The fallacy of eternity being a timeless state.

[praise_yeshua]

No, wasn't burned or mangled or decayed or in any way become something else. It simply ceased to exist.

Can you recognize that you're referencing "burned" as corruption yet you're planning on being burned yourself?

I can't separate "cease to exist" from "corruption". I don't see how anyone can. It is "just as good" as his body staying in the grave and eventually "ceasing to exist".

What is the necessity of the bodily resurrection to you? Why even raise his body at all?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The body is not the source of sin, it is the tool of sin’s expression. The body is not sinful in itself. It becomes corrupted by sin , which lies within the spiritual nature of man.

The spirit of man is born again, renewed, revived from death. The body’s actions will follow the direction of the spirit.

Doug

I would argue that "born again" is a reference to the human bodily birth. It isn't a return to some "state" that Adam held before some imagined "fall" from "Eternal life" in Protestant circles.

Man's body has gradually devolved since Adam and Eve from the affects of sin. The body is actually contrary to the spirit in many ways.

Just talking.....

 

[Jim]

Can you recognize that you're referencing "burned" as corruption yet you're planning on being burned yourself?

Of course. What do you think it means when in the Bible it says we are returned to dust.

I can't separate "cease to exist" from "corruption". I don't see how anyone can. It is "just as good" as his body staying in the grave and eventually "ceasing to exist".

Corruption is a change in the constitution, a change from one set of substances to another set of substances.

What is the necessity of the bodily resurrection to you? Why even raise his body at all?

He was raised bodily from being physically dead to being physically alive. Being raised was evidence of the power of God to do what He has promised. We are not told that we will be raised to again be a body that is physically alive. Rather we are told that we will be raised to a spiritual body.

 

[Jim]

I would argue that "born again" is a reference to the human bodily birth. It isn't a return to some "state" that Adam held before some imagined "fall" from "Eternal life" in Protestant circles.

Man's body has gradually devolved since Adam and Eve from the affects of sin. The body is actually contrary to the spirit in many ways.

Just talking.....

I don't believe any of that. Born again is the bringing back of the spiritually dead in trespasses and sins to be alive again.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Of course. What do you think it means when in the Bible it says we are returned to dust.

Then just say that Christ saw corruption.

Corruption is a change in the constitution, a change from one set of substances to another set of substances.

He was raised bodily from being physically dead to being physically alive. Being raised was evidence of the power of God to do what He has promised. We are not told that we will be raised to again be a body that is physically alive. Rather we are told that we will be raised to a spiritual body.

So it didn't just "cease to exist", it was transformed?

Either way, you're requiring "corruption". Why resist using the word. That is what you're describing.

You remind me of Seth from the old forums. Did you have multiple identities there that included Seth?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't believe any of that. Born again is the bringing back of the spiritually dead in trespasses and sins to be alive again.

What is this "bringing back" description. Be exacting with me.

What exactly was "alive" to "bring back"?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Of course. What do you think it means when in the Bible it says we are returned to dust.

Corruption is a change in the constitution, a change from one set of substances to another set of substances.

He was raised bodily from being physically dead to being physically alive. Being raised was evidence of the power of God to do what He has promised. We are not told that we will be raised to again be a body that is physically alive. Rather we are told that we will be raised to a spiritual body.

BTW. What is coming out of the "grave" when we are resurrected?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The body is not the source of sin, it is the tool of sin’s expression. The body is not sinful in itself. It becomes corrupted by sin , which lies within the spiritual nature of man.

The spirit of man is born again, renewed, revived from death. The body’s actions will follow the direction of the spirit.

Doug

Wanted to elaborate a little more.....

What if I said,

When God took the "dust of the earth" and formed man. Within that dust.... there could have been genetic material?

We know God didn't need the dust of the earth to create man. It wasn't necessary. Yet, God did just that. I have long pondered this.

 

[Jim]

BTW. What is coming out of the "grave" when we are resurrected?

I am not going to be in any grave.

 

[Jim]

What is this "bringing back" description. Be exacting with me.

What exactly was "alive" to "bring back"?

The spirit.

Then just say that Christ saw corruption.

He didn't.

So it didn't just "cease to exist", it was transformed?

Either way, you're requiring "corruption". Why resist using the word. That is what you're describing.

You remind me of Seth from the old forums. Did you have multiple identities there that included Seth?

And you seem to be much too confused about any of this. You are off in some other world.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am not going to be in any grave.

So you're going to treat your body as waste that comes out into the "draught"?

You shouldn't hate your body. You should cherish it. Remember those words? Is that what you felt about the body of your wife?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The spirit.

He didn't.

And you seem to be much too confused about any of this. You are off in some other world.

I do think you just might be Seth. A "more reserved" version to some degree.

You have to admit that you're describing "corruption" will insisting you're not. Please describe the difference?

Saying the body of Jesus Christ just "disappeared"....... isn't "cutting it"......

Adam was never spiritually alive or "born from above" until after he left the garden. Hence "second time"......

So this "bring back" isn't working for you. It doesn't meet the facts of the circumstances.

 

[Jim]

So you're going to treat your body as waste that comes out into the "draught"?

You shouldn't hate your body. You should cherish it. Remember those words? Is that what you felt about the body of your wife?

The body of the person who dies is not much different than the body of any animal that dies. It is just a mass of chemicals.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The body of the person who dies is not much different than the body of any animal that dies. It is just a mass of chemicals.

So we are not "wonderously made"?

How do you "feel" without a body? How do you express emotion without the body?

 

[TibiasDad]

I would argue that "born again" is a reference to the human bodily birth.

Jesus told Nicodemus, who was already born physically, that he needed to be born again. Nicodemus thought, as you do, that this meant being reborn physically, but Jesus corrected that notion and said rebirth was a spiritual phenomenon. It has nothing to do with being physically born ! Spirit is born of the Spirit.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Wanted to elaborate a little more.....

What if I said,

When God took the "dust of the earth" and formed man. Within that dust.... there could have been genetic material?

We know God didn't need the dust of the earth to create man. It wasn't necessary. Yet, God did just that. I have long pondered this.

God transformed the dust into flesh (after all, we do not blow away in the wind, or become mud in the shower) but life was not present until God breathed into him. That is our DNA in my humble opinion.


Doug

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus told Nicodemus, who was already born physically, that he needed to be born again. Nicodemus thought, as you do, that this meant being reborn physically, but Jesus corrected that notion and said rebirth was a spiritual phenomenon. It has nothing to do with being physically born ! Spirit is born of the Spirit.

Doug

You misunderstand why I said what I said. (My fault)

So if Jesus referenced being "born", then there is a necessity of understanding the context of "being born".

Nicodemus wasn't very far away from understanding what Jesus said.

So... I'll bite....

What does being "born of the Spirit" mean other than being "born"?

What frame of reference do you have whereby to discern what it means to be "born"?

 

[praise_yeshua]

God transformed the dust into flesh (after all, we do not blow away in the wind, or become mud in the shower) but life was not present until God breathed into him. That is our DNA in my humble opinion.


Doug

Okay. Got it.

I don't think that explains the necessity of the dust. Preexisting matter.