The Gospel Of Salvation

[MTMattie]

He died exclusively for His Sheep and saved them by His Death for them. Do you teach that His Death for His Sheep actually saved them from sin and gave them eternal life ?

I POSTED THIS ABOVE....tO SAVE YOU FROM LOOKING .... HERE!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So is it your contention that when God gave His only Son it was a gift. TO WHOM? OR are you saying it was everlasting life that was God's gift?
Repeat... to whom.

Oh.. I forgot.... you say the sheep. BUT SHEEP IS NOT WRITTEN IN THAT VERSE THEREFORE YOU ARE ADDING TO THE WORD OF TRUTH.... OH GUILTY ONE.
WHICH, THE VERSE ACTUALLY SAYS WHOSOEVER BELIEVES... AND THAT CAN INCLUDE NON SHEEP AS WELL.

YOU CANNOT EVEN REFERENCE SCRIPTURES THAT DO NOT CONTRADICT YOU. SHAME,SHAME,SHAME

God said that whoever believes on the son shall have everlasting life.

ARE YOU NOW GOING TO ARGUE THEY ARE DIFFERENT BECAUSE ONE SAYS EVERLASTING AND THE OTHER ETERNAL?????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Selah]

@civic

Who do the sheep represent?

 

[Selah]

Hear ye, hear ye…

The word “sheep” does not have to be mentioned in every passage of scripture for a particular passage to apply to the “sheep.”

 

[MTMattie]

Hear ye, hear ye…

The word “sheep” does not have to be mentioned in every passage of scripture for a particular passage to apply to the “sheep.”

Great call.

You asked @civic

Who do the sheep represent?

I think everyone.

Israel for sure, but remember what Jesus in Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” So their are the "chosen ones" and those who had to be gathered back of the ones who would follow

Yet when we get to John 10:16 He says....“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. These are not the lost house of Israel ones.

So I think this covers the Gentiles and possibly others?

Seems like Jesus went about things in a very methodical way.

 

[Complete]

Hello @Selah,

1) Who do the sheep represent (ref: #882) ?

'But He answered and said,
I am not sent
but unto the lost sheep
of the house of Israel.'
(Mat. 15:24)

'He was in the world,
and the world was made by Him,
and the world knew Him not.
He came unto His own,
and His own received Him not.
But as many as received Him,
to them gave He power
to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His name:'
(John 1:10-12)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

Hello @Selah,

2) Who are the flock? (ref. #880)

'Then saith Jesus unto them,
All ye shall be offended because of Me this night:
for it is written, I will smite the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.'
(Mat. 26:31)

'Fear not, little flock;
for it is your Father's good pleasure
to give you the kingdom.'
(Luke 12:32)

* The flock is referring to Israel, Who were Christ's 'Own': to Whom He came:-

'Hath not the scripture said,
That Christ cometh of the seed of David,
and out of the town of Bethlehem,
where David was?
(Joh 7:42)

For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels;
but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved Him
to be made like unto His brethren,
that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest
in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.'
(Heb 2:16-17)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brightfame52]

It matters you are dodging and not dealing with the passage

This is a constant with you, and it shows your theology is busted

Doesn't matter what chapter, or any other chapter in John or book in the entire scripture, when talking about salvation matters, its about the Sheep.

Jesus has stated clearly who He has died for and thats foundational, everything else can be built upon that foundation, His sayings. Remember Matt 7:24

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Jn 10:11,15 are His sayings aren't they ? Im building on a ROCK

 

[civic]

So what are some other names for sheep in the Bible?

Sheep

 

[civic]

@civic

Who do the sheep represent?

Remember that God was the Shepherd of Israel His sheep yet most were not saved and died in unbelief.

 

[MTMattie]

Remember that God was the Shepherd of Israel His sheep yet most were not saved and died in unbelief.

Unfortunately they still are.

 

[Complete]

I think everyone.

Israel for sure, but remember what Jesus in Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” So their are the "chosen ones" and those who had to be gathered back of the ones who would follow

Yet when we get to John 10:16 He says....“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. These are not the lost house of Israel ones.

So I think this covers the Gentiles and possibly others?

Seems like Jesus went about things in a very methodical way.

I am the good shepherd,
and know My sheep, and am known of Mine.
As the Father knoweth Me,
even so know I the Father:
and I lay down My life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have,
which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring,
and they shall hear My voice;
and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Therefore doth my Father love Me,
because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have power to lay it down,
and I have power to take it again.
This commandment have I received of My Father.'
(Joh 10:14-18)

Hello @MTMattie,

Forgive me for quoting more than the verse you quoted, but it's context is so lovely, isn't it?

The '... other Sheep I have', in verse 16, When these words were spoken by the Lord, the 'other sheep', to which He referred were not yet in existence, except in the purpose of God. The word, Gr.'allos' = 'other', means, 'another of the same kind' (denoting numerical distinction).The second of two where there may be more. (e.g., Matt. 10:23; 25:16,17,20; 27:42; 61; 28:1; John 18:15-16; 20:2-4 & Rev. 17:10) .

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

Unfortunately they still are.

In OT times

Jeremiah 50:6
My people are lost sheep; their shepherds have led them astray, causing them to roam the mountains. They have wandered from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting place.

Ezekiel 34:5-6
They were scattered for lack of a shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild beasts. / My flock went astray on all the mountains and every high hill. They were scattered over the face of all the earth, with no one to search for them or seek them out.’

And in Jesus day

Matthew 10:6
but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

And in the days of the Apostles

Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. But since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles

Romans 11:1-2
I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. / God did not reject His people, whom He foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says about Elijah, how he appealed to God against Israel:

Romans 11:25-26
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. / And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

 

[civic]

The problem is the calvinist equates sheep with saved and elect with saved. The Bible says otherwise as a whole. One must discern from the context the meaning of sheep and who and what they are from the context. One cannot exegete properly when they isolate of verse from the biblical narrative.

 

[TedT]

The problem is the calvinist equates sheep with saved and elect with saved. The Bible says otherwise as a whole. One must discern from the context the meaning of sheep and who and what they are from the context. One cannot exegete properly when they isolate of verse from the biblical narrative.

...and here I am thinking that this is one thing they got right,

 

[brightfame52]

You do realize that if from Genesis 1 thru Revelation if every single statement was made had to have additional words added by the authors such as this is the offer , or swap it to read I am making you the offer yada yada... that it is doubtful the first scribing of the Holy Scriptures would have been done before Jimmy had his the 54 invitations issued to join the team of King James Bible translators, but only 47 of the men appointed for this work are known to have engaged in it.... started to Work on it......

There are things that are said, and were said that would have been indigenous to the time and the location or the work being done. They would have had there specific ways to talk . I am not even suggesting the differences between Hebrew and koine Greek or Aramaic ( common for the day)
but just everyday conversations likely would have had an expected common theme of understanding to them

Example: You say:

Bible verse.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So is it your contention that when God gave His only Son it was a gift. TO WHOM? OR are you saying it was everlasting life that was God's gift?
Repeat... to whom.

Oh.. I forgot.... you say the sheep. BUT SHEEP IS NOT WRITTEN IN THAT VERSE THEREFORE YOU ARE ADDING TO THE WORD OF TRUTH.... OH GUILTY ONE.
WHICH, THE VERSE ACTUALLY SAYS WHOSOEVER BELIEVES... AND THAT CAN INCLUDE NON SHEEP AS WELL.

BTW See me? I am following my Savior. View attachment 1666

Im saying eternal life, salvation, Jesus Christ has never, ever been offered to anyone, that's a false teaching, inspired by you know who !

 

[civic]

...and here I am thinking that this is one thing they got right,

As a former calvinist I can go on record saying they got it wrong and it gives them a false hope when you examine God as the Shepherd and Israel as His sheep and chosen/elect people in the Old and New Testaments.

 

[brightfame52]

I POSTED THIS ABOVE....tO SAVE YOU FROM LOOKING .... HERE!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So is it your contention that when God gave His only Son it was a gift. TO WHOM? OR are you saying it was everlasting life that was God's gift?
Repeat... to whom.

Oh.. I forgot.... you say the sheep. BUT SHEEP IS NOT WRITTEN IN THAT VERSE THEREFORE YOU ARE ADDING TO THE WORD OF TRUTH.... OH GUILTY ONE.
WHICH, THE VERSE ACTUALLY SAYS WHOSOEVER BELIEVES... AND THAT CAN INCLUDE NON SHEEP AS WELL.

YOU CANNOT EVEN REFERENCE SCRIPTURES THAT DO NOT CONTRADICT YOU. SHAME,SHAME,SHAME

God said that whoever believes on the son shall have everlasting life.

ARE YOU NOW GOING TO ARGUE THEY ARE DIFFERENT BECAUSE ONE SAYS EVERLASTING AND THE OTHER ETERNAL????????????????????????????????????????? View attachment 1667

Friend you just going in circles and not paying a bit of attention to what I have stated already.

 

[civic]

Friend you just going in circles and not paying a bit of attention to what I have stated already.

nope you have it wrong as the gospel is for everyone, all people everywhere. Jesus atonement is for all the world without exception- see 1 John 2:2

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

@civic

nope you have it wrong as the gospel is for everyone,

Not as a word of salvation, to some its foolishness them that perish or are lost 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It, the Gospel, comes to two different sets of people, the lost and the saved, and God has His purpose for each set

 

[Complete]

'And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice;
and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.'
(Joh 10:16)

Hello again, @MTMattie, & @Selah,

Before considering the verse above, and asking the question concerning whether the 'sheep' of Scripture refer only to Israel or ever to the church, it is necessary to recognise the fact that in verse 16 (above) the word 'fold' is used twice, but the Greek original used two different Greek words.

* Gr. 'Aule' , is correctly rendered 'fold' but 'poimne' should be translated 'flock'. ' Poimne' is cognate with 'poimen' 'shepherd', but 'aule' refers rather to the enclosure, the 'fold', and if used of 'men' instead of 'sheep' is translated in this same gospel 'palace' (18:15), while the verbal for 'aulizomai' is translated 'to lodge' (Matt. 21:17) or 'to abide' (Luke 21:37).

* 'Other sheep'. The fact that the Lord could refer to 'other sheep' presupposes the existence and the recognition of some who already answered to that name. Psalm 95:7 says, 'We are the people of His pasture, and the sheep of His hand'

* When Christ sent out His disciples, to preach the gospel of the Kingdom, He differentiated between Israel and the Gentiles saying: 'God not unto the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel'
(Matt.10:5-6).

* Or, again, when answering the prayer of the Syro-Phenician woman, the Lord Jesus said, 'I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.' (Matt. 15:14).

* Peter was commissioned to feed the Lord's sheep, and he addresses his epistles to the dispersed of Israel, not to the Gentile churches.

* While this would have been commonly accepted doctrine among the Lord's hearers, He indicates that there were others who while certainly not of 'this FOLD' were destined to make up 'one FLOCK'. As these 'other sheep' were not of the fold of Israel and as this revelation is found in that gospel which has the world as its sphere, the period of Israel's rejection (i.e., the Acts) as its period, and was written for non-Jewish readers, these other sheep must be made up of Gentile believers.

* Members of the Church of the Mystery (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus & Philemon) are neither called sheep, nor will they ever be brought into a union with the 'fold' of Israel to form one 'flock'. The ministry of John's Gospel is, however, at work today in a wider circle than that covered by the dispensation of the mystery, and many a Gentile believer, who has neither attained to the standing of 'Romans', nor received the calling of 'Ephesians', will find himself one of a fold which Israel would not recognize, even as there are others from among the Gentiles who will be gathered out of the highways and byways, to sit down as guests at the marriage supper of the Lamb, though this honour was originally extended to Israel only (Mat. 22:1:1-4).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref: 'Life Through His Name' by Charles H. Welch.