civic
Active Member
No he is talking about himself being an unconverted Jew under the law.
The Discovery of Hidden Mystery Against OSAS
- Thread starter charismaticlady
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charismaticlady
Active Member
You're kidding. The Pharisees and Sadducees lived for the law. It was all they thought about day and night. That is what Paul used to be, when he still was a slave to sin. They used to be utterably delighted to walk around like peacocks!
Have you ever read more than Romans 7:14-25? Read Romans 7:5-6. That is someone who has been born again, unlike the old testament 14-25. Romans 8 is the new covenant which frees us from Romans 7:14-25. Don't get hung up on the "I." That is a Hebrew style of writing. "Me" is the same style and is still seeming a present tense to a westerner like us. Notice in 8:2 Paul uses "me" that is freed from both sin and the law of the "I" who was a slave to sin of 7:14-25.
charismaticlady
Active Member
No, you've got it backwards. Anyone who sins is not close to being saved. 1 John 3. Read the chapter.
Read 1 John 2:4. It explains 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10, the dark verses vs. those of the light from 5-10. 5, 7 and 9 are the light verses. They are a list of opposites.
1 John 2:4
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
cc: @Diserner
Waylon
Active Member
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free.
1 Corinthians 12:13
Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself. Why? Faithful or not, every person who has at any time had saving faith is a permanent part of the body of Christ. Whatever action Christ takes against a believer, He takes against Himself, for each believer is a part of His body.
True children of God cannot become something other than children, even when disobedient and weak. Christ’s faithfulness to Christians is not contingent on their faithfulness to Him.
1 Corinthians 12:13
Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself. Why? Faithful or not, every person who has at any time had saving faith is a permanent part of the body of Christ. Whatever action Christ takes against a believer, He takes against Himself, for each believer is a part of His body.
True children of God cannot become something other than children, even when disobedient and weak. Christ’s faithfulness to Christians is not contingent on their faithfulness to Him.
TibiasDad
Active Member
TibiasDad
Active Member
An unbelieving Christian rides unicorns to church. There is no such thing as an unbelieving Christian or unicorns.
All Christians are actively believing in Christ.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
In Romans 6 and 8 Paul is set free from the power of sin, and is able to fulfill “all the righteous requirements of the law”, but in Rom 7, he is completely bound by sin and unable to stop sinning.
Also, an unsaved Jew can delight in the law, but that will not save them.
Doug
Waylon
Active Member
An "unbelieving Christian" often refers to a person who identifies as a Christian but struggles with their faith, doubts their beliefs, or is in a relationship with someone who does not share their faith.
Here is one
Darren Wilson, a Judson University professor and former “unbelieving Christian” who aims his film at Christians who do not think the charismata are real, or who believe they ended in the apostolic era.
Mark Moring, “Down Syndrome Meets God,” Christianity Today
TibiasDad
Active Member
Well, I can only say that in my 65 years in the church, 44 of those in ministry and schooling, I have never heard of anyone being called “an unbelieving Christian” because they are struggling with their faith, doubts their beliefs and especially not one “in a relationship with someone who does not share their faith.”
Struggling with and doubting one’s faith is the erasure of faith. Now I do not think that struggling with understanding biblical principles, especially in the early stages of faith, is a lack of faith, only maturity; though it can become a discouragement and lead to an abdication of faith. But at that point faith has died and “without faith no man can please God”.
Believing and acting upon that belief is the linchpin of being a Christian. You either believe that Christ has died for your sins or you don’t. You hold to that grace or you don’t. There is no halfway! If you’re in, you will grow stronger- if you persevere.
Doug
John 10 and John 17 are written in two different contexts. Are you saying in John 10 that only the apostles are sheep?
atpollard
Active Member
I guess John was only talking about "the Apostles".
Waylon
Active Member
Here is what I'm talking about. You can try to walk away from Jesus once saved, but He will never leave you nor forsake you.
In doing research for The Case For Faith, Strobel sought out and was granted an interview with Templeton in his penthouse apartment on the twenty-fifth floor of a high rise in Toronto, Canada.
During the course of their conversation, Charles Templeton vigorously defended his disavowal of God and his rejection of the Bible. There was no apparent chink in the armor of his calloused soul.
Then, Strobel directed the old gentleman’s attention to Christ. How would he now assess Jesus at this stage of his life?
Strobel says that, amazingly, Templeton’s “body language softened.” His voice took on a “melancholy and reflective tone.” And then, incredibly, he said:
Mind you, he’s talking about the same Teacher who claimed to have existed eternally before Abraham was born (Jn. 8:58), who asserted his oneness of nature with God, the Father (Jn. 10:30), and who allowed men to honor him as “Lord and God” (Jn. 20:28).
If these things were not true, that would make Jesus of Nazareth the most preposterous and outrageous con-man who ever walked the earth. Thousands happily went to their deaths, in the most horrible ways imaginable, confessing his deity.
But the interview continued.
Strobel quietly commented: “You sound like you really care about him.”
“Well, yes,” Templeton acknowledged, “he’s the most important thing in my life.”
He stammered: “I . . . I . . . I adore him . . . Everything good I know, everything decent I know, everything pure I know, I learned from Jesus.”
Strobel was stunned. He listened in shock. He says that Templeton’s voice began to crack. He then said, “I . . . miss . . . him!”
With that, the old man burst into tears. With a shaking frame, he wept bitterly.
Finally, Templeton gained control of his emotions and wiped away the tears.
“Enough of that,” he said, as he waved his hand as if to suggest that there would be no more questions along that line.
A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ
This article discusses author Lee Stroble's interview with skeptic, Charles Templeton.
christiancourier.com
civic
Active Member
I’m reminded of a Willie Nelson song: you were always on my mind.Here is what I'm talking about. You can try to walk away from Jesus once saved, but He will never leave you nor forsake you.
In doing research for The Case For Faith, Strobel sought out and was granted an interview with Templeton in his penthouse apartment on the twenty-fifth floor of a high rise in Toronto, Canada.
During the course of their conversation, Charles Templeton vigorously defended his disavowal of God and his rejection of the Bible. There was no apparent chink in the armor of his calloused soul.
Then, Strobel directed the old gentleman’s attention to Christ. How would he now assess Jesus at this stage of his life?
Strobel says that, amazingly, Templeton’s “body language softened.” His voice took on a “melancholy and reflective tone.” And then, incredibly, he said:
Mind you, he’s talking about the same Teacher who claimed to have existed eternally before Abraham was born (Jn. 8:58), who asserted his oneness of nature with God, the Father (Jn. 10:30), and who allowed men to honor him as “Lord and God” (Jn. 20:28).
If these things were not true, that would make Jesus of Nazareth the most preposterous and outrageous con-man who ever walked the earth. Thousands happily went to their deaths, in the most horrible ways imaginable, confessing his deity.
But the interview continued.
Strobel quietly commented: “You sound like you really care about him.”
“Well, yes,” Templeton acknowledged, “he’s the most important thing in my life.”
He stammered: “I . . . I . . . I adore him . . . Everything good I know, everything decent I know, everything pure I know, I learned from Jesus.”
Strobel was stunned. He listened in shock. He says that Templeton’s voice began to crack. He then said, “I . . . miss . . . him!”
With that, the old man burst into tears. With a shaking frame, he wept bitterly.
Finally, Templeton gained control of his emotions and wiped away the tears.
“Enough of that,” he said, as he waved his hand as if to suggest that there would be no more questions along that line.
A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ
This article discusses author Lee Stroble's interview with skeptic, Charles Templeton.
I always tell our men’s group Jesus is always on my mind. I cannot not think of Him no matter how hard I could try. I owe Him my everything and I think about His grace all the time. Call it an “ obsession “.
There was another secular song called addicted to love. Well I’m addicted to Jesus.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Yes, I’ve read Strobel, but if you are saying Templeton was saved, despite his denial of belief in God, and thereby Christ as God in flesh, then I must disagree in the most profound sense of disagreement. One cannot display contrary lifestyle choices to something that is inherently true to their nature. Fish do not build nests in trees!Here is what I'm talking about. You can try to walk away from Jesus once saved, but He will never leave you nor forsake you.
In doing research for The Case For Faith, Strobel sought out and was granted an interview with Templeton in his penthouse apartment on the twenty-fifth floor of a high rise in Toronto, Canada.
During the course of their conversation, Charles Templeton vigorously defended his disavowal of God and his rejection of the Bible. There was no apparent chink in the armor of his calloused soul.
Then, Strobel directed the old gentleman’s attention to Christ. How would he now assess Jesus at this stage of his life?
Strobel says that, amazingly, Templeton’s “body language softened.” His voice took on a “melancholy and reflective tone.” And then, incredibly, he said:
Mind you, he’s talking about the same Teacher who claimed to have existed eternally before Abraham was born (Jn. 8:58), who asserted his oneness of nature with God, the Father (Jn. 10:30), and who allowed men to honor him as “Lord and God” (Jn. 20:28).
If these things were not true, that would make Jesus of Nazareth the most preposterous and outrageous con-man who ever walked the earth. Thousands happily went to their deaths, in the most horrible ways imaginable, confessing his deity.
But the interview continued.
Strobel quietly commented: “You sound like you really care about him.”
“Well, yes,” Templeton acknowledged, “he’s the most important thing in my life.”
He stammered: “I . . . I . . . I adore him . . . Everything good I know, everything decent I know, everything pure I know, I learned from Jesus.”
Strobel was stunned. He listened in shock. He says that Templeton’s voice began to crack. He then said, “I . . . miss . . . him!”
With that, the old man burst into tears. With a shaking frame, he wept bitterly.
Finally, Templeton gained control of his emotions and wiped away the tears.
“Enough of that,” he said, as he waved his hand as if to suggest that there would be no more questions along that line.
A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ
This article discusses author Lee Stroble's interview with skeptic, Charles Templeton.
Templeton rejected his faith in Christ outright and acted accordingly. In is old age, he missed what he once knew, but could not believe that he was wrong in his decision to abandon his faith. In this sense, he was no different than the Jew who thinks Jesus was a good man, but not the Messiah!
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
civic
Active Member
I'll have to check it out
Waylon
Active Member
The part I like is when Templeton tells Strobel that he loves Jesus. And who knows what Templeton did after the interview. I do know what Paul tells us in Romans:
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. Romans 14:4
I think Templeton may have came to his senses like the in the Parable of the Prodigal Son.
atpollard
Active Member
Such matters make me grateful to NOT BE GOD ... I would not want to be placed in charge of making such decisions. I happily yield such "weighty" matters to HIM and trust whatever God chooses will be the Right choice. [There are a lot of "Templetons" in my family tree that I am happy to trust to God to make the final decisions.]
Waylon
Active Member
Sometimes people have a lack of assurance in their salvation because they're not able to point to a definitive conversion experience, perhaps because they grew up in a believing family and there was never a time when they didn't profess faith in Christ.
We all fall short at times in our walk with Jesus and I think that may led some to doubt their salvation.
Many Christians doubt their salvation at some point, and it is a common experience. This doubt can stem from a variety of factors, including feelings of sinfulness, a misunderstanding of scripture, lack of spiritual maturity, or external pressures. While occasional doubt is not necessarily indicative of being unsaved, some sources suggest persistent, unresolvable doubt may be a sign of deeper spiritual issues or a need for a clearer understanding of faith.
We all fall short at times in our walk with Jesus and I think that may led some to doubt their salvation.
Many Christians doubt their salvation at some point, and it is a common experience. This doubt can stem from a variety of factors, including feelings of sinfulness, a misunderstanding of scripture, lack of spiritual maturity, or external pressures. While occasional doubt is not necessarily indicative of being unsaved, some sources suggest persistent, unresolvable doubt may be a sign of deeper spiritual issues or a need for a clearer understanding of faith.
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