The Gospel Of Salvation

[MTMattie]

@MTMattie



And worship your freewill, will worship

What would be the purpose of that?

You seem to be at a crossroads with needing to make a choice. Or are you going to pitch a tent right there until someone comes along to show you the way so you do not make a mistake?

Ill just remind you that there have been a lot of serpents since the one got to Eve.

You remind me of the man on the roof.....

It had been raining for days and days, and a great flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you… I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?"

God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

God gave you a mind with which to think, understand and discern. And the ability to help himself so he might help others.

You are so worried about whether I or others may believe about free will, (see reply 973 above )which can be biblically demonstrated, why don't you set about to educate those who don't have a clue.

 

[brightfame52]

Okay, then what scripture explains how we're born into this world as a sheep or a goat?

Please find someone else for that foolishness', Im not the one

 

[TomL]

Christ had Sheep that had not even heard His voice yet, so they were in unbelief Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They had not yet heard His voice, and Faith cometh by hearing, so they were in unbelief. Some of Christs Sheep had not even been born yet into the world, and they werent going to be born believers, but unbelievers, yet they were Christ sheep He came to save

What were you not able to understand?

The text does not state they are unbelievers

You are reading that into the text

 

[brightfame52]

@MTMattie

What would be the purpose of that?

Look in the mirror and ask yourself

 

[brightfame52]

What were you not able to understand?

The text does not state they are unbelievers

You are reading that into the text

Christ had Sheep that had not even heard His voice yet, so they were in unbelief Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They had not yet heard His voice, and Faith cometh by hearing, so they were in unbelief. Some of Christs Sheep had not even been born yet into the world, and they werent going to be born believers, but unbelievers, yet they were Christ sheep He came to save

 

[MTMattie]

Christ had Sheep that had not even heard His voice yet, so they were in unbelief Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They had not yet heard His voice, and Faith cometh by hearing, so they were in unbelief. Some of Christs Sheep had not even been born yet into the world, and they werent going to be born believers, but unbelievers, yet they were Christ sheep He came to save

If they were predestined , why did they need to hear his voice?

 

[MTMattie]

@MTMattie



Look in the mirror and ask yourself

Here is a little cheat sheet for you.

Faith is a gift from God	Ephesians 2:8, Romans 12:3
Faith is not a work	Romans 3:27, Romans 4
Faith is not earned	Ephesians 2:8-9, Ephesians 2:5, 16
Faith is given through the message about Jesus	Romans 10:17
Faith is given by God to those who ask for it	Luke 11:9-12, Luke 17:5, Mark 9:24
Faith is given by God to those who don't ask for it	John 6:44, John 6:65
Faith is given by God to those who listen to the word of Christ	Romans 10:17
Faith is given by God to those who read about Jesus in the Bible	Romans 10:17
Faith is given by God through preachers of the gospel	Acts 16:14

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Characteristics​

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Values​

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[TomL]

Christ had Sheep that had not even heard His voice yet, so they were in unbelief Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They had not yet heard His voice, and Faith cometh by hearing, so they were in unbelief. Some of Christs Sheep had not even been born yet into the world, and they werent going to be born believers, but unbelievers, yet they were Christ sheep He came to save

Once again

What were you not able to understand?

The text does not state they are unbelievers

You are reading that into the text

 

[brightfame52]

If they were predestined , why did they need to hear his voice?

Why not hear His voice ? Duh

 

[Selah]

Not to the extent that it would stop my firm belief in free will and our ability to exercise our faith in Jesus and believe without question we must rely on the death of Jesus as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

And that it is the shed blood of Jesus that t cleanses us. And the understanding we each must fully grasp of the weight of Jesus’ sacrifice and the immense privilege we have to be washed by the blood of the Lamb?

As to predestination itself and does it play a part in our lives? The quick answer would be no, I do not subscribe to the Calvin/predestination game plan...

But I do believe our Heavenly Father did have a plan that was predestined and certain people were chosen for whatever they were chosen for.
Quick examples would be

Jeramiah 1:5...

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Or the chosen disciples, especially Judas.

Or Mary.

But was I? Certainly not.I had no calling whatsoever in my nearly 80 years of life, other then to read, listen and learn then choose where my faith would be.

Thanks, Mattie.

You’re right. God knew Jeremiah very well before He placed him in his mother's womb.

God knew and predestined you too, sis. See?

Romans 8:28-30 (NKJV) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to [His] purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[dwight92070]

Okay, then what scripture explains how we're born into this world as a sheep or a goat?

Please find someone else for that foolishness', Im not the one

Could it be that there is no such scripture? Since when is it foolish to seek scripture that displays and confirms what you believe?

 

[TomL]

Christ had Sheep that had not even heard His voice yet, so they were in unbelief Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They had not yet heard His voice, and Faith cometh by hearing, so they were in unbelief. Some of Christs Sheep had not even been born yet into the world, and they werent going to be born believers, but unbelievers, yet they were Christ sheep He came to save

Sorry your interpretation is contrary to the fact

'
John 10:1–5 (LEB) — 1 “Truly, truly I say to you, the one who does not enter through the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up at some other place—that one is a thief and a robber. 2 But the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 For this one the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 Whenever he sends out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 And they will never follow a stranger, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”
those you call sheep do not know his voice and they follow a stranger

John 10:27 (LEB) — 27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Further the bible shows they are not his

Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.
So your interpretation contradicts multible passages of scripture.

 

[MTMattie]

Why not hear His voice ? Duh

I really and truly do not think you know why you believe what you believe.

 

[MTMattie]

Thanks, Mattie.

You’re right. God knew Jeremiah very well before He placed him in his mother's womb.

God knew and predestined you too, sis. See?

Romans 8:28-30 (NKJV) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to [His] purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

But I still have free will.

 

[Selah]

But I still have free will.

Yes, of course. Everyone has to choose to believe in Jesus to become a child of God.

 

[civic]

@dwight92070


False.

exactly your view of sheep is false

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry your interpretation is contrary to the fact

'
John 10:1–5 (LEB) — 1 “Truly, truly I say to you, the one who does not enter through the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up at some other place—that one is a thief and a robber. 2 But the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 For this one the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 Whenever he sends out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 And they will never follow a stranger, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”
those you call sheep do not know his voice and they follow a stranger

John 10:27 (LEB) — 27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Further the bible shows they are not his

Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.
So your interpretation contradicts multible passages of scripture.

Christ had Sheep that had not even heard His voice yet, so they were in unbelief Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They had not yet heard His voice, and Faith cometh by hearing, so they were in unbelief. Some of Christs Sheep had not even been born yet into the world, and they werent going to be born believers, but unbelievers, yet they were Christ sheep He came to save

 

[brightfame52]

I really and truly do not think you know why you believe what you believe.

Well why not ? The question is senseless to me

 

[brightfame52]

exactly your view of sheep is false

That junk was false

 

[MTMattie]

Christ had Sheep that had not even heard His voice yet, so they were in unbelief Jn 10:16

NO. Just because they had not heard his voice does not mean they did not believe.

Just like free will believers believe, yet we have not heard His actual voice yet. You know the one... the come up hither one..... for we all have heard about Him and we all have decided for Him

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They had not yet heard His voice, and Faith cometh by hearing, so they were in unbelief. Some of Christs Sheep had not even been born yet into the world, and they werent going to be born believers, but unbelievers, yet they were Christ sheep He came to save