The Gospel of Twelve Thrones

Remember, Judas was under the Law. And he was a man who was obedient to the Law and to God.
He was a thief and a liar and became a murderer, so that’s at least 30% of the Ten Commandments. His actions certainly didn’t put God before any other gods, nor did they honor his parents. Oh, and I suppose stealing implies coveting things that aren’t yours, so we’re at least at a 60% failure rate. Hardly what can be considered to be “obedient to the Law and to God.”

Doug
 
The actions of a man reveal his heart. “Out of the heart the mouth speaks” and the desires of the heart are reflected by the actions taken.
He sold his “friend” and master into Roman custody for 30 pieces of silver! He also betrayed the trust of Jesus and the rest of the disciples by stealing from the money given to support Jesus’s ministry; money that he was in charge of maintaining and dispersing.
And how did he "sold his friend"? Yes, it was a betrayal of trust but stealing "from the bag" had nothing to do with what he did. Think.
Jer 31:31“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, ” declares the Lord.

This section foreshadows the New Testament era; a covenant of faith, not law.

33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
It does not foreshadow the "New Testament" era. And it was a covenant but faith is not a part or term of the New Covenant. And you'll notice Jeremiah does state the Law of God as an integral part of this New Covenant. It says that clearly.
This section is a crossover section: it beings with the New Testament and continues to this day where God instills his truth in those who believe and trust him to do that which he has promised to do.
You're not looking at it correctly. The writings came later, much later. Israel was the recipient of God's promises. Only Israel has the obligation as recipients of God's promises. God promised Gentiles nothing, but you want to add them to Israel's inheritance and this has no Scriptural support. All the prophets addressed Israel. Even Jonah. Yes, he recounts his involvement with Nineveh, but he wrote of his experience to the Jewish people, specifically, the southern kingdom. Nineveh never received any of Jonah's writings. Jonah recounts his ministry to God and he addressed his story to Judah.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord.

This section is not yet fulfilled, because the gospel is still being preached and taught to our “neighbors” and clearly, not everyone knows God.
That section has been fulfilled, is being fulfilled, and will be fulfilled even before Jesus returns. It is part of the covenant God made with Israel.
Thus, not all of this is yet fulfilled and while God is the only one who can establish a new covenant, it does not mean that he is the only one to act in the process. We still need to believe and trust in Him to do everything he has done and has promised to do in the future.

Doug
Why do you continue to add to the Bible things it never says? There is no faith mentioned in the New Covenant prophesy of Jeremiah. Israel doesn't need to do anything. They will believe their God, but faith is not required under this covenant.
 
Judas was dead before the resurrection (possibly before the crucifixion itself) and was known from then on as “the son of perdition”; essentially being called the son of Satan, which disqualifies him from being in heaven, much less sitting on a throne and judging others.


Doug
So, you are calling Jesus a liar? Jesus lied in telling the twelve disciples they were going to sit on twelve thrones - one for each disciple - and judge the twelve tribes?
Jesus never called him a "son of Satan." You are adding to the Bible. Do you even understand what "perdition" is and why Jesus said that to him? He did call Peter Satan, not son of, but actual Satan. This disqualifies Peter from heaven and the throne Jesus promised the twelve disciples. Here is Jesus' words again:

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28.

Jesus promised the twelve disciples - Judas included - a throne. This means Judas is saved and with Jesus right now. Why do you have such a bias against a fellow Christian? Would you like it if an unsaved loved one was told "you are disqualified from heaven" and "you're a son of Satan"? Jesus called Judas "Friend." There is only one other person to whom God called "Friend." It is Abraham. Are any of Jesus' friends in hell? Is that how God and His Christ treat His friends? I think you need to get rid of all those false Constantinian Gentile theologies you've been indoctrinated in and rely on a good translation, a good linguist, and the Holy Spirit to be led into all truth as I have done. I used to believe all that prejudice made against the Beloved of the Lord. But when I studied the question of Judas Iscariot as revealed in the Scripture, I began to see the truth.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Revelation 21:14.

Judas' name is immortalized in the wall of the foundation of New Jerusalem. What an honor.

I suggest you study the question of Judas Iscariot.

And until you come to the knowledge of the truth you should be very careful who you call "son of Satan." You just might be putting evil for good.
 
He was a thief and a liar and became a murderer, so that’s at least 30% of the Ten Commandments. His actions certainly didn’t put God before any other gods, nor did they honor his parents. Oh, and I suppose stealing implies coveting things that aren’t yours, so we’re at least at a 60% failure rate. Hardly what can be considered to be “obedient to the Law and to God.”

Doug
And you are giving false witness. That's 100% of the commandments. As a matter of fact, Judas did put God above other gods - even above mammon. But since you've never studied the question of Judas Iscariot, you will continue to put evil for good and remain a false accuser.

If you are honest with Scripture, you will see the truth about Judas as revealed in Scripture.
 
Don't forget that saints will judge the world and angels.

1 Corinthians 6:2-4 -Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?
But this judgment does not apply to salvation. From what Jeremiah said and what Jesus did, Israel is forgiven all her sins. That was the purpose - at least one of the purposes - for Jesus' coming the first time.
 
According to Mathhew and Luke Jesus promised the twelve disciples a throne. This is clearly recorded in Matthew and Luke's gospel. Twelve thrones in heaven with Jesus. It is inescapable.

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28.

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:28–30.

Are you going to ignore what Jesus says here? "That ye may eat and drink AT MY TABLE IN MY KINGDOM."
Why is this impossible to believe and accept. If you rightly divide the Word of God with sincerity and truthfulness it is not hard to believe and accept what Jesus promised His twelve disciples. But ONLY if you are honest with Scripture.
 
According to Mathhew and Luke Jesus promised the twelve disciples a throne. This is clearly recorded in Matthew and Luke's gospel. Twelve thrones in heaven with Jesus. It is inescapable.

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28.

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:28–30.

Are you going to ignore what Jesus says here? "That ye may eat and drink AT MY TABLE IN MY KINGDOM."
Why is this impossible to believe and accept. If you rightly divide the Word of God with sincerity and truthfulness it is not hard to believe and accept what Jesus promised His twelve disciples. But ONLY if you are honest with Scripture.
20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!”

If “woe to that man” means a throne in heaven, the other disciples are being despised for their faithfulness.

If “woe to that man” means a throne in heaven, then the parable of the sheep and the goats is meaningless and unjust.

If “woe to that man” means a throne in heaven, then the need for true repentance is vacated and the Calvinistic conception of absolute divine sovereignty, ie, ‘because I (God) am the only one with a choice’, is necessarily true.


Doug
 
but stealing "from the bag" had nothing to do with what he did. Think.
I said “He also betrayed the trust of Jesus and the rest of the disciples by stealing from the money given to support Jesus’s ministry; money that he was in charge of maintaining and dispersing”, which shows a pattern of behavior that ‘it was always about the money’ in Judas’ thinking. That is serving “mammon” above God. That’s why he complained about the woman with the alabaster box.

Doug
 
20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!”

If “woe to that man” means a throne in heaven, the other disciples are being despised for their faithfulness.

If “woe to that man” means a throne in heaven, then the parable of the sheep and the goats is meaningless and unjust.

If “woe to that man” means a throne in heaven, then the need for true repentance is vacated and the Calvinistic conception of absolute divine sovereignty, ie, ‘because I (God) am the only one with a choice’, is necessarily true.


Doug
The word "woe" is the Greek word for "grief." And grief is what Judas' acts did to him. Once he "saw" what he had done he repented and threw the 30 pieces of silver at the priests. And to further prove his repentance he went out and hung himself and died in obedience to the Word of God.

Did you know this? Have you ever studied the question of Judas Iscariot? I have. And by having my doctrine in the right places I am able to rightly divide the Scripture on Judas and allow it to form my beliefs and my doctrine.
I came to the knowledge of the truth.
 
I said “He also betrayed the trust of Jesus and the rest of the disciples by stealing from the money given to support Jesus’s ministry; money that he was in charge of maintaining and dispersing”, which shows a pattern of behavior that ‘it was always about the money’ in Judas’ thinking. That is serving “mammon” above God. That’s why he complained about the woman with the alabaster box.

Doug
And Peter rejected the Lord. The Lord Jesus called Peter, "Satan." Isn't that a betrayal worse than Judas'? Not "son of" but actual Satan. So, what sins did Jesus atone since we're comparing which sin is worse? Peter rejecting Jesus saying, "I know not the man!" or Judas pointing Jesus out with a kiss, in effect, declaring Him as the Lord to the religious leaders who wanted Jesus arrsted.

I suggest you study the question of Judas Iscariot. If you are honest with Scripture, you will see the truth about this man whom Jesus called "Friend." Jesus also name Judas "apostle." Tell me, are there any of Jesus' apostles in hell?
 
Even Jonah. Yes, he recounts his involvement with Nineveh, but he wrote of his experience to the Jewish people
But the Ninevites were told to repent and be spared from being destroyed. Non-Jews were being offered mercy! Being written to Jews only makes the point that Jews are not the only people God cares about! Think!


Doug
 
And Peter rejected the Lord. The Lord Jesus called Peter, "Satan."
Jesus was not calling Peter Satan, he was speaking directly to Satan who had used Peter’s honest, but misguided, attempt to dissuade Jesus from the cross. Jesus recognized the real source of Peter’s objection, and spoke directly to Satan!

Doug
 
But the Ninevites were told to repent and be spared from being destroyed. Non-Jews were being offered mercy! Being written to Jews only makes the point that Jews are not the only people God cares about! Think!


Doug
The Assyrians conquered Israel. And what did God do when He was ready to address it? He destroyed then Assyrians. God did such a number on the Assyrians that today we have to dig in order to ascertain its location. God wiped them out. Their "repentance" was a facade. They were never under the Law, and they all perished without Law. There were no sacrifices for their sin.

From a Hebraic and historical perspective, Jonah’s mission to Nineveh aligns with a specific window in the Neo-Assyrian timeline:
  • The Location: Jonah was from Gath-hepher (Strong’s #1662), a town in the territory of Zebulun.
  • The Assyrian Climate: During the early-to-mid 8th century B.C., the Assyrian Empire (under rulers like Adad-nirari III or Ashur-dan III) experienced periods of internal instability, localized revolts, and even a famous solar eclipse in 763 B.C. (the Bur-Sagale eclipse).
  • The Repentance: In a Hebraic framework, these "signs in the sky" and the political instability are often viewed as the atmospheric "softening" that made the Ninevites receptive to Jonah’s warning of coming judgment.
Several generations later God destroyed that nation for their sins. He sent the Babylonians against them and completely destroyed them. There was no atonement offered to the Assyrians. Nor to the Babylonians. These Gentile nations had no covenant with God. Their "repentance" was a fake. But God knew. And when God was ready He destroyed them.
 
Jesus was not calling Peter Satan, he was speaking directly to Satan who had used Peter’s honest, but misguided, attempt to dissuade Jesus from the cross. Jesus recognized the real source of Peter’s objection, and spoke directly to Satan!

Doug
So, Peter was possessed by Satan? But it doesn't say that. Jesus directed His comments to Peter and called him "Satan." Personal pronoun. He didn't say, "Get thee behind me, Peter!" He said, Satan. Peter was so very much Satan that he denied Jesus three times! You can't "clean" this up.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:23.

32 And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men. Mark 8:32–33.

That's some very powerful stuff. Jesus called Peter, "Satan." Wow!
 
The word "woe" is the Greek word for "grief."
Again, you only cite a portion of the actual definition:

οὐαί, an interjection of grief or of denunciation (Thayer)

Strong’s Greek 3759, οὐαί (transliterated “ouai”), conveys an intense exclamation of grief, dread, or denunciation. While a single Greek interjection, it gathers into itself the prophetic lament of Scripture, the moral outrage of the incarnate Christ, the self-reproach of the apostle, and the final trumpet of eschatological judgment. Across forty-seven New Testament occurrences its tone varies from compassionate sorrow to uncompromising doom, yet always in harmony with the righteousness and mercy of God.


Luke 22:22 was a pronouncement of doom on Judas, which was, from Jesus’s perspective, an expression of grief that it had to be such.


Doug
 
Again, you only cite a portion of the actual definition:

οὐαί, an interjection of grief or of denunciation (Thayer)

Strong’s Greek 3759, οὐαί (transliterated “ouai”), conveys an intense exclamation of grief, dread, or denunciation. While a single Greek interjection, it gathers into itself the prophetic lament of Scripture, the moral outrage of the incarnate Christ, the self-reproach of the apostle, and the final trumpet of eschatological judgment. Across forty-seven New Testament occurrences its tone varies from compassionate sorrow to uncompromising doom, yet always in harmony with the righteousness and mercy of God.


Luke 22:22 was a pronouncement of doom on Judas, which was, from Jesus’s perspective, an expression of grief that it had to be such.


Doug
The word "woe" means "grief."

Greek Word: οὐαί
Transliteration: ouai
Phonetic Pronunciation: oo-ah’ee
Root: a primary exclamation of grief
Part of Speech: interj

22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
Luke 22:22.

"Grief" to that man (Judas) by whom he is betrayed. Jesus was correct. Judas experienced much grief for his act against Jesus. "Denunciation" had nothing to do with what Judas did. He didn't "denounce" Jesus. He pointed Him out by declaring Jesus as the man they wanted. In effect, he said, "this is the man you want. This is the Christ."
Peter denied Jesus. What Peter did was worse than what Judas did. Judas declared Jesus. Peter denied Him. Three times!

I only have one linguist: Strong.
I don't confuse definitions by choosing a linguist (Strong) and when his definition is "weak": or doesn't support what I am saying, to choose another (Thayer) and confuse the subject, which is what you're trying to do. I am solidly behind Strong and have used ONLY HIM for nearly fifty years.

Judas suffered grief for what he did.
 
Didn’t say that at all! Nice try though!

Doug
No, Jesus called him "Satan."

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:22–23.

He didn't say, "Get thee behind me, Peter." So, take the Scripture as written.
 
There is no history that can be found on Judas like the other apostles. I looked. I'll stand corrected if you can find something that is not a hypothetical guess.

John the Baptist was born to make way, herald, and prepare hearts for Jesus and then die, not on his own.

Judas was born to betray Jesus and then die, on his own.
 
There is no history that can be found on Judas like the other apostles. I looked. I'll stand corrected if you can find something that is not a hypothetical guess.

John the Baptist was born to make way, herald, and prepare hearts for Jesus and then die, not on his own.

Judas was born to betray Jesus and then die, on his own.
Here, Jesus promises His disciples each a throne when things are restored (after defeating His enemies and Himself sitting on His throne in Jerusalem.)

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. Matthew 19:27–30.

This passage alone should give everyone pause towards the prevailing teaching that Judas is doomed, went to hell, and is eternally separated from God and His Christ. Another passage which takes place in the garden right before Jesus is arrested Jesus calls Judas "Friend" and I am not one who believes any of the Lord's Friends are eternally lost. I have other considerations but for now I will only say that at Jesus' last Passover, He took the cup and the bread and said, "these are given for you." His body and blood are sacrificed "for you" (meaning the twelve.) And according to Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant between God and the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.) Jeremiah's prophecy describes the God of this covenant on his own and completely unilaterally "forgiving Israel."

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour (member of a tribe living next to 'you'), and every man his brother (member of the same tribe), saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

Faith is not a requirement because when Christ does invade a person's life to save them the Holy Spirit who is faith personified provides the faith to believe. God will make them willing when they are delivered from their bondage to sin and turned to God and His Christ. Salvation (and all its parts) is OF THE LORD. And salvation is OF THE JEWS.
By being called and chosen by God Abraham and his seed are in covenant with God. God will keep His Promises at the appointed time. And, as Saul has said quoting the prophet, "And ALL Israel shall be saved." Nothing shall stop it.
 
Back
Top Bottom