On The Question of Matthias

Fred said:
being binding because all of it has been abrogated.
Click to expand...
You still not getting what God did.
The Law is written on stone. The Law is now written on fleshly tables of the heart of those in covenant with God through the Presence of the Holy Spirit within the believer. HE is the Law God promised to put in the inward parts of covenant Israel.
The Law has always been spiritual.
And in the Person of the Holy Spirit the Law in Him has been put in the inward parts of a born-again believer. To the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The whole purpose of God creating man is to eventually dwell within the person and commune with Him.
A lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world which enabled God to create sinful man, and a lamb was slain in time which enabled God to dwell in man (in part.)
When all is said and done, and Christ reigns eternal God will dwell within His people with presumably no limit.
The stamp of God on His people is the Law written in their hearts by which they are led and guided from within as opposed to the Law written in stone that led and guided His people from without. The Law is not abrogated, it is manifested in a spiritual way in a spiritual person as result of the cross and call of God, those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. The Law is not abrogated, it is still in effect in the believer. It is written in their heart. It now instructs in righteousness (righteous living.)
 
Fred said:
Which God said He abrogated in Hebrews 8:13.

You still aren't getting it.
Click to expand...
The Law was ADDED (to the Abrahamic Covenant) because of transgressions (sin).
The whole conversation in Hebrews 8 is dealing with the Tabernacle, the high priest, sin, and salvation in general.

Yoiu quote:

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Heb. 8:13.

The writer of Hebrews in discussing the Old Covenant says that God is bringing in a "better" New Covenant in which to deal with sin/transgressions of Jacob (Israel) and this New Covenant is described in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and will be the basis by which God removes the transgressions of His people Israel. The Law's use towards transgression and sin - now take note: IS READY to vanish away (but hasn't) because it is necessary to Israel for God's purpose because a part of the New Covenant requires "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: For they shall all know me, From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more. (Jer. 31:34) as this "ALL-KNOWING each other and the LORD" takes place at the end times where it will no longer be necessary "to know the Lord" through teaching but direct revelation and saving manifestation of God. IN THE MEANTIME the Law is being used by God for instruction in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:17) for the Jewish born-again believer (I say "Jewish" because it is a Jewish covenant and a Jewish Messiah and the covenant deals with them - NOT uncircumcised Gentiles.)
The Mosaic Covenant is still in place for Israel and portions of the New Covenant has been enacted, such as the giving of the Holy Spirit who is the Mosaic Law personified because there are no new Laws and the old Laws are sufficient for God to them.
 
Fred said:
Which contradicts being abrogated in Hebrews 8:13.

You have figured out how to disagree with Hebrews 8:13.
Your loss.
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7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee Gen. 17:6–7.

I think you should focus and get your doctrinal beliefs from the original sources rather than from other people merely discussing the original sources, like Saul, who is contradicting God's Word in the long-established Hebrew Scriptures.

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Ex. 31:15–18.

So let it be written, so let it be done.
 
jeremiah1five said:
like Saul, who is contradicting God's Word
Click to expand...

Which proves you are a heretic.


jeremiah1five said:
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Ex. 31:15–18.

So let it be written, so let it be done.
Click to expand...

The everlasting covenant in which physical circumcision was required is not necessary anymore (1 Corinthians 7:19).

When will you ever learn?
 
Fred said:
Which proves you are a heretic.




The everlasting covenant in which physical circumcision was required is not necessary anymore (1 Corinthians 7:19).

When will you ever learn?
Click to expand...
The Law is spiritual. But it was given to a fleshly people who were not spiritual. That's why the letter kills. But in our conversion, we become a spiritual people and are joined to a Holy Spirit and the Law fulfilled by Christ is applied to us as though we have fulfilled the Law which is the basis of our justification.
Now, it's clear that Moses wrote that God wrote and spoke the Law to His people and said in two places His covenants were "everlasting" and "for ever."
Saul says the Law was abrogated in Hebrews 8:13 and that would make HIM a heretic, but he is being misunderstood by people like you. Misunderstood.
The part of the Law abrogated has to do with sacrifice as the author of Hebrews (Saul) also said "Christ died once for all (those in covenant which is Israel)" and there is no place for sacrifice anymore. This is the application and understanding to his words about the Law being abrogated. The same thing occurs where he says, "we are not under law but grace." We are not under the Law - the Sacrificial Law - as Christ fulfilled that in Himself and there is no more place for sacrifice for sin in this respect, but we are still under the Law which has been put in the our inward parts of those with whom God made covenant, mainly, Israel, and we still are under the Law to not have other gods before us and to not take the Name of the Lord in vain and other commands. These have been fulfilled in and by Christ and with His being within us God sees us as also having fulfilled every aspect of His Law.
Beginning with Noah God has made covenant with a chosen, specific family of people, a people that would in time be called (the children of) Israel. For it is this people God has covenant. And His covenants are revelatory and build upon each other until Christ should appear. Add to that the prophecies and a whole view of God's Redemptive Plan becomes clear and clearer.
God knows what's best for His people and since God made no covenant with Gentiles it's erroneous for Gentiles who become born-again to try to insert themselves in a covenant or covenants in which they are not mentioned nor alluded to when the covenants were made. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham and cannot be Abraham's seed whether in the natural or spiritual for again, God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles or the seed of Gentiles. The distinction between God's Chosen people and non-covenant Gentiles is the existence of Covenant which uncircumcised Gentiles never had. Later, God gave a covenant that included a token or sign to all the world of the existence of God and a reminder to His people of that covenant as all the men had to do was look down upon their member and see the proof of their covenant for the Jewish people are God's witness to the world that He exists.

If you take the author of Hebrews words that the Law is abrogated, then you have circumcised God from His covenant people and make Saul a heretic. But thankfully, that is not the meaning nor the understanding of Saul's words.
The Law is spiritual. Thus, the Law as applied to Israel - especially a born-again Israel - is their link in the natural and spiritual to Abraham and the Mosaic and New Covenants.
You need to study this further and stop trying to understand the Jewish Scripture and their covenants with a Gentile mindset which is very, very evident in your understanding.
Where are your accusers?
Neither do I accuse you.
Now Go, sin no more.
 
jeremiah1five said:
The Law is spiritual. But it was given to a fleshly people who were not spiritual. That's why the letter kills. But in our conversion, we become a spiritual people and are joined to a Holy Spirit and the Law fulfilled by Christ is applied to us as though we have fulfilled the Law which is the basis of our justification.
Now, it's clear that Moses wrote that God wrote and spoke the Law to His people and said in two places His covenants were "everlasting" and "for ever."
Saul says the Law was abrogated in Hebrews 8:13 and that would make HIM a heretic, but he is being misunderstood by people like you. Misunderstood.
The part of the Law abrogated has to do with sacrifice as the author of Hebrews (Saul) also said "Christ died once for all (those in covenant which is Israel)" and there is no place for sacrifice anymore. This is the application and understanding to his words about the Law being abrogated. The same thing occurs where he says, "we are not under law but grace." We are not under the Law - the Sacrificial Law - as Christ fulfilled that in Himself and there is no more place for sacrifice for sin in this respect, but we are still under the Law which has been put in the our inward parts of those with whom God made covenant, mainly, Israel, and we still are under the Law to not have other gods before us and to not take the Name of the Lord in vain and other commands. These have been fulfilled in and by Christ and with His being within us God sees us as also having fulfilled every aspect of His Law.
Beginning with Noah God has made covenant with a chosen, specific family of people, a people that would in time be called (the children of) Israel. For it is this people God has covenant. And His covenants are revelatory and build upon each other until Christ should appear. Add to that the prophecies and a whole view of God's Redemptive Plan becomes clear and clearer.
God knows what's best for His people and since God made no covenant with Gentiles it's erroneous for Gentiles who become born-again to try to insert themselves in a covenant or covenants in which they are not mentioned nor alluded to when the covenants were made. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham and cannot be Abraham's seed whether in the natural or spiritual for again, God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles or the seed of Gentiles. The distinction between God's Chosen people and non-covenant Gentiles is the existence of Covenant which uncircumcised Gentiles never had. Later, God gave a covenant that included a token or sign to all the world of the existence of God and a reminder to His people of that covenant as all the men had to do was look down upon their member and see the proof of their covenant for the Jewish people are God's witness to the world that He exists.

If you take the author of Hebrews words that the Law is abrogated, then you have circumcised God from His covenant people and make Saul a heretic. But thankfully, that is not the meaning nor the understanding of Saul's words.
The Law is spiritual. Thus, the Law as applied to Israel - especially a born-again Israel - is their link in the natural and spiritual to Abraham and the Mosaic and New Covenants.
You need to study this further and stop trying to understand the Jewish Scripture and their covenants with a Gentile mindset which is very, very evident in your understanding.
Where are your accusers?
Neither do I accuse you.
Now Go, sin no more.
Click to expand...

What a mess.
I'm not reading it.
 
Fred said:
His name is Paul.

Get it straight.
Click to expand...
I'm a Christ-follower and what Christ calls sin I call sin. What Christ calls good; I call good.
And if Christ called him Saul I will, too. Paul is his Gentile name to make him more acceptable to Gentiles.
An evangelistic gimmick. But Christ never changed his name.
God changed Abram to Abraham and Simon to Peter, but nowhere did God change Saul's name to Paul.
This is very straight.
 
jeremiah1five said:
Christ called him Saul. Christ did not change his name.
Saul, Saul, why did YOU change your name.
Click to expand...

Next time try not dodging the evidence I presented.

Here's more:
The God whom Paul serves sent an angel and Paul was addressed as...Paul.
If you want to tell the God whom Paul worshiped He is wrong that would be a foolish thing to do (Acts 27:24).

Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (God) also refers to Paul as...Paul.
If you want to tell the Holy Spirit that He is wrong then that would be another foolish thing to do to (2 Peter 3:15).
 
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Fred said:
Next time try not dodging the evidence I presented.

Here's more:
The God whom Paul serves sent an angel and Paul was addressed as...Paul.
If you want to tell the God whom Paul worshiped He is wrong that would be a foolish thing to do (Acts 27:24).

Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (God) also refers to Paul as...Paul.
If you want to tell the Holy Spirit that He is wrong then that would be another foolish thing to do to (2 Peter 3:15).
Click to expand...
There was no evidence to respond to but what you said which was incorrect.
I don't care who called that Pharisee Paul. IF Jesus calls him by his birth name, then so do I.
 
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