The Most Hated Christian Doctrine
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Good to see you Rogue.
The appeal to Puritans in the video is a little self serving. Puritans have long disagreed with one another. For example, some Puritans hated the KJV. Contrarily, some Puritans actually helped translate the KJV when King James was openly hostel to Calvinists.
Also, The Gospel is not hated by the poor.
Luk 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
There is little doubt we are guilt. Guilty both in desires and guilty in deeds. I believe McAuthur here is conflating. If you ask a drug addict that has totally wasted their lives and destroy the lives of others if they are guilty, you will no doubt find many that believe they are. This life exposes our condition of guilt. Likewise, our natural failures teach us of our own inabilities. The poor are in a unique position to recognize the reality of their existence. The rich build large cathedrals and surround themselves with "yes men" just like the Pharisees in the time of our Lord. When Jesus appealed to the "world hating Him".... He was talking about those who controlled this world. The rich. The powerful. Those that enslave others with their systems. The downtrodden soon learn there is little to no hope in such men.
The very fact that we can naturally discern some semblance of our own condition illustrate how some Calvinists overstate the doctrine of Total Depravity. The Gospel is light in darkness. The darker the night the more distinct the light. If it were not for the Gospel, non would have any hope.
The appeal to Puritans in the video is a little self serving. Puritans have long disagreed with one another. For example, some Puritans hated the KJV. Contrarily, some Puritans actually helped translate the KJV when King James was openly hostel to Calvinists.
Also, The Gospel is not hated by the poor.
Luk 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
There is little doubt we are guilt. Guilty both in desires and guilty in deeds. I believe McAuthur here is conflating. If you ask a drug addict that has totally wasted their lives and destroy the lives of others if they are guilty, you will no doubt find many that believe they are. This life exposes our condition of guilt. Likewise, our natural failures teach us of our own inabilities. The poor are in a unique position to recognize the reality of their existence. The rich build large cathedrals and surround themselves with "yes men" just like the Pharisees in the time of our Lord. When Jesus appealed to the "world hating Him".... He was talking about those who controlled this world. The rich. The powerful. Those that enslave others with their systems. The downtrodden soon learn there is little to no hope in such men.
The very fact that we can naturally discern some semblance of our own condition illustrate how some Calvinists overstate the doctrine of Total Depravity. The Gospel is light in darkness. The darker the night the more distinct the light. If it were not for the Gospel, non would have any hope.
civic
Well-known member
Mac was one of my favorites and I still have most of his books. As a calvinsit my beliefs lined up with his to a tee. I was also a dispensatinalist like him who saw a difference between Israel and the church. I'm no longer a calvinist as of 2 years ago. But I was one for just over 40 years of my Christian life.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
There are many verses in the Bible that describe total depravity. There is no one righteous, no one who seeks after God, no, not one. The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. I think those verses predate Augustine.
civic
Well-known member
oh I agree with you about those passages I was talking abut the doctrine established by augustine and that those before him in the ECF's did not affirm TD.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Something to consider.....
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Notice the "gone out of the way".... "they have become"......
Which is an indication of someone previously being righteous.
We must then ask, who exactly was righteous?
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Notice the "gone out of the way".... "they have become"......
Which is an indication of someone previously being righteous.
We must then ask, who exactly was righteous?
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