brightfame52
Well-known member
Easy, thats the elect
The Gospel Of Salvation
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Yes it is easy for Calvinists to be deceived by their false doctrine.
Your argument commits the negative inference fallacy which states that specificity in a statement does not entail exclusion of those not among the specified group. Bare positive statements that Christ died for his “sheep,” “the church,” or “his people” cannot be legitimately interpreted to mean he did not die for others not in these categories.
For example, if I say, “I love my wife,” that does not necessarily entail that I love only my wife and therefore do not love my son, daughter, or someone else. To assert such is to make a logical error.
This is the mistake made by all who attempt to affirm limited atonement from these texts:
Matthew 1:21: Christ came to save his people.
John 10:15: Christ lays his life down for his sheep.
Your argument commits the negative inference fallacy which states that specificity in a statement does not entail exclusion of those not among the specified group. Bare positive statements that Christ died for his “sheep,” “the church,” or “his people” cannot be legitimately interpreted to mean he did not die for others not in these categories.
For example, if I say, “I love my wife,” that does not necessarily entail that I love only my wife and therefore do not love my son, daughter, or someone else. To assert such is to make a logical error.
This is the mistake made by all who attempt to affirm limited atonement from these texts:
Matthew 1:21: Christ came to save his people.
John 10:15: Christ lays his life down for his sheep.
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Anyone who has been enlightened by God knows that Christ only died for the elect, no matter how much they go get scriptures saying all or world or whole world, its still limited to the elect, jew and gentile. And the enlightened knows that everyone Christ died for are saved by His death. So He died only for the saved.Rev 21 24
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Yes,
Your argument is invalid. The conclusion does not follow, and the syllogism is logically fallacious.
Mankind is saved by their faith in what Jesus did on the cross.
Ephesians 2:8-9 is often cited as the clearest articulation of salvation by grace through faith: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” This passage underscores that salvation is entirely a gift from God, not a result of human effort, to prevent any boasting of personal merit. As in "one of the elect".
Romans 3:23-24 expands on this, stating, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” Here, Paul emphasizes that all humans are sinners and that justification comes freely by God’s grace. Noe because you think your "one of the elect".
Again, the negative inference fallacy comes into play in you posts. Anyone who refuses what Jesus did are incapable of receiving the saving benefits of his death. Even if Jesus’s statements indicates that his critics are not now nor ever will be among his sheep, that does not affirm or entail limited atonement.
Your argument is invalid. The conclusion does not follow, and the syllogism is logically fallacious.
Mankind is saved by their faith in what Jesus did on the cross.
Ephesians 2:8-9 is often cited as the clearest articulation of salvation by grace through faith: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” This passage underscores that salvation is entirely a gift from God, not a result of human effort, to prevent any boasting of personal merit. As in "one of the elect".
Romans 3:23-24 expands on this, stating, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” Here, Paul emphasizes that all humans are sinners and that justification comes freely by God’s grace. Noe because you think your "one of the elect".
brightfame52
Well-known member
Anyone who has been enlightened by God knows that Christ only died for the elect, no matter how much they go get scriptures saying all or world or whole world, its still limited to the elect, jew and gentile. And the enlightened knows that everyone Christ died for are saved by His death. So He died only for the saved.Rev 21 24
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
brightfame52
Well-known member
101G
Well-known member
No matter how you parse it, this is invalid logic, and no sound argument can be grounded in an invalid logical argument. It does not matter what interpretation of the sheep one takes in John 10; the argument is invalid.
Limitarians wrongly conclude from John 10 that Christ died only for those given to him. Jesus’s statements in John 10 in no way prove exclusivity it does that prove he died only for them.
Romans 5:7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!…
dwight92070
Well-known member
Jesus is the true Elect and the true Chosen - it's the same Greek word for both - eklego - so all those who have been saved by grace through faith in Jesus are automatically His elect and His chosen, since we are the body of Christ, and He is our Head.
Luke 9:35 "Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, 'This is My Son, My Chosen One, listen to Him!"
Just like 1 John 5:11-12 "And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."
If we have Jesus, i.e. if we're saved, then we automatically have eternal life, since that life is in Him.
Also if we have the Son, we also become part of the chosen or the elect.
To suggest that there is an elite group of saved people that, even if we wanted to, we couldn't join, is to make God a monster, which He is not.
Whosoever will, may come.
Richard
Active member
To attempt to sustain the case for limited atonement in this way is merely a circular argument.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The world in John 3:16 is the church of Ephesians 5:25
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah John 10 shows exclusively who Christ died for and Romans 5:7-10 that's the sheep of John 10 in fact the whole chapter of Romans 5 is about the elect
brightfame52
Well-known member
Jesus and his church are the true elect and that's exclusively who he died for, Jesus exclusively died for all who are saved he died for no one who dies in their sins in unbelief
brightfame52
Well-known member
If you don't accept limited atonement you don't accept the gospel of God's grace
Huh? If you don't accept unlimited atonement then you don't accept God's unlimited love. That's not unlimited salvation because only those who believe are saved.
brightfame52
Well-known member
If you don't accept limited atonement you don't accept the gospel of God's grace, as well as Gods Sovereign Discriminate Love Rom 9:13
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Gods Love is restricted to the Elect
Seems like you can make the Bible say anything you want it to mean. Grab a passage, don’t look at context, and interpret it how you want to. Cha-ching!
The truth is Christ died for the world to bring God's grace to all people.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Im showing you what the scripture means, but you not hearing it. The world of Jn 3:16 which God so loved, is the Church Christ loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
civic
Well-known member
His people in the context are the Jews, the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 15:24- He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
So by your own verse you quoted out of context I might add you cannot be saved.
next fallacy
brightfame52
Well-known member
No they are not the jews,its His church, the body of Christ, which contains some jews as well as other ethnicities. Salvation from sin isnt conditioned on or promised to ethnicity
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