FreeInChrist
Active Member
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The faith of Jesus Christ versus the faith of man
- Thread starter MTMattie
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Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Yes it is my friend . What a lovely home awaits the sheep one day .
What a day of rejoicing it will be ...
Till then we must armour up cause the days will o nly quickly get worse a nd worse as this delusion
grows . JESUS preaching time . WE point TO HIM . All else is vain . To the trenches my friend .
Peterlag
Active Member
Jesus Christ like all men has his own faith. Mind is not yours. Yours is not mine.
brightfame52
Active Member
Jesus is and was a Spiritual man and father and had a seed like Adam did. Jesus imparted His Spirituality to His Spiritual Seed, Faith is part of His Spirituality so He author it in His Children. Heb 12:2
Peterlag
Active Member
The way you talk kind a sounds like you think Jesus is God. And that God's faith is written in the Scriptures.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The ONLY faith that is of any consequence and that works and produces results is the faith of Jesus Christ.
[Dead] men have no faith, which is why there needed to be someone who had faith in order to not only ask God according to His will, but to receive answer to prayers offered up in perfect faith. And ONLY Jesus Christ had the faith that men lacked and which God honored.
True faith is Christ Himself. It was His perfect faith that God honored and through which anyone is saved.
brightfame52
Active Member
The Faith/Faithfulness of Christ is imparted to His Children, they partake of His Divine nature as they did of Adams nature 2 Pet 1:1-5
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
Peterlag
Active Member
I write it this way...
When it comes to the faith of Jesus Christ, we must understand the relationship Jesus Christ has with God to have this faith. It's beyond just trusting God because of the acceptance of the new established covenant that demands obedience to God’s testimony. Faith is not a leap in the dark, but a leap through the dark into the light. It's the intelligent acceptance of the report of a reliable witness that would persuade one to accept something as the truth in the reliability of the testimony. The faith of Jesus Christ is the relationship existing between God and Christ in the bond of the covenant between them. To recognize and acknowledge the relationship God has entered into with Christ, we must first understand that God is the originator of the covenant relationship, and God is the one who brings into being things that did not previously exist. This is His oath, His covenant, and He can be relied on to keep His part of the contract because He guarantees it, and this is His truth.
Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son who is expressing the acknowledgment of his Father’s promises and power. As I stated earlier, the faith of Jesus Christ is the relationship existing between God and Christ in the bond of the covenant between them. The faith Christ has is his faith because of his acknowledgment and acceptance of his Father’s new covenant. Thus, the “gospel of Christ” is born. This faith Jesus Christ has is solid because it's the trust Jesus Christ has with God, who brought him into this special relationship that created the bond of the new covenant between them. We can tap into this faith by our believing and walk and live within the power of the Scriptures because we are connected to the faith of Jesus Christ. It's not our believing that makes us righteous, but the faith of Jesus Christ, whereby we not only have our standing, but also have access to the high and holy privilege that comes with that spiritual standing.
This sounds like your faith in your faith rather than true biblical faith. It certainly is not good to try to learn the topic of faith from a unitarian.
Peterlag
Active Member
It sounds like it's over your head.
Sure. the way you express it is like monkey flinging feces over my head but missing me. I'm not going to try to catch a meal off of it.
Victoria
Active Member
I cannot believe we actually agree on something. "Of" would be correct
The discussion hovers around the question whether many verses should be translated as saying the faith of Christ Jesus or faith in Christ Jesus. The latter has properly been the dominant view over 2000 years.
Actually the idea of "faith of Christ Jesus" has not been the debate in recent years but rather the idea of passages speaking of the faithfulness of Jesus -- such as in serving God, and dying on the Christ. I think there are enough strong arguments to basically reject that view too. However, some people suggest that the wording can preserve both the "faithfulness of Christ" along with the "faith in Christ." That does not have to be totally rejected since we could be reminded that the reason we have faith in Christ is due to his faithfulness (but also that he is God).
I suppose the title of this thread means I defend the position of faith of man in Christ.
The problem in the OT was that the Israel people kept falling away from faith toward God. Note it may be clearer to recognize that faith is toward God rather than faith in God, though these both are close enough and both are acceptable. The idea to highlight concerns the object of our faith. It is not so much a faith in the bible (as a printed book). Faith must be in the person who makes the promises and who created us.
Thus we have that faith equally toward Christ Jesus as per Gal 2:20:
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. He is the one who both provides our status of eternal righteousness and is fulfills all for us by his power.
Thus we have that faith equally toward Christ Jesus as per Gal 2:20:
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. He is the one who both provides our status of eternal righteousness and is fulfills all for us by his power.
Funny that I just read this view of faith of Christ Jesus in the following text
This is the first time I noticed that "faith of Christ" phrase in this book so I have no context to explain what he means by that.
Victoria
Active Member
I believe this view falls under the debate of whether God promised to preserve His Word throughout all generations,
it seems to be what's implied here. Although a vast majority may not believe so, I do.
This, I believe, depends on whether a Christian believes salvation is conditional.
What I find so amazing about God's love is that He remains faithful even when we don't, as described in 2 Timothy 2:11-13...
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
The denial of Him doesn't mean loss of salvation, an often misconception, rather, it means He'll deny us the right to reign w/ Him in the heavens. He even abideths faithful to the promises of a future restoration to the nation of Israel...
"Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God." Ezekiel 36:22-28
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
This is what mine says.
Hmm, he's probably using both the Alexandrian manuscripts & the Textus Receptus manuscripts. That could be why.
dwight92070
Active Member
The Greek which is older than any translation says it can be either "of" or "in". I think it's "in".
Therefore the age of the translation matters little.
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." NASB
It would unBiblical to say that we live by Christ's faith. He doesn't exercise faith for us. We must exercise faith ourselves.
Jesus did not say: Repent and I'll believe in the gospel for you.
He said: "(You) repent and (you) believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15
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The translation choice of the KJV as "faith of the Son of God" helps to see how some of the debate has developed. I'm glad to see this detail.
Victoria
Active Member
When in doubt, we could also consider it like this... from the moment we wake each day 'till the moment we fall asleep each night, do we really honor God in every word, thought, & deed? Although we're saved, we still live in our sinful flesh until the day of our redemption. That's where we fall miserably short. Jesus Christ was perfect b/c only God can be perfect
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