The faith of Jesus Christ versus the faith of man

[FreeInChrist]

What do you mean?

Is it not you who claim

The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel?​

Have you forgotten that Jesus said .....Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”?

Can you in all good conscience say any of the following would have been born again. OR THAT JESUS DIED FOR THEM?

1. Atheiest . Madalyn Murray O'Hair

2. Adolph Hitler

3. Friedrich Nietzsche. Who was a German philosopher who taught "God is Dead.

4. Sigmund Freud Who viewed religion as an illusion and a form of psychological defense against human fears.

5. Karl Marx Who Criticized religion as the "opium of the people," promoting atheism and materialism.

Don't forget

These are the worst religious leaders of all time! For this list, we'll be looking at people who rose to power through religion, then used that power to cause widespread harm. Our countdown includes Jeffrey Lundgren, Jim Jones, David Koresh, and more.

• Fred Phelps
• Jeffrey Lundgren
• David Koresh
• Theodore McCarrick
• Dov Lior
• Asahara Shoko
• Warren Jeffs
• Jim Jones
• Joseph Kony
• Osama bin Laden

So no.... He did not die for all. And these were not drawn, for if they were they said no.= free will

 

[Jim]

so why do some people reading John 1 believe and receive Jesus as God while others deny and reject Jesus is God ?

thanks

Oh my, that is a question which could require a good long answer. But briefly, it depends upon each person individually. For some lucky folks like me, we were raised in a family with a long background of believers. So then, when I read John 1, it really only confirmed what I had already been taught and learned. For others, it might take considerable study and teaching to finally accept John 1. For others, they might come to John 1 with a preconceived view of things not in accord with the truth of God and simply reject it. For others, they may not even bother to come to John 1 at all, simply rejecting God's truth out of hand,

We could spend hours discussing the why and how of one coming to a belief or a disbelief in God. Personally, I think that we come to a belief, a faith, in God very much like we come to a belief in most everything in life. Some things like gravity are easy. We experience it virtually every minute of our lives, so when we read or study the details of gravity it doesn't require much effort at all to believe in what we are being taught. On the other hand, with something like Einstein's relativity which we cannot experience directly, it may take a good deal of effort to really accept the truth of it and believe in it. Some simply reject it. For some, they haven't the scientific background to really grasp the truth of it. Some simply don't care, one way or the other, enough to even bother to think about it. In any event, it is not something that God imparts to us directly.

 

[Victoria]

I agree with much of what you posted there, except your apparent interpretation of 1 Corinthians 2:11-14. That entire chapter is a statement of and a defense of Paul's and the other apostles' and prophets' divine inspiration. It establishes the difference between the divinely inspired servant of God and the ordinary human being. It is not stating a difference between the lost and the saved.

Agreed in part, Jim. Would you then say the chapter doesn't also highlight the importance of spiritual understanding available to all Christians through the Holy Spirit? How else could we compare spiritual things w/ spiritual when it comes to doctrine?

Far too many think that chapter speaks to some special meaning, insight, and message from God himself to the born again Christian. It is not. Such messages simply do not happen. Other than to the apostles and prophets of God, no such divinely inspired messages are given. In those verses, the "spiritual person" is the apostle or the prophet for God; it is not the ordinary child of God. The "natural person" is the ordinary human being, unsaved or saved.

I wholeheartedly agree w/ you here as well. Gnosticism has no place in the church.

In verse 16 where it says, "But we have the mind of Christ" is only speaking of the apostles and prophets. If that were true of the born again child of God, there would be no divisions or disputes at all. The mind of Christ is not divided.

It also emphasizes the importance of aligning our thoughts, & attitudes w/ those of Christ Jesus.

What Paul says here for example...

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove
what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:2

And in Ephesians 4:17-32, where Paul lays out the Christian's walk. How else could Christians model Christ to others if our thoughts, & attitudes aren't aligned w/ His?

 

[Victoria]

No contradiction at all — it’s exactly like a perfect wedding ring and a “Yes, I do.”

The ring is 100 % perfect, 100 % valuable, and 100 % sufficient to make someone married.

But the ring only makes you married when the bride puts it on and says “I do” — that “yes” doesn’t add anything to the ring’s value; it simply receives it.

Same with the gospel:

Christ’s death and resurrection are 100 % perfect, 100 % finished, 100 % sufficient to save every sinner.

Faith is not an extra payment — it is the empty hand that says “Yes, that finished work is now mine.”

So I can honestly say both at the same time, just like Scripture does:

The death and resurrection of Jesus alone save ..... Romans 5:9–10; 1 Cor 15:3–4

We are saved through faith ...... Ephesians 2:8; Romans 5:1

There is no contradiction, because faith is not a work that contributes — it is the God-given instrument that receives the salvation Christ alone accomplished.

Christ’s death and resurrection alone save .... and the moment faith receives that finished work, perfect salvation, it becomes yours personally. Faith adds nothing to the price; it simply takes the free gift.

That metaphor was beautifully put, Free. Someone please pass the tissues

 

[Jim]

Agreed in part, Jim. Would you then say the chapter doesn't also highlight the importance of spiritual understanding available to all Christians through the Holy Spirit? How else could we compare spiritual things w/ spiritual when it comes to doctrine?

That depends on what you mean by "spiritual understanding available through the Holy Spirit". If you mean that the Holy Spirit provides understanding directly to all Christians then I do not agree. What we have from the Holy Spirit is God's written word. Clearly God has decided that everything that you need to have available to you is contained within that written word. If that isn't true, then it would seem that the Holy Spirit by God's own direction has not done the job need

It also emphasizes the importance of aligning our thoughts, & attitudes w/ those of Christ Jesus.

Yes and the thoughts and attitudes of Christ Jesus then we need to align with are those presented in God's written word. Again, if what is in God's written word is not sufficient for us to do that, then that is on God not us. But of course, it is sufficient.

My response to anyone who comes to me with any sort of a "God told me" this or that is always "God told me to ignore you".

 

[Jim]

What exactly is that "stone of stumbling"? What is a "rock of offense", and why a rock? A rock is hard, it is weighty.
The answer is found in the event that occurred in the book of Numbers.
In the Old Testament the "serpent" or "snake" represented two things that on the face contradict each other.

6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Numbers 21:6–9.
The serpent/snake was the very animal that deceived the woman and represents that as well as "cunning", "evil", and "sin." In their minds it has a negative connotation, even that of being "adversary."
In the Book of Numbers, the image of the serpent takes on a unique and seemingly opposite meaning: healing and deliverance and prefigures Christ. But it was after the resurrection that is represents Christ. The serpent in the OT represents the poison of sin and the power of the Adversary (Genesis 3), but the brass serpent on the pole represents the divine provision for healing and salvation from that very poison.

At Pentecost and beyond that when Jews were becoming "born-again" by the thousands daily (Acts 2:47), and the story of the death of Jesus the Christ/Messiah, Lord, and King made its rounds these Jewish Christians returned to their homes and synagogues with an outline of Peter's sermon, testimony of Jesus the Christ, and their experience with the Holy Spirit of Promise, the New Covenant prophesied by one of their prophets, Jeremiah, was on everyone's minds. It was exciting, and this "new thing" God was doing 'in the earth' took center stage in conversations among the people. But soon, God's Divine provision for healing and salvation came with a pre-installed difficulty that the Jews could not all wrap their minds around. How can a thing cursed of God - the serpent of Genesis - also be intertwined with a message of hope and deliverance and salvation? The Law states that anyone that hung on a tree was cursed. How can a person (Jesus) who hung on a tree (cross of wood) and cursed of God also be their King? It was offensive. It was very difficult to reconcile in their Jewish minds. In the beginning these "Christians", these followers of Jesus the supposed Way (to the God of Abraham) was being witnessed among the Jews and the more traditional Jews "balked" at the thought that their Messiah, Lord, and King was also an object of cursing and judgment form God. As what happened to Saul, the beginning saw first Jews that blasphemed the thought which led to persecution and then injury (killing).

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Timothy 1:12–13.

In Acts 7 Luke records these hardened Jews attack and kill a man named Stephen and Saul was one of the perpetrators. In Acts 8 outright persecution and injury was leveled against this new sect of "Judaism" and Christian Jews were being attacked by their brethren the Jews.

1 And Saul was consenting unto his death.
And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1.

The apostles did not obey Jesus to go to Samaria, Judaea, and the uttermost parts of the earth where Jews lived among Gentiles to herald the good news of Messiah's advent, it was the common folk. The gospel message did go out but it was by the born-again Jews God through persecution caused to scatter and, in their scattering, told other Jews what happened to them (Pentecost) and what transpired to a Jew who claimed to be king and deliverer of the people of Israel.

That "stone of stumbling" and "rock of offense" Jews could not get past was the testimony of the people who witnessed it how a man who 'hung on a tree' and was cursed of God was also their Savior and King. For the most part Jews were a sensible people, but this fact as testified by others about Jesus also caused great alarm and dismay because in their minds Jesus' crucifixion was a stumbling stone they could not get past to see also the other side of that "fiery serpent on a pole" and the "curse among the people" was indeed their long-awaited Son of God and Savior of the Jewish people.

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:30–33.

Along with the ability of the Spirit of Promise to open men's hearts (Lydia) He came with the power to harden their hearts and force violent conflict. And these mixed-race "Gentiles" that never "followed after righteousness" because they grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture and were "[at] that at that time were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" (Eph 2:12) knew nothing of their Hebrew heritage, their culture and their religion (Law of Moses) because they did not trust the prophets - Moses, Jeremiah, and Isaiah - who prophesied exactly the miraculous birth of their Savior and the lamb led to the slaughter by the God of Israel. God Himself gave the Hebrew people a fiery serpent on a pole/cross and told the people to "look on 'it'" in order to be saved. They stumbled at that stumbling stone", that "rock of offense" that offended their sensibilities and brought with it judgment as well as healing and salvation. To them the 'letter of the Law' was so ingrained in their consciences they could not - without the Spirit's help - understand the 'spirit of the Law' in order to be saved. It was a vicious 'catch-22', God had put into their deliverance and redemption that many could not see through because God had blinded their eyes and "therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them" John 12:37–40.

Without this 'stopgap' placed intentionally into the gospel message of salvation by God millions more Jews would be saved and not just thousands day by day. The evangelistic fervor prophesied for Israel in the last days would have been short-circuited' and Jesus would have returned within days, exactly what their Jewish minds also understood by Jesus' last words, "I will come again."

The stumbling stone was the Law.

@jeremiah1five, I believe that you are seriously in error in your understanding of so much of God's word and as such I must simply ignore most of what you post. Trying to make sense of it is simply too time consuming and unproductive. I don't say that to be offensive; I say that because I firmly believe it is true.

I know that nothing that I post here will have any affect on what you believe.

 

[Victoria]

That depends on what you mean by "spiritual understanding available through the Holy Spirit". If you mean that the Holy Spirit provides understanding directly to all Christians then I do not agree. What we have from the Holy Spirit is God's written word. Clearly God has decided that everything that you need to have available to you is contained within that written word. If that isn't true, then it would seem that the Holy Spirit by God's own direction has not done the job need

To me, it means a literal interpretation of the scriptures where things God said are meant to be taken literally. When studying the Word, one can tell when something is meant as figurative/allegorical or not (i.e. that Jesus isn't an actual lamb, or an actual loaf of bread, etc.).

Yes and the thoughts and attitudes of Christ Jesus then we need to align with are those presented in God's written word. Again, if what is in God's written word is not sufficient for us to do that, then that is on God not us. But of course, it is sufficient.

Amen! It wouldn't feel appropriate, as one example, placing myself in the twelve's audience, whom were sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. When Jesus said Paul is His chosen vessel to bear His name before the Gentiles, & Paul stating he is the apostle of the Gentiles... I take God at His Word, & obey it. This is what's meant by taking scripture literally.

It doesn't mean we ignore the rest of the Bible, Paul said it was written for our learning. Peter warns of those unlearned, & unstable wresting the scriptures to their own destruction. The Hebrew epistles were written to the scattered tribes, not Gentiles.

My response to anyone who comes to me with any sort of a "God told me" this or that is always "God told me to ignore you".

that's perfect!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Im giving you biblical truth. Gentiles were grafted into Covenant Israel Eph 3 and Rom 11 and partake of the New Covenant Promises that Jeremiah wrote of

You add to the Bible. That's not true.

 

[civic]

Agreed in part, Jim. Would you then say the chapter doesn't also highlight the importance of spiritual understanding available to all Christians through the Holy Spirit? How else could we compare spiritual things w/ spiritual when it comes to doctrine?

I wholeheartedly agree w/ you here as well. Gnosticism has no place in the church.

It also emphasizes the importance of aligning our thoughts, & attitudes w/ those of Christ Jesus.

What Paul says here for example...

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove
what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:2

And in Ephesians 4:17-32, where Paul lays out the Christian's walk. How else could Christians model Christ to others if our thoughts, & attitudes aren't aligned w/ His?

Yes indeed !

The Mind is a Battlefield.

Battlefield means the field or ground upon which a battle is fought. 2. and area of contention, conflict, or hostile opposition.” A battlefield is a place of hostile opposition. A battlefield is a place where battles are won and lost. Everyday – every moment – there is a battle going on in our minds between right and wrong, good and bad, God’s way or Satan’s way, the Spirit or the flesh. It is our wills that determine who wins control of our minds, and because actions follow thoughts, ultimately who wins control of our very lives

The enemy attacked Eve in her mind/reasoning and tried the same with Jesus. He tried to cause doubt with Gods word and succeeded with Eve (did God really say? And you will not surely die) and he failed with Jesus. He attacks us today in the same way. The sword of the spirit which is the word of God is our only offensive weapon and defense against our enemy. Jesus did not use Hid Divine power as God to defeat satan, He used the same means we have at our disposal to defeat the enemy- the Word of God!

1-We must know Gods Word- Jesus used Gods word against the enemy.

2-We must memorize Gods Word. Ps 119:11, Ps 37:31, Ps 40:8

3- We must meditate on Gods Word- Joshua 1:8, Ps 1:2, Ps 119:147-48

4- We must use Gods Word- John 14:26. It is written was Jesus’ response. Matt 4:1-11

5- We must train ourselves in Gods Word- discipline, training, practice. 1 Tim 4:7, 1 Cor 9:25-27, 2 Tim 2:1-7.

Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny.” Our destiny is tied directly to and starts with our thoughts.

Romans 8:5-14-Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God

Colossians 3:1-10- Therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, keep seeking the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on the things that are above, not on the things that are on earth. 3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.5 Therefore, treat the parts of your earthly body as dead to sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, rid yourselves of all of them: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene speech from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you stripped off the old self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created it

1 Peter 1:13-16 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.

Galatians 5:16-18- So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16- However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Romans 12:1-2-Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Ephesians 4:17-25-Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires,23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

Philippians 2:1-5 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

Philippians 4:8-Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.

Proverbs 4:23- Be careful how you think; your life is shaped by your thoughts.

Proverbs 23:7- As a man thinks in his heart so is he. Cf Deut 4:9, Proverbs 4. Col 3:23, Prov 22:29


I started a thread on this topic a couple of years ago below.

Thread 'Connecting the Mind, Heart, Spirit with the Word'

Jul 24, 2023

The Spirit and the Mind. A check up from the neck up! The Mind is a Battlefield.

Battlefield means the field or ground upon which a battle is fought. 2. and area of contention, conflict, or hostile opposition.” A battlefield is a place of hostile opposition. A battlefield is a place where battles are won and lost. Everyday – every moment – there is a battle going on in our minds between right and wrong, good and bad, God’s way or Satan’s way, the Spirit or the flesh. It is our wills that determine who wins control of our minds, and because actions follow thoughts, ultimately who...

• civic
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Count the Cost

• 

hope this helps !!!

 

[jeremiah1five]

In fact, the Law reveals no such thing. In fact, Paul devoted all of Romans 1:18-3:20 to explain the impotence of the Law as a way of salvation. If that was revealed in the law, there would have been no real reason for Paul to devote all of that time to explain it.

And against what you are preaching here, the NT, again and again, exclaim the truth that salvation has absolutely nothing to do with genetics. The first five verses of Romans 2 shows that the Jews are under the wrath of God no less than the Gentiles and the next five verse declare that God will be partial to no one in salvation.

The Ceremonial Law has salvation written all over it. What do you think took place in the Tabernacle? God gave the Hebrews substitutional sacrifice that prefigured Christ's Work to come when He arrived. Isaiah prophesied about a Suffering Servant and the Law was his source. For centuries God had been working towards the day when He would remove the barrier that kept His people separated from Him. A change is coming for Israel. I hope I am alive to see it. It will be amazing, and frightening.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Alright.

Now if salvation was through covenant, as you have always maintained... then it is because you also have maintained, at least when I DMed you a few times... that there is no new covenant that covers Gentiles.

I take the Scripture as written - as all true-born of God should. God saves through covenant and there is no covenant between God and non-Hebrews. The Abraham, Mosaic, and New Covenants are between God and the Hebrew people, non-Hebrew Gentiles excluded. Especially the New Covenant. The text clearly states the parties of this covenant are God, the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes or sons of Jacob and their descendants), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes or sons of Jacob and their descendants.) All the biological seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are covered by covenant. God is saving Jews, not non-Hebrews.

Assuming you believe this, and I am beyond arguing that point with you.... why in the world then , (if salvation was a covenant thing (OT covenant) )
first ~ did Jesus have to be sent back for His lost sheep of Israel? Were they not automatically covered by heritage and blood?

With covenant came terms of endearment, and one of those is security. The covenant, along with circumcision was to divide and separate the people God made covenant with and anyone not his descendant. The Hebrew people are only "lost" by virtue of man's creation.

AND~ Why in the world did Jesus have to be tortured to death if they were covered under their covenant?

For the same reason the animal sacrificed under the Law had to die. LIFE is in the BLOOD!

 

[Victoria]

Yes indeed !

The Mind is a Battlefield.

Battlefield means the field or ground upon which a battle is fought. 2. and area of contention, conflict, or hostile opposition.” A battlefield is a place of hostile opposition. A battlefield is a place where battles are won and lost. Everyday – every moment – there is a battle going on in our minds between right and wrong, good and bad, God’s way or Satan’s way, the Spirit or the flesh. It is our wills that determine who wins control of our minds, and because actions follow thoughts, ultimately who wins control of our very lives

The enemy attacked Eve in her mind/reasoning and tried the same with Jesus. He tried to cause doubt with Gods word and succeeded with Eve (did God really say? And you will not surely die) and he failed with Jesus. He attacks us today in the same way. The sword of the spirit which is the word of God is our only offensive weapon and defense against our enemy. Jesus did not use Hid Divine power as God to defeat satan, He used the same means we have at our disposal to defeat the enemy- the Word of God!

1-We must know Gods Word- Jesus used Gods word against the enemy.

2-We must memorize Gods Word. Ps 119:11, Ps 37:31, Ps 40:8

3- We must meditate on Gods Word- Joshua 1:8, Ps 1:2, Ps 119:147-48

4- We must use Gods Word- John 14:26. It is written was Jesus’ response. Matt 4:1-11

5- We must train ourselves in Gods Word- discipline, training, practice. 1 Tim 4:7, 1 Cor 9:25-27, 2 Tim 2:1-7.

Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny.” Our destiny is tied directly to and starts with our thoughts.

Romans 8:5-14-Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God

Colossians 3:1-10- Therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, keep seeking the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on the things that are above, not on the things that are on earth. 3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.5 Therefore, treat the parts of your earthly body as dead to sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, rid yourselves of all of them: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene speech from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you stripped off the old self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created it

1 Peter 1:13-16 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.

Galatians 5:16-18- So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16- However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Romans 12:1-2-Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Ephesians 4:17-25-Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires,23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

Philippians 2:1-5 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

Philippians 4:8-Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.

Proverbs 4:23- Be careful how you think; your life is shaped by your thoughts.

Proverbs 23:7- As a man thinks in his heart so is he. Cf Deut 4:9, Proverbs 4. Col 3:23, Prov 22:29


I started a thread on this topic a couple of years ago below.

Thread 'Connecting the Mind, Heart, Spirit with the Word'

Jul 24, 2023

The Spirit and the Mind. A check up from the neck up! The Mind is a Battlefield.

Battlefield means the field or ground upon which a battle is fought. 2. and area of contention, conflict, or hostile opposition.” A battlefield is a place of hostile opposition. A battlefield is a place where battles are won and lost. Everyday – every moment – there is a battle going on in our minds between right and wrong, good and bad, God’s way or Satan’s way, the Spirit or the flesh. It is our wills that determine who wins control of our minds, and because actions follow thoughts, ultimately who...

• civic
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Count the Cost

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hope this helps !!!

Amen!

 

[jeremiah1five]

The stumbling stone was the Law.

@jeremiah1five, I believe that you are seriously in error in your understanding of so much of God's word and as such I must simply ignore most of what you post. Trying to make sense of it is simply too time consuming and unproductive. I don't say that to be offensive; I say that because I firmly believe it is true.

I know that nothing that I post here will have any affect on what you believe.

The Law was the way to Christ, it was a schoolmaster and they were "kept" until the God-man would come to bring everything to a head and to finalize the deal.

The Law was not a "stumbling stone." You need to step away from those Gentile theology books and do some original thinking on your own under the anointing. And use a King James. It's been authorized by God for the English-speaking people. You do have the Holy Spirit, don't you? The Holy Spirit, a good translation, a good, reliable linguist [Strong], and commitment to do what God had commanded His people: Search the Scripture, for they are that which testify of Me.

Get rid of those books! It's other people's bible studies that are tripping you up. Ultimately, we must all see the same Jesus; we must all say the same thing as God.
To do otherwise is to oppose Him.

Try thinking things through on your own and stop short-circuiting your thinking. Look for the answers on your own. But the Word of God must first dwell in you richly and then God will bring things to your remembrance.

 

[Jim]

And use a King James. It's been authorized by God for the English-speaking people. You do have the Holy Spirit, don't you? The Holy Spirit, a good translation, a good, reliable linguist [Strong], and commitment to do what God had commanded His people: Search the Scripture, for they are that which testify of Me.

I think you mean Holy Ghost as in the KJV; there is no Holy Spirit in your God-authorized English version.

 

[brightfame52]

You add to the Bible. That's not true.

I'm giving you the truth

 

[jeremiah1five]

I think you mean Holy Ghost as in the KJV; there is no Holy Spirit in your God-authorized English version.

Au Contraire, James.

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm giving you the truth

Here is Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant.
Point to the exact clause where "Gentiles" are mentioned:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:31–34.

 

[brightfame52]

Here is Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant.
Point to the exact clause where "Gentiles" are mentioned

I'm quite familiar with the prophecy of Jeremiah and the New Covenant. We have discussed this