The faith of Jesus Christ versus the faith of man

@jeremiah1five
NO GENTILES.
Jeremiah, are you a Gentile?

The new birth is not by bloodline, for we all have Adam's blood flowing through our veins~Jews and Gentiles.

Acts 17:26​

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;”

There is not one thing special about having Abraham bloodline, Abraham was made special by grace alone.

1st Peter 2:9​

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar (special) people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”
 
@Jim @brightfame52

Actually Jim, Calvin and probably Augustine (have not read enough on Augustine's teachings from his own writings) would agree with you on this issue more than they would that Jesus' faith and obedience is the means of our "free" justification, both were good men no doubt, yes confused on this point.

Jim you refuse to acknowledge and separate the two natures of Jesus, his Divinity and his humanity, and as long as you continue in this error, you will continue to reject the true biblical teaching that as a man Christ secured the redemption of God's elect by being their surety, by being made in the likeness of sinful flesh for the payment of sin, to condemned sin in flesh by his perfect faith and obedience in the stead of God's elect.
I do not refuse to acknowledge and separate the two natures of Jesus. I do recognize that Jesus took on the physical limitations of the human being. That does not place limits upon his spiritual being.

Romans speaks of Jesus being in the likeness of sinful flesh, i.e., human flesh. It does not speak of Jesus being in the likeness of human spirit. The Word was God, i.e., Spirit. The Word took on the flesh and blood of the human being (John 1:14; Heb 2:14). The Spirit of that human being was the Word.

You trivialize the deity and divinity of Jesus Christ you speak of the faith OF Christ. As I have said before, Romans 3:22; Galatians 2:16; 3:22 and Revelation the Greek phrase διὰ πίστεως ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ or ἐκ πίστεως ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ or τὴν πίστιν ᾿Ιησοῦ are in the dative case. The Greek dative can take on four versions. Which version is appropriate in any case must be determined by context. The translation/interpretation in nearly all English versions except the KJV is "faith in Jesus Christ". Even John Gill renders the Greek dative case here as believing IN Christ, i.e., as faith IN Christ.

In all such cases, Jesus Christ is taken as the dative object of faith, and not the dative possession of faith. You must give up your futile clinging to the concept of Jesus Christ that needs or has faith in God rather than inherent experience-based knowledge of God. Spiritually, Jesus was and is God.
 
God is betrothed to Israel. Israel is His Bride and His Church ("ekklesias" = "called out [ones]) whom He called out of Egypt as He declares many times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Love is not supposed to boast, right? How many times does God who is love to boast about delivering His people with a mighty arm?

8 And the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders: Deuteronomy 26:8.

Deuteronomy 4:34, Deuteronomy 5:15, Deuteronomy 7:19, Deuteronomy 11:2, Psalm 136:12, and Jeremiah 32:21.

Wow! How many times does God make that declaration? What a boast! And still very true.
The New Covenant promises are for Gentiles that is the Mystery
 
God is betrothed to Israel. Israel is His Bride and His Church ("ekklesias" = "called out [ones]) whom He called out of Egypt as He declares many times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Love is not supposed to boast, right? How many times does God who is love to boast about delivering His people with a mighty arm?

8 And the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders: Deuteronomy 26:8.

Deuteronomy 4:34, Deuteronomy 5:15, Deuteronomy 7:19, Deuteronomy 11:2, Psalm 136:12, and Jeremiah 32:21.

Wow! How many times does God make that declaration? What a boast! And still very true.
Christ is betrothed to the church that consists of both Jews and Gentiles. :)

Eph. 2:14
Romans 9:4
Acts 15:14
Gal. 3:28
 
As I said, I am not going to debate it. But I will state that you are wrong. If you wish to take it further, then start a new topic.
Stonewalled when challenged. Duly noted.
Greetings Victoria,

Start a thread on this~As I have said I do not believe in the replacement theory, since since the NT revelation of the church (there was a church in the OT btw, yet they had not yet received the king of the kingdom of God as the NT church has and even we are still awaiting for the full and final manifestation of the kingdom in the new earth and heaven) is not a after thought of God's eternal purposes, but a continually unfolding of the mystery hidden from the foundation of the world, but now being revealed unto God's people under the revelation of the unfolding of the everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ in the NT, explained to us by apostles, who were JEWS by nature. What better source to draw from and to believe than Paul, Peter and John.
I've noticed you tend to go silent when it comes to questions you're unable to answer.
 
I believe it's of and not in.

Of makes it about Christ. In makes it about you. And the oldest translations are a whole bunch more reliable than the new ones.

In the verses where the phrase is disputed, it IS about you. It IS YOUR FAITH IN Christ that saves you.

"For by (God's) grace you have been saved through (your) faith; and that (salvation) is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

Jesus offers the gift to ALL, but if they don't receive it, they won't get it. We receive the gift of salvation by OUR faith in Jesus, NOT by His faith.

Again, He is the OBJECT of our faith. He doesn't believe for us - that's our job. To think that He does the believing for us is Calvinism, which is not Biblical.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

Since He is God in the flesh, what things does He NOT see?
 
National Israel does not even exist anymore. The only theological Israel that exists is spiritual Israel. You need to read and study Romans 11, particularly verses 25-36. The "Israel" that is the Bride of Christ is all believers, all who are in Christ. There are no bloodline limitations in Christ's Israel.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I am not sure that the view that you have presented above that the Bride of Christ is physical Israel, wherein Gentiles are absent, is consistent with the rules of this forum. This is after all a Christian based forum. I think you need to be very careful.
You are incorrect.
On the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) circa AD 34, the Holy Spirit came down from heaven and three thousand Jews were born-again, baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ thereby inaugurating the birth of the Church Jesus promised to build, and natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel.

The Old Testament identifies Israel is betrothed to God thereby making Israel the Bride - NOT Gentiles.
Nowhere in the Old Testament does God call Gentiles His Bride or that He is betrothed to Gentiles. If that was true, then God has two women as His Bride and He is guilty of adultery. That's what it's called when a Husbandman gives marital love to a woman not His Bride. So, your argument that Gentiles is the Bride of Christ falls apart and fails. God is not an adulterer as you make Him out to be with your erroneous theology.

In Galatians 3:28-29 Saul is addressing Jews, NOT Gentiles. Now pay attention to the text.

23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [JEWS] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [JEWS] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [JEWS] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

What the next verse refers to is the concern - maybe worry - of Jews who were concerned with their standing as Abraham's seed because they were now followers of Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [JEWS} are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [JEWS] be Christ’s, then are ye [STILL JEWS AND] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:22–29.

Gentiles were never under the Law (3:23), Jews were. Saul calls the Law [our] "schoolmaster." Saul says that now that "faith" (the Holy Spirit) has come we [Jews] are no longer under a schoolmaster (the Law) and he means that in the way that we do not receive our righteousness by obeying the Law. Jesus taught that.
Saul, as rabbi and Pharisee is bringing up the prayer of Jews, but mainly the elders of the Sanhedrin which originally states, "I thank thee O' God that I was nor born a Greek [Gentile], or a slave, or a female", the epitome of subtle racist and misogynistic attitudes among Jews and their religious leaders. In one sentence Saul destroys that Jewish 'theology'.

Galatians has many references to the Law, Abraham, the prophets, their culture, and their religion, all these things the Gentiles are unconcerned with and are ignorant of. Saul is not saying the Law should not be obeyed because He commands Timothy and those with him that "All Scripture (Law and Prophets) is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS so that the man of God be throughly furnished unto ALL GOOD WORKS." (2 Timothy 3:16-17.)

Not only that but Saul was a rabbi and remained a Pharisee and was obedient to the Law and was a man seen and received by Jews and elders of the Sanhedrin as a man of impeccable character and service to God:

Spoken of to Saul:

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.

Saul makes this confession here:

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:13–14.

Or are you going to reject these truths I have posted above, reject the Word of God, and hold to your false Constantinian Gentile theology that lies about God and His Word.

Saul says, "I believe all things written in the Law and the Prophets."

They say of Saul: "but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law."

Do you reject this?
 
@jeremiah1five

Jeremiah, are you a Gentile?

The new birth is not by bloodline, for we all have Adam's blood flowing through our veins~Jews and Gentiles.

Acts 17:26​

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;”

There is not one thing special about having Abraham bloodline, Abraham was made special by grace alone.
Why do you and others interpret the Scripture using 21st century word meanings and nuances? There were NO NATIONS in Biblical times. Not in the same sense as nations exist today with a border, politics, a culture, maybe a religion, and organized armies. The people in the Middle East were all nomads. They were tribes, and groups of people with a common purpose living in the desert. They didn't have borders. Sure, they had land, but they owned the sand. The first rising of nations began in Europe during Charlemagne's reign. When we get to the Russo-Austrian war of the 1870 there were many kingdoms in Europe. When World War One jumped off you had the kaiser, the Tsar, kings and queens and everyone was related to each other that fought that war. With the League of Nations - which the U.S. Congress rejected to join - nations were beginning to arise in Europe. WW2 was a war among nation-states. In the Middle East there were territories like Trans-Joedan, Persia/Iran didn't even exist. Israel was governed by Great Britain (remember the Balfour Declaration?) The Middle East was a conglomerate of small insignificant kingdom and tribal territories. When Israel declared their Independence in 1948 then other Middle Eastern territories and kingdoms solidified into nations.

The translated word (KJV) "nations" meant "Goyim" or non-Hebrew. Later it came to mean "Gentiles."

The ONE BLOOD refers to Abraham who was the father of many. Through Ishmael, Esau, and others who were born blessed with Abraham but not possessing the covenant promises.

1st Peter 2:9​

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar (special) people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”
Peter is quoting the Old Testament. You can't make it to fit Gentiles when the original use was of Israel.
 
In the verses where the phrase is disputed, it IS about you. It IS YOUR FAITH IN Christ that saves you.

"For by (God's) grace you have been saved through (your) faith; and that (salvation) is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

Jesus offers the gift to ALL, but if they don't receive it, they won't get it. We receive the gift of salvation by OUR faith in Jesus, NOT by His faith.

Again, He is the OBJECT of our faith. He doesn't believe for us - that's our job. To think that He does the believing for us is Calvinism, which is not Biblical.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

Since He is God in the flesh, what things does He NOT see?
Where does it say "For by (God's) grace you have been saved through (your) faith?
 
@Victoria @Jim
I've noticed you tend to go silent when it comes to questions you're unable to answer.
Then Miss Victoria you have not learned of me as of yet. I said to start a thread on this subject and I'll will come, and I will. I'm leaving at around 8:00 this morning be back this weekend the Lord willing, have it ready and I'll post.

Btw, start with a question you think I cannot answer, and let see if I can. When you just rebuke Jim and I (very gracious I might add) You are rebuking men that have been in the faith for over 100 years combined, I think we have covered your subject a few times over during this span.
 
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The New Covenant promises are for Gentiles that is the Mystery
No, it is not.
There is no covenant in the Old Testament between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. If there were we would know the person's name with whom God made promises. But there is none. The blood of the sacrifice for sins - temporary or eternal - must be applied to the Mercy Seat which is part of the Ark of the Covenant God instructed the children of Israel to build in the desert after they were delivered from Egypt, etc.

There is no Mercy Seat for Gentiles for Gentiles were never included in the Law of Moses (Mosaic Covenant.)
 
The Mystery is that Gentiles are included as fellow heirs Gal 3 28 and 29
Good Lord, man.
Galatians is a letter addressed to Jews and Jewish Christians. Saul clearly makes this evident when he says "we [Jews] were under the Law, a 'schoolmaster.'" Gentiles were never under the Law and so Saul is writing to Jews explaining to these Jewish Christians who were now "Christ-followers" and disciples who were concerned with their status as "Abraham's seed and heirs of those promises" if being "of Christ" they lose out on those promises to Abraham. Saul says if you are Christ's, you are STILL Abraham's seed and HEIRS ACCORDING TO THOSE PROMISES."

Hello?
 
I already said yes. Now does Jesus have a God? Yes or no?
Before resurrection He did. He died as a man under the Law and heir to the covenants. He is the biological seed of Abraham, even going back to Adam. Luke and Matthew record His human genealogy. And as a man like any other man under the Law He worshiped and served the Father who was also as a man God to Him. "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me" doesn't mean anything to you about His personhood?
 
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