Yes, at that point in time, Only Gods throne is ruling all of creation. So no matter where one is standing( earth, moon, heaven) they are standing before the throne.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
The Doctrine of Divine Simplicity
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Sorry but that scene is not on earthYes, at that point in time, Only Gods throne is ruling all of creation. So no matter where one is standing( earth, moon, heaven) they are standing before the throne.
Try again and read the text not your Watchtower theologyIsrael religion has been cut off( Matt 23:38-39) they outright refuse to do verse 39. Spiritual Israel made up of Israelites and gentiles are now Gods chosen. They all bless the real Jesus.
I know its you misinterpreting what is being said.
Revelation 7:1–8 (NASB 2020) — 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, holding the seal of the living God; and he called out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
The 144, 000 are on earth. They are Isrealites
The textNo they are not israelites, if you mean people following judaism today...
though some israelites may be among them...
one criteria for them, not the only, is
souls that came from Eden, who came from God..
souls not fleshbody types...
not some nationality of flesh bodies.
Revelation 7:1–8 (NASB 2020) — 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, holding the seal of the living God; and he called out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
You are not in accord with scripture
No I am afraid you do notI accept completely His Words.
What I do not accept is humans in the carnal mind
who have altered His words.
Your words
"unfortunately these translations derive from kjv in various historical ways. a sorcery text."
First there is no 144000 in the textChrist the first fruits relates the the 144k, the first to go...
and then, will be next, left behind jacob....
and the reign there at 25 would be 1000 years in eden paradise...
after which, satan goodbye forever...
as for subjection, that is evil realm thinking there..
since God's relationship is love with his Own actual
real sons.
the creature slave concept is evil realm
addition and alterations of the text...
But, there is no problem here, as already
Christ obeys God, as His son,
and so the same with His Spirit... for they are His Hands,
as Iranaeus put it so lovely...
For this is the family of Him...
all of us and Him...
so that subjugation concept
is not God's...but rather that of the evil realm
which only knows Force.
subjugation of those who Love God
would be a weird oxymoron...
Second, the issue is of Christ's reign
What is stated of Christs reign when the last enemy death is defeated?
Your assuming doesn't make a truth. Obviously you refuse to believe Jesus= Matt 5:5--Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth)= The great crowd. Psalm 37:29-The righteous( great crowd) will possess the earth and reside forever upon it--Prov 2:21-22 assures they are not going to heaven.Sorry but that scene is not on earth
Its symbolic for Gods chosen. John had no idea what the true religion would be called in the last days. Thus referenced Israel just meaning-Gods chosen or spiritual Israel.Try again and read the text not your Watchtower theology
Revelation 7:1–8 (NASB 2020) — 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, holding the seal of the living God; and he called out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
The 144, 000 are on earth. They are Isrealites
Just like virgins is symbolic for false religion at Rev 14:4
Um the text speaks of what is transpiring on earth and IsraelitesIts symbolic for Gods chosen. John had no idea what the true religion would be called in the last days. Thus referenced Israel just meaning-Gods chosen or spiritual Israel.
Just like virgins is symbolic for false religion at Rev 14:4
Revelation 7:1–8 (NASB 2020) — 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, holding the seal of the living God; and he called out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
The text does not support your theology
The 144, 000 are on earth. They are Isrealites
Read the textYour assuming doesn't make a truth. Obviously you refuse to believe Jesus= Matt 5:5--Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth)= The great crowd. Psalm 37:29-The righteous( great crowd) will possess the earth and reside forever upon it--Prov 2:21-22 assures they are not going to heaven.
Revelation 7:9–17 (UASV) — 9 After this I saw, and look! a great multitude, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes and with palm branches in their hands. 10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 All the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for the ages of the ages! Amen.” 13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from? 14 And I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and they serve him day and night in his temple: and the one seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 for the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of the water of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
and consider according to your argument everyone everywhere is before the throne which makes the reference irrelevant
Much of Revelation is symbolic. Only Jesus' 1 religion knows its truth.Um the text speaks of what is transpiring on earth and Israelites
Revelation 7:1–8 (NASB 2020) — 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, holding the seal of the living God; and he called out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
The text does not support your theology
The 144, 000 are on earth. They are Isrealites
verse 15-The one seated on his throne will spread his tent over them( great crowd)-Right))))))--Rev 21-1-3-- holy city coming down out of heaven( to earth obviously)3)the tent of God is with mankind( on earth)Read the text
Revelation 7:9–17 (UASV) — 9 After this I saw, and look! a great multitude, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes and with palm branches in their hands. 10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 All the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for the ages of the ages! Amen.” 13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from? 14 And I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and they serve him day and night in his temple: and the one seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 for the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of the water of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
and consider according to your argument everyone everywhere is before the throne which makes the reference irrelevant
Sorry you cannot use Rev 21 to interpret Rev 7verse 15-The one seated on his throne will spread his tent over them( great crowd)-Right))))))--Rev 21-1-3-- holy city coming down out of heaven( to earth obviously)3)the tent of God is with mankind( on earth)
You have been deceived by the Watchtower
THE GREAT MULTITUDE IS CLEARLY IN HEAVEN.THEY ARE BEFORE THE THRONE BEFORE THE LAMB AND THEY SERVE HIM DAY AND NIGHT IN HIS TEMPLE
THE THRONE IS IN HEAVEN
Revelation 4:2;11:19; 14:17
THEY SERVE IN HIS TEMPLE-THE TEMPLE IS IN HEAVEN Rev 11:19; 14:15, 17
THE GREAT MULTITUDE IS CLEARLY SAID TO BE HEAVEN
Revelation 19:1, 6
Again the Watchtower ignores the authority of the Bible and posits the doctrine of menMuch of Revelation is symbolic. Only Jesus' 1 religion knows its truth.
Um the text speaks of what is transpiring on earth and Israelites
Revelation 7:1–8 (NASB 2020) — 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, holding the seal of the living God; and he called out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
The 144, 000 are on earth. They are Isrealites
dwight92070
Active Member
Never heard of him or seen any proof he is a greek scholar
The fact is an anarthrous Theos ( the Greek Theos without an article) cannot be consistently translated a god throughout scripture and in places is simply translated God
So it is theology not greek which is driving his claim
1822 Abner Kneeland a Greek scholar translated the NT from the same Greek Lexicons all use. He compared Greek to English side by side to prove to the world a god is correct. Of course rejected by those whom truth exposes.
All it takes is a simple "look-up" of Abner Kneeland on Wikipedia to see that he was all over the map. First he was a lay preacher in a Baptist church. Soon he converted to Universalism. Later in life he rejected revealed religion and Universalism's Christian God. So he left the Universalism church and started divisions in other churches that he "administered". He made HIS OWN translation of the New Testament. Can you imagine what John 1:1 looks like in Kneeland's "translation"? Has anyone ever heard of the Kneeland New Testament? No? Neither have I. He began to stray far from Christianity and became a "free-thinker" and a "pantheist". He was charged with blasphemy in a Massachusetts court and sentenced to sixty days in jail. The judge called him a "cantankerous and inflexible heretic". After getting out of jail, he started a small utopian community in Iowa, which failed shortly after his death in 1844. So THIS is the "Greek scholar" that Keiw 1 relies on???
Pathetic but that is what the Watchtower feeds those who listen to itAll it takes is a simple "look-up" of Abner Kneeland on Wikipedia to see that he was all over the map. First he was a lay preacher in a Baptist church. Soon he converted to Universalism. Later in life he rejected revealed religion and Universalism's Christian God. So he left the Universalism church and started divisions in other churches that he "administered". He made HIS OWN translation of the New Testament. Can you imagine what John 1:1 looks like in Kneeland's "translation"? Has anyone ever heard of the Kneeland New Testament? No? Neither have I. He began to stray far from Christianity and became a "free-thinker" and a "pantheist". He was charged with blasphemy in a Massachusetts court and sentenced to sixty days in jail. The judge called him a "cantankerous and inflexible heretic". After getting out of jail, he started a small utopian community in Iowa, which failed shortly after his death in 1844. So THIS is the "Greek scholar" that Keiw 1 relies on???
Your darkness has you. Gods word explains itself.Sorry you cannot use Rev 21 to interpret Rev 7
You have been deceived by the Watchtower
THE GREAT MULTITUDE IS CLEARLY IN HEAVEN.THEY ARE BEFORE THE THRONE BEFORE THE LAMB AND THEY SERVE HIM DAY AND NIGHT IN HIS TEMPLE
THE THRONE IS IN HEAVEN
Revelation 4:2;11:19; 14:17
THEY SERVE IN HIS TEMPLE-THE TEMPLE IS IN HEAVEN Rev 11:19; 14:15, 17
THE GREAT MULTITUDE IS CLEARLY SAID TO BE HEAVEN
Revelation 19:1, 6
A small remnant of the liitle flock are on earth today, those are the ones who will be changed in the twinkling of an eye during the tribulation.Again the Watchtower ignores the authority of the Bible and posits the doctrine of men
Um the text speaks of what is transpiring on earth and Israelites
Revelation 7:1–8 (NASB 2020) — 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, holding the seal of the living God; and he called out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
The 144, 000 are on earth. They are Isrealites
Yes he denied the trinity. Only one who is a Greek scholar can compare Greek to English side by side in a NT translation from Greek lexicons. Those same blind guides call my religion a cult, when Gods word shows 100% they are the cult in his view.All it takes is a simple "look-up" of Abner Kneeland on Wikipedia to see that he was all over the map. First he was a lay preacher in a Baptist church. Soon he converted to Universalism. Later in life he rejected revealed religion and Universalism's Christian God. So he left the Universalism church and started divisions in other churches that he "administered". He made HIS OWN translation of the New Testament. Can you imagine what John 1:1 looks like in Kneeland's "translation"? Has anyone ever heard of the Kneeland New Testament? No? Neither have I. He began to stray far from Christianity and became a "free-thinker" and a "pantheist". He was charged with blasphemy in a Massachusetts court and sentenced to sixty days in jail. The judge called him a "cantankerous and inflexible heretic". After getting out of jail, he started a small utopian community in Iowa, which failed shortly after his death in 1844. So THIS is the "Greek scholar" that Keiw 1 relies on???
So why is it you cannot address the scriptural evidence?Your darkness has you. Gods word explains itself.
THE THRONE IS IN HEAVEN
Revelation 4:2;11:19; 14:17
THEY SERVE IN HIS TEMPLE-THE TEMPLE IS IN HEAVEN Rev 11:19; 14:15, 17
THE GREAT MULTITUDE IS CLEARLY SAID TO BE HEAVEN
Revelation 19:1, 6
Once again the watchtower has deceived you
