from above. Nicodemus was a well educated religious leader who did not understand what the Saviour was talking about. Jesus was speaking about a spiritual birth, but Nicodemus thought of a physical birth.

The situation is no different today When you talk with people about being born again, they often begin to discuss their family's religious heritage, their church membership, religious ceremonies like baptism etc....Jesus being a patient teacher picked up on Nicodemus' words and further explained the new birth. To be "born of water" is to be born physically ("enter a second time into his mother's womb") but to be born again means to be born of the Spirit. Just as there are two parents for physical birth, so there are two for spiritual birth: the Spirit of God (John 3:5) and the Word of God (James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23-25). The Spirit of God takes the Word of God and, when the sinner believes, imparts the life of God.Jesus was not teaching that the new birth comes through water baptism. In the NT baptism is connected with death, not birth and no amount of physical water can cause a spiritual change in a person.

The emphasis in John 3:14-21 is on believing, because salvation comes through faith. John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Understanding Jesus teaching in John 3 on Born Again !

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

So lets go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- God causes us to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in both cases of birth God is the Active One and the one who is birthed is passive in the process.

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Now The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 by reading through and observing the passage :

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom

summary- just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so to does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again)

Ezekiel 18 declares : “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period. Scripture talks about 2 kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual. What other “kind of life” does the Bible talk about other than the life we are given in the flesh when we are born of the flesh, and eternal life which we are given when we are born of the Spirit? There is no other “kind of life” taught about in the Bible. When a man is born of the eternal Spirit, by the eternal Word of God, he is given eternal life. A man is regenerated when He is made alive with Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:5). Can a man be “made alive with Jesus Christ” apart from having Jesus Christ dwelling in him? Also, Paul explicitly states, “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. And if any man HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS.” (Rom. 8:9). We are born again THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD (1Peter 1:3). Can a man be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ actually rose again from the dead? No so Jesus in John 3 was not talking about spiritual life in the OT but the promise of the Spirit that would come at Pentecost when His spirit would be poured out upon all who believe in Him and become born again children of God from the preaching of the gospel and receiving Him as Lord.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

continued :

Did the disciples have the SEAL of the Holy Spirit? NO not until PENTECOST.

Ephesians 1
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

If you have not the Spirit you are none of His.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Corinthians 2
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

And here is a newsflash the disciples did not understand so many things prior to Pentecost as Jesus promised He would bring to remembrance the things He had taught them.

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

John 16:17-18
At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”

Jesus had told them NUMEROUS times about His passion yet they did not understand this until the Spirit was in them. Once again proving 1 Corinthians 2 the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Jesus Predicts His Death a Third Time

Luke 18:31
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem,and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him;33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”

34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about

I can provide NUMEROUS other scriptures showing the disciples did not understand Jesus teachings until after Pentecost when they became born again believers.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Complete]

No one was born again of the Spirit until Pentecost. Jesus told them to wait until then when the H.S would be in them. Only then would the H.S. remind them of all the truth from Jesus teaching.​

'And when He had so said,
He shewed unto them His hands and His side.
Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then said Jesus to them again,
"Peace be unto you: as My Father hath sent Me, even so send I you."
And when He had said this, He breathed on them,
and saith unto them, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them;
and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."'
(Joh 20:20-23)

Hello @civic,

Yet the verse above that I referenced in my previous post must not be ignored. The eleven received the Holy Ghost from the risen Christ, prior to Pentecost's empowerment regarding tongues etc.,

John 7:39​

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.​

​

John 12:16​

At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.​

​

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.​

​

John 14:26​

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you​

​

John 16:7​

"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."​

​

John 16:13​

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.​

​

The new birth and the gospel.​

​

Born of Water John 3​

​

John 3:1-7. Lets look at the context of Jesus interaction with Nicodemus. All human beings have experienced natural birth on earth, if they expect to go to heaven, they must experience a supernatural spiritual birth from above. Nicodemus was a well educated religious leader who did not understand what the Saviour was talking about. Jesus was speaking about a spiritual birth, but Nicodemus thought of a physical birth.​

​

The situation is no different today When you talk with people about being born again, they often begin to discuss their family's religious heritage, their church membership, religious ceremonies like baptism etc....Jesus being a patient teacher picked up on Nicodemus' words and further explained the new birth. To be "born of water" is to be born physically ("enter a second time into his mother's womb") but to be born again means to be born of the Spirit. Just as there are two parents for physical birth, so there are two for spiritual birth: the Spirit of God (John 3:5) and the Word of God (James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23-25). The Spirit of God takes the Word of God and, when the sinner believes, imparts the life of God.Jesus was not teaching that the new birth comes through water baptism. In the NT baptism is connected with death, not birth and no amount of physical water can cause a spiritual change in a person.​

​

The emphasis in John 3:14-21 is on believing, because salvation comes through faith. John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.​

​

Understanding Jesus teaching in John 3 on Born Again !​

​

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”​

​

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”​

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”​

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked​

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?​

​

So lets go through this point by point.​

​

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)​

2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )​

3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )​

4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases​

5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to​

6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)​

7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)​

8- God causes us to be born again​

9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work​

10- in both cases of birth God is the Active One and the one who is birthed is passive in the process.​

​

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.​

​

Now The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 by reading through and observing the passage :​

​

1- the 2 births​

2- the wind and the spirit​

3- flesh and the spirit​

4- water and spirit​

5- earthly and heavenly things​

6- effects of both the wind and spirit​

7- the seen with the unseen​

8- the physical with the supernatural​

9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding​

10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom​

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summary- just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so to does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again)​

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Ezekiel 18 declares : “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period. Scripture talks about 2 kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual. What other “kind of life” does the Bible talk about other than the life we are given in the flesh when we are born of the flesh, and eternal life which we are given when we are born of the Spirit? There is no other “kind of life” taught about in the Bible. When a man is born of the eternal Spirit, by the eternal Word of God, he is given eternal life. A man is regenerated when He is made alive with Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:5). Can a man be “made alive with Jesus Christ” apart from having Jesus Christ dwelling in him? Also, Paul explicitly states, “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. And if any man HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS.” (Rom. 8:9). We are born again THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD (1Peter 1:3). Can a man be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ actually rose again from the dead? No so Jesus in John 3 was not talking about spiritual life in the OT but the promise of the Spirit that would come at Pentecost when His spirit would be poured out upon all who believe in Him and become born again children of God from the preaching of the gospel and receiving Him as Lord.​

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hope this helps !!!​

continued :​

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Did the disciples have the SEAL of the Holy Spirit? NO not until PENTECOST.​

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Ephesians 1​

When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.​

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If you have not the Spirit you are none of His.​

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Romans 8:9​

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.​

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1 Corinthians 2​

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.​

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And here is a newsflash the disciples did not understand so many things prior to Pentecost as Jesus promised He would bring to remembrance the things He had taught them.​

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John 15:26​

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.​

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John 16:7​

But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.​

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John 16:13-14​

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.​

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John 16:17-18​

At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”​

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Jesus had told them NUMEROUS times about His passion yet they did not understand this until the Spirit was in them. Once again proving 1 Corinthians 2 the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.​

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Matthew 16:8-11​

Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?​

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Mark 7:18​

And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;​

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Jesus Predicts His Death a Third Time​

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Luke 18:31​

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem,and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him;33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”​

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34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about​

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I can provide NUMEROUS other scriptures showing the disciples did not understand Jesus teachings until after Pentecost when they became born again believers.​

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hope this helps !!!​

Frankly, @civic, no it does not help. For this does not address the decision of Peter regarding the apostleship from which Judas fell.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

'And when He had so said,
He shewed unto them His hands and His side.
Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then said Jesus to them again,
"Peace be unto you: as My Father hath sent Me, even so send I you."
And when He had said this, He breathed on them,
and saith unto them, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them;
and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."'
(Joh 20:20-23)

Hello @civic,

Yet the verse above that I referenced in my previous post must not be ignored. The eleven received the Holy Ghost from the risen Christ, prior to Pentecost's empowerment regarding tongues etc.,




Frankly, @civic, no it does not help. For this does not address the decision of Peter regarding the apostleship from which Judas fell.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Peter was operating in the flesh like the others until Pentecost. They didn’t understand the gospel until then.