The Doctrine of God

atpollard

Well-known member
“Over the years, I’ve had opportunities to teach systematic theology in a variety of settings, from seminary classrooms to university courses to Sunday school classes in the local church. But no matter where I’ve taught systematics, the first place I typically start is the doctrine of God. Theology, of course, studies God and His character and ways, so it’s appropriate to begin with a look at His nature and attributes before examining what the Bible has to say about redemption, the church, the last things, and the other categories of systematic theology.

Whenever I’ve taught the doctrine of God, I’ve started out with two statements that have seemed to fill many of my students with no small amount of consternation. It’s been my practice to tell them that on the one hand there’s nothing particularly unique about the doctrine of God confessed in the Reformed tradition of Christian theology. Presbyterians, Reformed Baptists, the Dutch Reformed, and other Reformed Christians affirm the same attributes of God that Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, the Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholics all do. There’s nothing radically different about our doctrine of God.

Yet, when those same students have asked me what’s the most significant distinctive of Reformed theology, I’ve said it’s our doctrine of God. Now, that does sound completely contradictory to my first statement, but I say that the Reformed doctrine of God sets us apart from other traditions for the reason that I know of no other theology that takes seriously the doctrine of God with respect to every other doctrine. In most systematic theologies, you get an affirmation of the sovereignty of God on page one of your theology text, but then once you move on to soteriology (doctrine of salvation), eschatology (doctrine of last things), and anthropology (doctrine of humanity), and so on, the author has seemingly forgotten what he said about God’s sovereignty on page one.

Reformed theologians, however, self-consciously see the doctrine of God as informing the whole scope of Christian theology. That’s one of the reasons why Calvinists tend to focus so much on the Old Testament. We’re concerned about the character of God as defining everything—our understanding of Christ, our understanding of ourselves, our understanding of salvation. We turn to the Old Testament because it’s one of the most important sources that you find anywhere in the universe on the nature and character of God. Reformed Christians tend to take the Old Testament very seriously because it’s such a vivid revelation of the majesty of God.

Just think of the key revelations of God in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 6 we find one of the most vivid disclosures of divine holiness in all of Scripture. Then, of course, there’s the Lord’s revelation of Himself and His covenant name to Moses at the burning bush that we read about in Exodus 3. That’s a must-read chapter for anyone seeking to understand God’s independence and self-existence. When I’ve sought a reminder of our Creator’s commitment to truth and His faithfulness to keep His covenant promises, I’ve often turned to Genesis 15, where God swears by Himself to fulfill His pledge to Abraham to give him innumerable descendants. And for a vivid portrayal of God’s unfailing, effectual love for His people—His bride—you can hardly find a better place to go in Scripture than the book of Hosea.

I could offer many more examples, but what do these episodes all have in common? These revelations of God all take place at various crisis points in the lives of God’s people. Both Isaiah and Moses were about to be sent on a great mission to proclaim the greatness of the Lord to hardened people. What did they need most at a time like that? Not a promise of success—indeed, Isaiah was told that his message would harden hearts (Isa. 6:8-13). No, what they needed was an understanding of the Lord’s character. When God wanted to give them assurance, He gave them Himself. The same was true of Abraham and Hosea. Humanly speaking, Abraham had little evidence to believe that God would give him many descendants. So, the Lord assured the patriarch of His faithfulness by committing Himself to His own destruction—an impossibility—should He not keep His Word. Hosea lived in a day when it seemed as if God had fully and finally cast off His people for their unfaithfulness. What hope could the Lord provide that He loved Israel with an everlasting love? It was the revelation of Himself as the Husband who is perfect in love and faithfulness.

Reformed theology’s doctrine of God and its emphasis on all of His attributes at every point in the unfolding of salvation sets it apart from other Christian understandings of the Lord. And our doctrine of God is drawn from Genesis through Revelation, from the Old Testament as much as from the New Testament. Why, therefore, wouldn’t we soak up the whole counsel of God and read both testaments with great devotion?”

- R. C. Sproul [source]
 
Just think of the key revelations of God in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 6 we find one of the most vivid disclosures of divine holiness in all of Scripture. Then, of course, there’s the Lord’s revelation of Himself and His covenant name to Moses at the burning bush that we read about in Exodus 3. That’s a must-read chapter for anyone seeking to understand God’s independence and self-existence. When I’ve sought a reminder of our Creator’s commitment to truth and His faithfulness to keep His covenant promises, I’ve often turned to Genesis 15, where God swears by Himself to fulfill His pledge to Abraham to give him innumerable descendants. And for a vivid portrayal of God’s unfailing, effectual love for His people—His bride—you can hardly find a better place to go in Scripture than the book of Hosea.

Ole R.C..........

Amazing man so full of himself...... so self serving....

It is difficult to deal with you because you always run away........

All this talk from R.C. and not one time is Jesus Christ mentioned. Not once.

Have you ever heard of a Theophany? When God by Himself swore , it was in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
There’s nothing radically different about our doctrine of God.

This is completely false and actually dishonest.

There is a very large difference under Calvinistic thought—God does not genuinely desire the well being of all his creation.

This is why Calvinists typically hesitate and choke to call God all-loving and all-good, and many refuse.


Calvinism alters two fundamental attributes of God:

1. It makes God less loving than he is.


Just as God is completely holy, completely just and completely powerful, so God is completely loving. The argument comes that God allowing a person to be lost that he could have theoretically saved, makes God less loving than he could be. But this is a wrong definition of love. Love does not mean that God does not have any other reasons or motives for doing something that might be stronger or more important to him than the love he holds for the lost. So whatever mysterious reasons God had for allowing people to be lost, does not override the truth that God genuinely loved those lost people; and to genuinely love is defined as genuinely desiring the well-being, which cannot be true of something you create for the intent and purpose to destroy. The character of God as revealed in Scripture is meant to help us determine things that might be harder to understand, and God is love and his tender mercies over all his works. This brings out an interesting point. Because unless everyone is OWED a chance under a so-called "Pelagian" type system, people will be offended. Since Calvinism and Arminianism share the belief that no one deserves the grace of God and all are born sinful and unworthy, both share the understanding that God is inherently offensive to sinful flesh, as Scripture very plainly reveals to us. So then, what is the difference between the two, if both have a so-called "mean" God?

— Under Arminianism God has a perfect attribute of love, is maximally loving and desirous for all to be saved, even though he does not owe it.

— Under Calvinism God has an imperfect attribute of partial love, only loving and desiring some to be saved, even though he does not owe it.

Thus for all God's attributes to be perfect—not just partially good, but maximally good—only the Arminian God is possible.

2. It makes God less good than he is.

Underneath all the secondary decrees and compatibilistic philoso-double speak Calvinism employs, is the unalterable logic God decrees all things. This means that however many "degrees of separation" you want to create in between the ultimate decree of God that something would be, and the enactment through external means to get to that decree, there is still underneath a chain from the decree of God to the fulfillment of God's decree that cannot logically be broken. This would indeed make God his own enemy and the author of all evil, purely by logic. Scripture tells us “the devil sows the tares," and "an enemy has done this," yet God would be the one essentially sowing the tares if Calvinism were true, the devil becoming merely God's agent. If God is any ANY way desiring ANY evil to ACTUALIZE rather than be a potential, evil is then God's primary desire, rather than secondary, and the devil is just doing God’s will, rather than being his enemy, with an opposing will. It is not being argued that God is morally obligated to be maximally good, rather by definition, God has self-defined as perfect in all his ways, and freely chosen to be maximally good, and thus, although God decreeing evil might be theoretically just and a measure of good, it cannot, by definition, be maximally good.

I believe we can make a strong cumulative logical argument from the attributes of God. I don't think any Bible-believing Christian can honestly say "God is partially X" for any other attribute and not feel a twinge of blasphemy inside—because God is perfect in all his ways, and whatever God is, is a good thing, it inevitably follows that for God to be perfect he must be each good thing to the greatest amount. Is God maximally or partially righteous? ...partially just? ...partially powerful? ...partially holy? ...partially pure? ...partially beautiful? ...partially worthy? ...partially omnipresent? ...partially self-sufficient? ...partially transcendent? ...partially infinite? ...partially faithful? ...partially perfect? Yet some don't blink an eye to claim God is not maximally loving or maximally good.
 
There is a very large difference under Calvinistic thought—God does not genuinely desire the well being of all his creation.
Did the Arminian God create all people (or is god only responsible for the existence of some of creation)?
Did the Arminian God create a hell?
Will the Arminian God send people to the hell that he created?
Does the Arminian God have a strange way of demonstrating His absolute infinite desire for the well being of all of his creation?

[Sproul was correct, you pay lip service to God’s sovereignty and then back peddle when you come to every other area (soteriology, eschatology, etc).]
 
[Sproul was correct, you pay lip service to God’s sovereignty and then back peddle when you come to every other area (soteriology, eschatology, etc).]

You cannot demonstrate any place I've backpedaled in these areas.

Stop your slander immediately.

If God has a strange way of showing love, SO WHAT. That's not for you to decide is a bad thing.

Who are you, O man.
 
You cannot demonstrate any place I've backpedaled in these areas.
...

So whatever mysterious reasons God had for allowing people to be lost
... Translation: God is not REALLY 100% sovereign; God does not "cause", God merely "allows".

Underneath all the secondary decrees and compatibilistic philoso-double speak Calvinism employs, is the unalterable logic God decrees all things. This means that however many "degrees of separation" you want to create in between the ultimate decree of God that something would be, and the enactment through external means to get to that decree, there is still underneath a chain from the decree of God to the fulfillment of God's decree that cannot logically be broken. This would indeed make God his own enemy and the author of all evil, purely by logic.
... Translation: If God was REALLY 100% sovereign, God would be responsible for "evil".

QED:
Sproul was correct, you pay lip service to God’s sovereignty and then back peddle when you come to every other area (soteriology, eschatology, etc).
 
Will you now answer MY questions, or continue to ignore them and feign indignation?
  • Did the Arminian God create all people (or is god only responsible for the existence of some of creation)?
  • Did the Arminian God create a hell?
  • Will the Arminian God send people to the hell that he created?
  • Does the Arminian God have a strange way of demonstrating His absolute infinite desire for the well being of all of his creation?
[The point being, in case it was not obvious, that your objections against "Calvinism" are actually objections to the SOVEREIGNTY of God and apply to any non-Universalist theology.]
 
Will you now answer MY questions, or continue to ignore them and feign indignation?
  • Did the Arminian God create all people (or is god only responsible for the existence of some of creation)? yes
  • Did the Arminian God create a hell? yes
  • Will the Arminian God send people to the hell that he created? yes by their free will
  • Does the Arminian God have a strange way of demonstrating His absolute infinite desire for the well being of all of his creation? No He gives them free will
[The point being, in case it was not obvious, that your objections against "Calvinism" are actually objections to the SOVEREIGNTY of God and apply to any non-Universalist theology.]
See the red above answering 1-4

No Sovereignty does not mean meticulous control over everything but it does mean control of somethings. :)

hope this helps !!!
 
Will you now answer MY questions, or continue to ignore them and feign indignation?
  • Did the Arminian God create all people (or is god only responsible for the existence of some of creation)?
  • Did the Arminian God create a hell?
  • Will the Arminian God send people to the hell that he created?
  • Does the Arminian God have a strange way of demonstrating His absolute infinite desire for the well being of all of his creation?
[The point being, in case it was not obvious, that your objections against "Calvinism" are actually objections to the SOVEREIGNTY of God and apply to any non-Universalist theology.]

I'll answer you.

1. No. God created male and female. Male and female created children.
2. Yes
3. God will send people to hell that reject Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve are not part of that equation.
4. Jesus died in the last days to establish the culpability of all mankind.

God does as He pleases. What you claim He does is irrelevant. You do not instruct God.
 
Merriam Webster Dictionary: SOVEREIGNTY
a : supreme power especially over a body politic​
b : freedom from external control : autonomy​
c : controlling influence​

Is God sovereign over His creation?
a. Does FREE WILL exist outside of God's will?​
b. Does FREE WILL control God's actions (like ability to save), thus diminishing Divine autonomy?​
c. Does God exert the controlling influence described in Job and Romans 1 ... restraining evil until He "gave them up/over to" it?​
[Sproul was correct, you pay lip service to God’s sovereignty and then back peddle when you come to every other area.]
 
Merriam Webster Dictionary: SOVEREIGNTY
a : supreme power especially over a body politic​
b : freedom from external control : autonomy​
c : controlling influence​

God doesn't play with puppets. You might but God is looking for real men.

You have a very real problem in understanding. You don't realize that what God doesn't do at times is just as important as what God does.

Like when God doesn't judge YOUR sorry sin for what is....

Is God sovereign over His creation?
a. Does FREE WILL exist outside of God's will?​
b. Does FREE WILL control God's actions (like ability to save), thus diminishing Divine autonomy?​
c. Does God exert the controlling influence described in Job and Romans 1 ... restraining evil until He "gave them up/over to" it?​
[Sproul was correct, you pay lip service to God’s sovereignty and then back peddle when you come to every other area.]

a. It is more accurate to say "Limited Will". There is no such things as a fully freewill. Will without power can be free but powerless to control anything but itself. Expand your horizons.
b. God is willing to save anyone. Nothing is diminished.
c. Or restrain evil till your carcass received Grace... right? How nice. How self serving. God will not do for you what He will not do for others.

Again. You don't council God. Thank you Lord Jesus you've hidden such things from the wise and revealed it to babies. Even a baby loves what he doesn't fully understand. How Gracious and kind you are Lord Jesus to us all.
 
Baptist Faith and Message 2000
[Written to be deliberately neutral towards Calvinism and Arminianism]

II. God​

There is one and only one living and true God. He is an intelligent, spiritual, and personal Being, the Creator, Redeemer, Preserver, and Ruler of the universe. God is infinite in holiness and all other perfections. God is all powerful and all knowing; and His perfect knowledge extends to all things, past, present, and future, including the future decisions of His free creatures. To Him we owe the highest love, reverence, and obedience. The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being.​

A. God the Father
God as Father reigns with providential care over His universe, His creatures, and the flow of the stream of human history according to the purposes of His grace. He is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, and all wise. God is Father in truth to those who become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ. He is fatherly in His attitude toward all men.​

B. God the Son
Christ is the eternal Son of God. In His incarnation as Jesus Christ He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. Jesus perfectly revealed and did the will of God, taking upon Himself human nature with its demands and necessities and identifying Himself completely with mankind yet without sin. He honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and in His substitutionary death on the cross He made provision for the redemption of men from sin. He was raised from the dead with a glorified body and appeared to His disciples as the person who was with them before His crucifixion. He ascended into heaven and is now exalted at the right hand of God where He is the One Mediator, fully God, fully man, in whose Person is effected the reconciliation between God and man. He will return in power and glory to judge the world and to consummate His redemptive mission. He now dwells in all believers as the living and ever present Lord.​

C. God the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, fully divine. He inspired holy men of old to write the Scriptures. Through illumination He enables men to understand truth. He exalts Christ. He convicts men of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. He calls men to the Saviour, and effects regeneration. At the moment of regeneration He baptizes every believer into the Body of Christ. He cultivates Christian character, comforts believers, and bestows the spiritual gifts by which they serve God through His church. He seals the believer unto the day of final redemption. His presence in the Christian is the guarantee that God will bring the believer into the fullness of the stature of Christ. He enlightens and empowers the believer and the church in worship, evangelism, and service.​

Pays 'lip service' to the sovereignty of God.

"... but FREE WILL"
throws a backhand to true sovereignty by elevating MAN to coequal status. Just as Satan Promised:
Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." So when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make [one] wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
- Genesis 3:4-6 [NKJV]
 
... Translation: God is not REALLY 100% sovereign; God does not "cause", God merely "allows".
... Translation: If God was REALLY 100% sovereign, God would be responsible for "evil".

There's no back pedaling, you are just drawing logical connections where there are not any. That's not my fault. It's like you have trained yourself to think a certain way so often no matter what that you think the ONLY logical conclusions are the one's you have already drawn concerning determinism. You have failed miserably to show any contradiction or inconsistency.

Will you now answer MY questions, or continue to ignore them and feign indignation?

More slander. I did not "feign indignation" I pointed out you are sinning and lying, lol. Then you just continue to slander anyway instead of repenting or apologizing.

I answered your question CLEARLY. I said God loves in a way that is strange to us. How is that not an answer? Why are you being dishonest? Do you not care about the truth?

You ask:

Does the Arminian God have a strange way of demonstrating His absolute infinite desire for the well being of all of his creation?

Since either you are just looking to be dishonest or have abysmally poor reading comprehension I will make it as simple as I can for you:

YES.
 
If God has a strange way of showing love, SO WHAT. That's not for you to decide is a bad thing.

Well, we would need to see how "strange" is the way God show us love. It shouldn't be so strange, because otherwise it ceases to be love, or his revelation ceases to be revelation and becomes concealment.

Let's suppose a man beats his wife almost every day and tells her that he loves her and that such is his personal, "strange" way to show love to her.
Would we advice that woman to believe his husband and accept his behavior?

In the moment God chooses to reveal to man, God wants to be understood. Not in his essence, of course, since that's eternally out of the reach of His creatures. But understood enough in his attributes, commandments and plans so that the concept of God is not in conflict with our most basic notions of good and evil, or logical thinking.

If the God the Calvinists believe in has a "strange" way to love, or if the God of the Arminians has a "strange" way to love, it is perfectly valid to question ourselves how "strange" is that and how "strange" we are willing to accept it.
Otherwise, we would believe any Moloch's priest claiming that Moloch demands us to sacrifice children on his shrine, because that is his "strange" way to love families.

So, to the frequent question "WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION GOD?"
I would answer: I'm not questioning God. I'm questioning a claim someone has made about God.
 
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So, to the frequent question "WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION GOD?" I would answer: I'm not questioning God. I'm questioning a claim someone has made about God.

This is moving the goal posts.

I am not saying you cannot question my view of God, that was never the point of contention.

The point of contention is can the Arminian God be called loving, and he can.

Because otherwise you are questioning God's authority.
 
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