John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
It is all men, not some men
All drawn
The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel
- Thread starter civic
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It is all men, not some men
All drawn
You did see the word enable?
Adam had the ability the hear. Yet he fell anyway. ... or could have stayed righteous. ...
Thus the miracle of hearing doesn't guarantee a positive choice. He merely now has a libertarian option when he didn't have it before.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
brightfame52
Active Member
All the elect
brightfame52
Active Member
Man sinned in Adam and became dead
brightfame52
Active Member
I agree with those verses
There is no word elect in the passage
John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
It is all men, not some men
All drawn
According to scripture concerning now
John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
Yes
brightfame52
Active Member
That's right
brightfame52
Active Member
The word Elect don't have to be in the passage for it to be the elect, the word all serves the same
brightfame52
Active Member
The answer is no according to Jn 6:44, 65
Whosoever
Active Member
The concept of being drawn to Christ by the gospel is rooted in the belief that God actively draws individuals to salvation through the Holy Spirit. This drawing is not a passive response but an initiative from God Himself, as seen in John 6:44, where Jesus states that no one can come to Him unless the Father who sent Him draws them. The drawing is a result of God's love and compassion, as demonstrated through Jesus' interactions with sinners and the marginalized. The gospel message, delivered through inspired men, is the means by which God draws people to faith in Christ.
civic
Active Member
Yep
civic
Active Member
Nope not dead the way you mean it
Amos
Active Member
That is a very good example of how Calvinists change the true meaning of words.
Examples of reinterpretations by Calvinists
- "Whosoever will": Some argue that Calvinists interpret this phrase, which traditionally means anyone who accepts the offer of salvation, as meaning "whosoever God has willed to be saved," thus limiting the scope of the offer.
- Sovereignty: The word "sovereignty" is often cited as an example. While the general definition of sovereignty involves God's right to rule, Calvinism is said to define it as God's absolute, deterministic control over every single event, good and evil, which critics argue is a departure from the general meaning and biblical usage.
- Foreknowledge: Some Calvinists are accused of conflating God's foreknowledge with predetermination. Critics say this redefines "foreknew" (as in "God foreknew you") to mean God "determined" your actions and fate before you were even created.
- Love: Some critics claim that Calvinists redefine God's love as a love that is only truly applicable to the "saints" or the elect, rather than a universal love for all humanity, which is a common interpretation of verses like John 3:16.
- Permission: A specific example is given regarding the word "permission." Critics say that Calvinism has introduced qualifiers like "bare" or "mere" permission to distinguish God's act of permitting evil from his predetermining it. In the view of critics, Calvinists are altering the meaning of "permission" to fit their theology.
brightfame52
Active Member
The drawing is God's saving power, once God draws you you're saved, it's the powerful application of salvation.
brightfame52
Active Member
Dead like this Rom 5:15
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Dead in trespasses and sin Eph 2:5 that is a spiritual death
Cyrus
Active Member
That is so wrong.
God does the drawing to salvation found in the hearing of the gospel message. We who are drawn have a passive role in the process. There is no doubt that we respond to His drawing us, but we must choose to except or reject the gospel message once we are drawn.
