The Doctrine of a "Fall" is a Lie

[Keiw1]

Salvation does not rest on Israel and what it believes or doesn't believe as the New Covenant described by Jeremiah declares. The salvation that is of the LORD is a salvation that is of the Jews. The New Covenant merely describes God saving Israel based upon the pleasure of His good pleasure and based upon the covenants He made spread out through the centuries. Israel did not "reject" Jesus and there is nothing in the New Covenant writings that state this. The people merely did not react to halt the acts of the religious leaders as they sought Rome's permission to condemn this innocent man on a Roman cross. There may have been thousands of Jews in Israel at that time to observe the Passover, there were millions of Jews and mixed heritage Jews who lived in Gentile land who never knew of Jesus arrival nor of His death on a Roman cross, so by definition they were never in a position to "accept" or "reject" Jesus as presented by the LORD. The bottom line is that God saves through covenant and every Hebrew and mixed heritage Hebrew ever born was atoned by Jesus Christ, who as High Priest before God, offered Himself in their stead to atone their sins.
Belief or unbelief, acceptance or rejection do not figure in the LORD'S salvation as all sins of Israel's past, present, and future were atoned by Jesus Christ that day. He did not die to make salvation possible, instead, when He died, He actually saved His people that day. He declared the plan for Israel's salvation that day as "Finished."

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26–27.

Belief or unbelief, accepting or rejecting have nothing to do with Israel's salvation for all sins have been atoned by Jesus Christ the day He died on His cross.
His resurrection from the dead proves God's salvation of Israel completed.

And Jesus said--Your house is abandoned to you(23:38) unless they do Matt 23:39--The unwise refuse to believe Jesus.

 

[e v e]

breakdown:

The Story

• God creates Adam and Eve, placing them in a perfect paradise, the Garden of Eden.
• God gives them one prohibition: they cannot eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

that tree is where we are now.

• A serpent tempts Eve, suggesting that eating from the tree will make them like God, knowing good and evil.

adam was her covering. did not protect her. Adam betrayed God.

• Eve eats the fruit and then gives some to Adam, who also eats it.

adam causes the fall

• Immediately, they realize they are naked and become ashamed, recognizing their vulnerability and imperfection.

they lose their eden nature and covering, entering the tree of the enemy - a realm.

• God expels them from the Garden, changing their relationship with Him and the world around them.

nope.

Interpretations and Significance

• Original Sin: Many Christians believe the Fall introduced sin into the world, corrupting human nature. This concept is known as Original Sin, suggesting all humans are born with a tendency towards sin.

this current earth = sin

• Loss of Innocence: The Fall represents the loss of humanity's original state of innocence and harmony with God. It marks the beginning of suffering, pain, and death in the world.

this world is not the world meant, for His souls left eden. we entered the evil realm = suffering

• Free Will: The story highlights the importance of free will. Adam and Eve had the choice to obey or disobey God, and their decision had significant consequences.

not 100% since it was adam did the major crime.

• Separation from God: The Fall resulted in a separation between humanity and God. This separation is seen as the root of human suffering and the need for redemption.

soon it will be undone.

 

[jeremiah1five]

And Jesus said--Your house is abandoned to you(23:38) unless they do Matt 23:39--The unwise refuse to believe Jesus.

The KJV is a better translation:

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:37–39.

34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Luke 13:34–35.

Notice Jesus brings an accusation against the religious leaders and the people in Luke 19:34, and Matthew 23:37.
In both verses He says, "Your house" not the Lord's house.

BUT

The people said that very thing later on in His triumphal entrance into Jerusalem:

37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: Luke 19:36–38.

Salvation is not a "Do" (works) religion where man is concerned. The Hebrew people cannot earn their way to God when it is God who is performing the "works" to save His covenant people. But it is when we learn that God is the One who instructed sacrificial system that would lead to God sending His Son to die under that sacrificial system for the people, so, yes, when applied to God, it is a "works" salvation because after the first Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-2 when God rested from creating He went right back to work on the Plan of Man.
And has been working ever since.

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. John 5:17.

After many centuries of working towards the salvation of God's covenant people it was Miller Time.

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30.

Now the Hebrew people received salvation as the result of God working from the beginning towards that goal. So, yes, salvation is a "works" salvation when applied to God, but not to man. They are passive in their salvation. This is why Jonah said, "Salvation is OF THE LORD!" (Jonah 2:9.)

Let that sink in.

The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17.

Mission Accomplished.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Holy Spirit isnt going to lead anyone to put confidence in the flesh for salvation, Ethnicity is of the flesh as Paul pointed out Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

So, I supposed the Hebrew people since Abraham had no right to God's covenant with him and his biological seed?

You quote Saul declaring his flesh in Abraham as lying?

That's what you are saying. Saul says it right there in the passages you quote.

Turnabout is fair play.

Gotcha!

 

[brightfame52]

So, I supposed the Hebrew people since Abraham had no right to God's covenant with him and his biological seed?

You quote Saul declaring his flesh in Abraham as lying?

That's what you are saying. Saul says it right there in the passages you quote.

Turnabout is fair play.

Gotcha!

You putting confidence in the flesh

 

[Keiw1]

The KJV is a better translation:

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:37–39.

34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Luke 13:34–35.

Notice Jesus brings an accusation against the religious leaders and the people in Luke 19:34, and Matthew 23:37.
In both verses He says, "Your house" not the Lord's house.

BUT

The people said that very thing later on in His triumphal entrance into Jerusalem:

37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: Luke 19:36–38.

Salvation is not a "Do" (works) religion where man is concerned. The Hebrew people cannot earn their way to God when it is God who is performing the "works" to save His covenant people. But it is when we learn that God is the One who instructed sacrificial system that would lead to God sending His Son to die under that sacrificial system for the people, so, yes, when applied to God, it is a "works" salvation because after the first Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-2 when God rested from creating He went right back to work on the Plan of Man.
And has been working ever since.

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. John 5:17.

After many centuries of working towards the salvation of God's covenant people it was Miller Time.

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30.

Now the Hebrew people received salvation as the result of God working from the beginning towards that goal. So, yes, salvation is a "works" salvation when applied to God, but not to man. They are passive in their salvation. This is why Jonah said, "Salvation is OF THE LORD!" (Jonah 2:9.)

Let that sink in.

The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17.

Mission Accomplished.

your house= the religion

 

[jeremiah1five]

You putting confidence in the flesh

Yes, I am. Just as Jesus does.
He is proud of being a Lion from the Tribe of Judah.

 

[jeremiah1five]

your house= the religion

Temple. Religion. You can live in a Temple, but you can't live in a religion.
He means Temple.
Why is it so hard to just say I was right? So dishonest.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, I am. Just as Jesus does.
He is proud of being a Lion from the Tribe of Judah.

Confidence in the flesh is Idolatry

 

[Keiw1]

Temple. Religion. You can live in a Temple, but you can't live in a religion.
He means Temple.
Why is it so hard to just say I was right? So dishonest.

Jesus told the Israelite spiritual leaders, they were misleading men to not enter Gods kingdom. Matt 23:13= no longer belonging to God. To mislead men to not enter Gods kingdom= the opposite of Jesus' Fathers will.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Confidence in the flesh is Idolatry

There is no idolatry in knowing you are the seed of Abraham and heir to his promises. Even Saul states his pride at being Hebrew. But not just any Hebrew. He was a Hebrew or Hebrews! A Pharisee who was greater than many "among his equals." From the tribe of Benjamin. Circumcised the eighth day according to Scripture. What a man!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus told the Israelite spiritual leaders, they were misleading men to not enter Gods kingdom. Matt 23:13= no longer belonging to God. To mislead men to not enter Gods kingdom= the opposite of Jesus' Fathers will.

They may have influenced many Jews in Jerusalem. But there were thousands of synagogues in the Roman Empire that the religious leaders had no influence upon. These Jews gathered on the Sabbath, read Scripture, talked about Scripture, and worshiped God according to Scripture. There was synagogues in Antioch, Philippi, Corinth, Rome, in Thessalonica, everywhere throughout the Roman Empire and they knew nothing about the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. And they were in covenant with God. This is what assured their salvation. And God through covenant saved them all.
This was God's doing, and it was marvelous in our eyes.

 

[brightfame52]

There is no idolatry in knowing you are the seed of Abraham

I said confidence in the flesh is idolatry you base salvation on the flesh

 

[jeremiah1five]

I said confidence in the flesh is idolatry you base salvation on the flesh

That is the basis of the Abrahamic Covenant. It was a covenant between Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed.
It was a biological covenant re-established with the Mosaic Covenant between God and the children of Abraham (Hebrew) Isaac (Hebrew) and Jacob (Hebrew.)
Every generation of Hebrews had confidence in their flesh.
It continues to the New Covenant between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah - all twelve Hebrew tribes represented.
There are NO GENTILES included in these three Hebrew covenants.
Word.

 

[brightfame52]

That is the basis of the Abrahamic Covenant. It was a covenant between Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed.
It was a biological covenant re-established with the Mosaic Covenant between God and the children of Abraham (Hebrew) Isaac (Hebrew) and Jacob (Hebrew.)
Every generation of Hebrews had confidence in their flesh.
It continues to the New Covenant between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah - all twelve Hebrew tribes represented.
There are NO GENTILES included in these three Hebrew covenants.
Word.

More confidence in the flesh

 

[jeremiah1five]

More confidence in the flesh

That's exactly what it was.

 

[brightfame52]

That's exactly what it was.

Confidence in the flesh is idolatry

 

[jeremiah1five]

Confidence in the flesh is idolatry

Then the Hebrew people are idolaters.

But all their sins past, present, and future, have been paid for by their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

That is the result of the New Covenant between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour (member of another tribe living next to another tribe), and every man his brother (member of the same tribe), saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

God is good.

Hallelu-JAH!

 

[Keiw1]

They may have influenced many Jews in Jerusalem. But there were thousands of synagogues in the Roman Empire that the religious leaders had no influence upon. These Jews gathered on the Sabbath, read Scripture, talked about Scripture, and worshiped God according to Scripture. There was synagogues in Antioch, Philippi, Corinth, Rome, in Thessalonica, everywhere throughout the Roman Empire and they knew nothing about the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. And they were in covenant with God. This is what assured their salvation. And God through covenant saved them all.
This was God's doing, and it was marvelous in our eyes.

NONE who reject Jesus has Gods approval.