How/why does a loving God hate.

brightfame52 said:
@Bob Carabbio

Conditions for whom ?
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Who's "elect", and who ain't, for one. Read Rom 9. Since I've been "Born Again" for the last 60 years, I'm "Elect", but I didn't know that BEFORE I was Born again - nobody did. Nobody knows anything about it until after. The Evangelist has no choice, but to consider EVERYBODY as "Potentially Elect".
brightfame52 said:
And why would the conditions be hidden secret ?
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Because they're HIS reasons/criteria, He doesn't share 'em, and He doesn't tell us why. HEY!!! It's just another one of the infinite number of things we DON'T KNOW about Him and his creation, and generally couldn't understand anyway. HE tells us that He's well above our Human ability to understand. That's fine by me.

How much tonnage it's gonna take to form the part that I'm designing the tooling for right now is much more important in the practical sense.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
Who's "elect", and who ain't, for one. Read Rom 9. Since I've been "Born Again" for the last 60 years, I'm "Elect", but I didn't know that BEFORE I was Born again - nobody did. Nobody knows anything about it until after. The Evangelist has no choice, but to consider EVERYBODY as "Potentially Elect".

Because they're HIS reasons/criteria, He doesn't share 'em, and He doesn't tell us why. HEY!!! It's just another one of the infinite number of things we DON'T KNOW about Him and his creation, and generally couldn't understand anyway. HE tells us that He's well above our Human ability to understand. That's fine by me.

How much tonnage it's gonna take to form the part that I'm designing the tooling for right now is much more important in the practical sense.
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Lol, I think its something you made up. All the conditions for the Salvation of a sinner was performed by Jesus Christ the Surety of the Covenant. Are you implying what He did wasnt sufficient to save His People from their sins ? Or the sinner must perform some secret condition
 
brightfame52 said:
Lol, I think its something you made up. All the conditions for the Salvation of a sinner was performed by Jesus Christ the Surety of the Covenant. Are you implying what He did wasnt sufficient to save His People from their sins ?
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Nope. Jesus provided the SIN OFFERING that potentially cleanses anybody that has (Biblical) FAITH in it to accomplish it's purpose.
brightfame52 said:
Or the sinner must perform some secret condition
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The "sinner" must "Call upon God in FAITH" and in repentance which is the "Condition", but hardly any Secret. Heb 4:2 indicated the necessity of going to God IN FAITH. No FAITH = no provision. Speaking the "Sinner's prayer" by rote, or getting baptised as a "Religious event" accomplishes NOTHING.

AND Romans 10:17 applies: FAITH is the result of God's WORD to YOU, which manifests as CONVICTION OF SIN. In my case he showed me (brought to my mind) a couple of things that were definite SINS, just to get me focused.
 
brightfame52 said:
Lol, I think its something you made up. All the conditions for the Salvation of a sinner was performed by Jesus Christ the Surety of the Covenant. Are you implying what He did wasnt sufficient to save His People from their sins ? Or the sinner must perform some secret condition
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There is no "Secret" condition. All man has sinned and are in need of repentance because we were all dead in trespasses and sins, Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The Jesus "of the Bible" tells men;

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
This same Christ, the Rock of Israel, promoted the Same Gospel to Israel.

Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Paul promotes the same Gospel.
Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that "ye" put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

So there is no "Secret condition". God has shown all men, so there is no excuse.

Rom. 1: 17 For therein (Within the Gospel of Christ) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

How much more for us, who have the Oracles of God in our own homes.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
Nope. Jesus provided the SIN OFFERING that potentially cleanses anybody that has (Biblical) FAITH in it to accomplish it's purpose.

The "sinner" must "Call upon God in FAITH" and in repentance which is the "Condition", but hardly any Secret. Heb 4:2 indicated the necessity of going to God IN FAITH. No FAITH = no provision. Speaking the "Sinner's prayer" by rote, or getting baptised as a "Religious event" accomplishes NOTHING.

AND Romans 10:17 applies: FAITH is the result of God's WORD to YOU, which manifests as CONVICTION OF SIN. In my case he showed me (brought to my mind) a couple of things that were definite SINS, just to get me focused.
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See I dont agree, Jesus that I know by His Offering actually cleansed His People from their sins and then sat down at the Right Hand of Majesty Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The jesus you presnt is a potential cleanser, the Jesus I testify to is an actual cleanser, purifier of sin, then He gives the ones He did it for, Faith to be persuaded of it.
 
@Studyman

There is no "Secret" condition. All man has sinned and are in need of repentance because we were all dead in trespasses and sins,
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The Jesus I know , as a prince and saviour He gives repentance to His Elect and forgivenss of sins Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thats what a Saviour does, He saves to the uttermost, He doesnt leave it up to man, thats His Job as Saviour
 
brightfame52 said:
@Studyman



The Jesus I know , as a prince and saviour He gives repentance to His Elect and forgivenss of sins Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thats what a Saviour does, He saves to the uttermost, He doesnt leave it up to man, thats His Job as Saviour
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Yes, the Jesus you know. But I am interested in the Christ "Of the Bible". I posted His Words, spoken by Him as HE teaches me in the way that I should go. But it seems "many" who come in His Name, don't really believe in "that" Jesus. Paul warns of this as well.

Titus 1: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

According to the Jesus "of the Bible";

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I (The Jesus of the bible) profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Perhaps we should consider the actual Words of the Jesus "of the bible". It seems it is more important, according to HIM, that HE knows us, than preaching in His Name.
 
Studyman said:
Yes, the Jesus you know. But I am interested in the Christ "Of the Bible". I posted His Words, spoken by Him as HE teaches me in the way that I should go. But it seems "many" who come in His Name, don't really believe in "that" Jesus. Paul warns of this as well.

Titus 1: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

According to the Jesus "of the Bible";

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I (The Jesus of the bible) profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Perhaps we should consider the actual Words of the Jesus "of the bible". It seems it is more important, according to HIM, that HE knows us, than preaching in His Name.
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Okay !
 
praise_yeshua said:
There are reasons that God hates and that hatred is never relative to His own actions. NEVER. It is relative to the actions of those He actually loves.
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...as is suggested in Deuteronomy 32:5 They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children because of their blemish but a perverse and crooked generation.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Jealousy.

Jealousy is a complex subject. Jealousy involves both hate and love. As human beings, we are limited. Not only are we incomplete but we are immature in many things.

As humans we can both hate and love something but most of the time, hate wins. It is why Jesus said.....

Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Yet, with Divinity/Deity....... God is not limited as us. God is a jealous God. There are reasons that God hates and that hatred is never relative to His own actions. NEVER. It is relative to the actions of those He actually loves.

There is no Godly Jealousy without love.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with Godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ

Notice the appeal to "Godly Jealousy".

So when the Calvinist claims that God in Eternity past hated Esau without a cause (which is exactly what they claim).... they have no Scriptural basis to make such claims. Such claims come from their own limited abilities and carnality. It has nothing to do with God.

@civic @brightfame52 @The Rogue Tomato @makesends @synergy @TomL
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This looks like a good thread. I'm going to check it out and then try again with another OP I'm thinking of calling it "Does God love all or just some"

I know all the Calvinist always come up with that Esau claim.
 
Toby said:
This looks like a good thread. I'm going to check it out and then try again with another OP I'm thinking of calling it "Does God love all or just some"

I know all the Calvinist always come up with that Esau claim.
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I suppose they could claim that we are too loving.....

Esau loved Jacob. Jacob loved Esau. They proved it to one another. Both descendents of Jacob and Esau have acted differently. The same is true of Isaac and Ishmael.

I look forward to your response. Thanks
 
praise_yeshua said:
I suppose they could claim that we are too loving.....

Esau loved Jacob. Jacob loved Esau. They proved it to one another. Both descendents of Jacob and Esau have acted differently. The same is true of Isaac and Ishmael.

I look forward to your response. Thanks
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All I have a response after I study a little more but I really like the thread at Civic made on the same topic.

 
praise_yeshua said:
B. R. Lakin used to tell a story about a women he counseled that told him "If my children are in hell, I want to be with my children".

Do you feel the same way?

I suppose you believe Jacob loved Esau more than God did?
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Why would you ask something like that? Do you love your children more than you love God?
 

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