The Bahá'í Faith: Teachings, History, and Practices

[mikesw]

Thanks for the repectful question, Johann.
The answer is: Since it is the most recent, it corresponds to the needs of this era.
Each revelation has been the most recent and complete expression of God’s will for its age and particular purpose.
For example, Jesus promised a Second Comforter who would explain His Message so that it could be understood better. Otherwise a Second Comforter was not necessary. Thin about that: it would have sufficed to record the words and works of Christ.

The problem is that God has not identified that there would be some later messengers. God's work was complete in Christ and could not be made more complete by anyone except Christ intervening.

 

[mikesw]

Remember that for Jews, the New Testament is not compatible with the Tanakh. They would ask you, synergy, to choose one.
For Muslims, I need to choose between honoring the Quran and the Baha’i Sacred Writings. Thousands of bahai’s have been arrested and killed in Persia for that reason.

I choose to honor the Tanakh, the New Testament, the Quran and the Baha’i Writings. Each in its context. All in my heart.

The Jews largely rejected Christ. Their willful rejection of Christ and the New Testament is in total rejection of the Old Testament prophecies. Christians accept the Old Testament prophecies as inherent to the message of Christ. Anything cut short of NT teaching or cutting off the New Testament is denying of what God has done and thus not countable as scripture. Any denial of the deity of Christ also is complete disregard of the OT and NT. That rejection hardly builds a foundation for the Quran or the Bahai writings.
It is also worse that you turned from Jewish heritage into religions not of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. A big purpose of the Israel history was to identify clearly the origin of the single Messiah and Savior of the world. It is no wonder God had so much trouble with the people he chose for this role.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Let's look at some of the "beauty" and "veracity" of the Quranic message in particular:

Surah 2:65 "And indeed you [Jews] knew those among you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. We [Allah] said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."

Surah 2:96 "And verily, you will find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who ascribe partners to Allah [polytheists].

Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."

Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …"

Surah 3:10 "Verily, those who disbelieve, neither their properties nor their offspring will avail them whatsoever against Allah; and it is they who will be fuel of the Fire."

Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …" Terrorism.

Surah 4:89 "They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected, and thus that you all become equal. So take not friends from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah. But if they turn back (from Islam) take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither friends nor helpers from them."

Surah 5:32 "...We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men..."

My question: So what is the mischief that justifies a Muslim State or Muslim person killing another human being in Surah 5:32? Could it be challenging the Quran as I'm doing now? Is it one bad word against the Quran? Tell me what's so divine about Surah 5:32 promoting the killing of a person who exercises free speech? Surah 5:32 is vigilantism if it’s for a person and pure Fascism if it’s for a State.

Surah 5:33 "The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger5 and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter."

Surah 5:60 "Say (O Muhammad) to the people of the Scripture: 'Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those Jews who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom some He transformed into monkeys and swine, those who worshipped false deities [Hindus/Buddhists]; such are worse in rank and far more astray from the Right Path.'"

Surah 7:166 "So when they [the Jews] exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: 'Be you monkeys despised and rejected.'"

Surah 8:12. Your Lord inspired the angels: “I am with you, so support those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. So strike above the necks, and strike off every fingertip of theirs.”

Surah 8:39 "And fight them [the unbelievers] until there is no more disbelief (fitnah), and the religion will all be for Allah Alone [the translation adds: 'in the whole of the world'.]"

Surah 9:83. Have you not considered how We dispatch the devils against the disbelievers, exciting them with incitement?

Surah 9:123 O you who believe! fight the unbelievers who surround you, and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Surah 33:50. "O Prophet! We have permitted to you your wives to whom you have given their dowries, and those you already have, as granted to you by God, and the daughters of your paternal uncle, and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncle, and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you, and a believing woman who has offered herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desires to marry her, exclusively for you, and not for the believers. We know what We have ordained for them regarding their wives and those their right-hands possess. This is to spare you any difficulty. God is Forgiving and Merciful." (This is Polygamy)

Surah 47:4 "So, when you meet [in Jihad] those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly on them. Thereafter is the time either for generosity or ransom. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam] ... But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."

The Baha’i Faith does not consider the Holy Quran to teach violence against those who think differently.
We don’t think that the ayahs you’ve quoted incite violence to people from other faiths.
God says in the Quran: “The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve” (18:29)

Most modern Muslims reject clearly and loudly any form of violence against people from other religions.
Sadly, some do exert violence and Bahai’s themselves have got arrested and killed by them.

Also sadly, Some Christians, even in this Forum, believe that it is just and good that people from other religions are tortured forever in hell.

 

[synergy]

Remember that for Jews, the New Testament is not compatible with the Tanakh. They would ask you, synergy, to choose one.
For Muslims, I need to choose between honoring the Quran and the Baha’i Sacred Writings. Thousands of bahai’s have been arrested and killed in Persia for that reason.

I choose to honor the Tanakh, the New Testament, the Quran and the Baha’i Writings. Each in its context. All in my heart.

You are seriously willing to defend the racist, criminal, and polygamist Quranic verses listed below in this day and age????

Show me any verse within the OT and the NT and I'll show you how it's defendable or abrogated in this day and age.

Surah 2:65 "And indeed you [Jews] knew those among you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. We [Allah] said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."

Surah 2:96 "And verily, you will find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who ascribe partners to Allah [polytheists].

Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."

Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …"

Surah 3:10 "Verily, those who disbelieve, neither their properties nor their offspring will avail them whatsoever against Allah; and it is they who will be fuel of the Fire."

Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …" Terrorism.

Surah 4:89 "They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected, and thus that you all become equal. So take not friends from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah. But if they turn back (from Islam) take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither friends nor helpers from them."

Surah 5:32 "...We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men..."

My question: So what is the mischief that justifies a Muslim State or Muslim person killing another human being in Surah 5:32? Could it be challenging the Quran as I'm doing now? Is it one bad word against the Quran? Tell me what's so divine about Surah 5:32 promoting the killing of a person who exercises free speech? Surah 5:32 is vigilantism if it’s for a person and pure Fascism if it’s for a State.

Surah 5:33 "The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger5 and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter."

Surah 5:60 "Say (O Muhammad) to the people of the Scripture: 'Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those Jews who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom some He transformed into monkeys and swine, those who worshipped false deities [Hindus/Buddhists]; such are worse in rank and far more astray from the Right Path.'"

Surah 7:166 "So when they [the Jews] exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: 'Be you monkeys despised and rejected.'"

Surah 8:12. Your Lord inspired the angels: “I am with you, so support those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. So strike above the necks, and strike off every fingertip of theirs.”

Surah 8:39 "And fight them [the unbelievers] until there is no more disbelief (fitnah), and the religion will all be for Allah Alone [the translation adds: 'in the whole of the world'.]"

Surah 9:83. Have you not considered how We dispatch the devils against the disbelievers, exciting them with incitement?

Surah 9:123 O you who believe! fight the unbelievers who surround you, and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Surah 33:50. "O Prophet! We have permitted to you your wives to whom you have given their dowries, and those you already have, as granted to you by God, and the daughters of your paternal uncle, and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncle, and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you, and a believing woman who has offered herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desires to marry her, exclusively for you, and not for the believers. We know what We have ordained for them regarding their wives and those their right-hands possess. This is to spare you any difficulty. God is Forgiving and Merciful." (This is Polygamy)

Surah 47:4 "So, when you meet [in Jihad] those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly on them. Thereafter is the time either for generosity or ransom. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam] ... But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."

 

[mikesw]

The Baha’i Faith does not consider the Holy Quran to teach violence against those who think differently.
We don’t think that the ayahs you’ve quoted incite violence to people from other faiths.
God says in the Quran: “The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve” (18:29)

Most modern Muslims reject clearly and loudly any form of violence against people from other religions.
Sadly, some do exert violence and Bahai’s themselves have got arrested and killed by them.

Also sadly, Some Christians, even in this Forum, believe that it is just and good that people from other religions are tortured forever in hell.

There are not just and good people apart from Christ.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I understand that Bahá'ís have additional scriptures, but from a Christian perspective, the Bible is seen as the primary, complete revelation of God, especially with the New Testament establishing Jesus as the final and complete Word (Hebrews 1:1-2). The Bible doesn’t present prophecy about future 'Messengers' beyond Jesus, who is considered the fulfillment of the Old Testament. While Bahá'í writings interpret continuity through 'progressive revelation,' Christians would see this as diverging from the finality of Jesus' teachings.

I am the Bread of Life
Greek: Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς (John 6:35, 48, 51)
Jesus claims to be the true sustenance of life, satisfying spiritual hunger and offering eternal life. Bread, a staple in ancient diets, symbolizes this sustaining spiritual nourishment.

2. I am the Light of the World
Greek: Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου (John 8:12)
Here, Jesus declares that He illuminates the truth in a world darkened by sin, guiding humanity out of spiritual darkness and offering the "light of life."

3. I am the Door of the Sheep
Greek: Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ θύρα τῶν προβάτων (John 10:7, 9)
In a metaphor of protection, Jesus positions Himself as the entry point to salvation and security, allowing only those who enter through Him to find true spiritual safety.

4. I am the Good Shepherd
Greek: Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ποιμὴν ὁ καλός (John 10:11, 14)
Jesus as the Good Shepherd conveys His care, guidance, and ultimate sacrifice for His “sheep” (believers), distinguishing Himself from false leaders.

5. I am the Resurrection and the Life
Greek: Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ἀνάστασις καὶ ἡ ζωή (John 11:25)
At Lazarus’s tomb, Jesus declares His authority over life and death, emphasizing that those who believe in Him will experience eternal life even beyond physical death.

6. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life
Greek: Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή (John 14:6)
Jesus asserts His exclusive role as the path to God, embodying divine truth and the source of eternal life, essential for salvation.

7. I am the True Vine
Greek: Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ἄμπελος ἡ ἀληθινή (John 15:1, 5)
Jesus describes Himself as the source of spiritual life and growth for His followers, with God as the vinedresser, symbolizing the need for believers to remain connected to Him for fruitful lives.

I take the doctrines as recorded in Scriptures only-God-breathed D'varim to the whole world @Pancho Frijoles

Since you don't really rely on the Scriptures as your sole, primary source it sounds like this, progressive revelation.

The four traditional levels of Jewish scriptural interpretation are known as PaRDeS, an acronym for Peshat, Remez, Derash, and Sod:

Peshat (פְּשָׁט) – The straightforward, literal meaning of the text, focused on basic grammar and context without added symbolism.

Remez (רֶמֶז) – The allegorical or hinted meaning, where subtle clues point to deeper truths or teachings within the text.

Derash (דְּרָשׁ) – The homiletic or comparative meaning, often drawn out through interpretive methods like midrash, using stories or moral teachings to expand on the text’s themes.

Sod (סוֹד) – The mystical or esoteric meaning, delving into hidden, spiritual dimensions, often associated with Kabbalah and deeper metaphysical interpretations.

Together, PaRDeS provides a comprehensive approach to interpreting sacred texts, enabling multi-layered insights.

I pray you see the Light and not the messengers brother.

J.

I appreciate your insights in this great post of yours.
I will reply with the attention and care it deserves. I will rest now, my brother. God bless you and your family tonight.

 

[Johann]

Thanks for the repectful question, Johann.
The answer is: Since it is the most recent, it corresponds to the needs of this era.
Each revelation has been the most recent and complete expression of God’s will for its age and particular purpose.
For example, Jesus promised a Second Comforter who would explain His Message so that it could be understood better. Otherwise a Second Comforter was not necessary. Thin about that: it would have sufficed to record the words and works of Christ.

You’re showing the fruit of the Spirit, @Pancho Frijoles.
Christian forums can be challenging places, often leaving a lasting, negative impact on someone who’s continually under scrutiny, interrogation, and critique.

No further questions from me brother-you seem to be a peaceful person.

Johann.

 

[Johann]

I appreciate your insights in this great post of yours.
I will reply with the attention and care it deserves. I will rest now, my brother. God bless you and your family tonight.

Shalom lecha u'lemishpachtecha, achi.

Peace to you and family brother.

Johann.

 

[e v e]

what an awful belief system

 

[David Koberstein]

Please post the passage where Jesus calls Peter Satan. Then re-quote my post.
Finally, please compare what Peter expressed with what I expressed. Can you share your conclusion of that comparison?

The Baha’i Faith does not believe that God requires any blood atonement to forgive sins.

Those verses exist.
I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead.
I believe God raised you from the dead, and made you sit in heavenly places with him.

If Baha'i Faith does not believe that God requires any blood atonement to forgive sins Then YOU will not be in heaven and will die and go to Hell. The Bible says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. YOU make Adonai/God a liar and the truth is not in you, and that makes YOU a pagan.
Shalom

 

[Johann]

If Baha'i Faith does not believe that God requires any blood atonement to forgive sins Then YOU will not be in heaven and will die and go to Hell. The Bible says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. YOU make Adonai/God a liar and the truth is not in you, and that makes YOU a pagan.
Shalom

And you have to the audacity to say to him "Shalom"

J.

 

[David Koberstein]

I am a Baha’i, my friend. They are Messengers of God in the Baha’i Faith.

We don’t believe in the Trinity.

I’m a Baha’i.
They are not my idol friends. They take me to God just like Jesus.
They are not dust. They all sore the same heaven ans sit in the same throne.

I’m a Baha’i, David. Therefore, I do read and honor the Bible.

I’m a Baha’i, David.
Baha’is call Jesus Chirst Lord because He is.

I submit to God, through Bahá’u’lláh. In doing that I submit to all Messengers of God, including Lord Jesus.

My friend David: I’m a Baha’i. Our soteriology is different.

If we thought Baha’i were a false cult, we wouldn’t be Baha’is.
It is the transformative effect of Bahá’u’lláh teachings in our lives and communities which testifies of their truth.


We believe those narratives are true and necessary for men in this era. That is why I am a Baha’i.


Thanks for the advice. I have been reading them daily for years.


Shalom, David.

Too bad you have not learned anything.

I am a Baha’i, my friend. They are Messengers of God in the Baha’i Faith.

We don’t believe in the Trinity.

I’m a Baha’i.
They are not my idol friends. They take me to God just like Jesus.
They are not dust. They all sore the same heaven ans sit in the same throne.

I’m a Baha’i, David. Therefore, I do read and honor the Bible.

I’m a Baha’i, David.
Baha’is call Jesus Chirst Lord because He is.

I submit to God, through Bahá’u’lláh. In doing that I submit to all Messengers of God, including Lord Jesus.

My friend David: I’m a Baha’i. Our soteriology is different.

If we thought Baha’i were a false cult, we wouldn’t be Baha’is.
It is the transformative effect of Bahá’u’lláh teachings in our lives and communities which testifies of their truth.


We believe those narratives are true and necessary for men in this era. That is why I am a Baha’i.


Thanks for the advice. I have been reading them daily for years.


Shalom, David.

If you read Adonai's Word, then why haven't you learned anything? YOU are still a pagan.
The only transformative effect of the false teachings of Bahaulla will be sending you is to Hell. Baha'l will be going back to the pit of hell where it came from. There is only ONE way to God and that is through Jesus Christ,
not idols like Mohammed and Bahaulla. They went back to the dust of the ground and are no more. They died in their sins and are spending an eternity in HELL. If that is the path you are on then one day you will see your idol friends in Hell and people will walk on your dust as well.
Shalom

 

[synergy]

And you have to the audacity to say to him "Shalom"

J.

Let's look at what the Prince of Peace said to the Pharisees, who should have known better, in John 8:24.

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

 

[Johann]

Let's look at what the Prince of Peace said to the Pharisees, who should have known better, in John 8:24.

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

Here is what I'm going to do brother-you guys can gang up on @Pancho Frijoles -I seek peace and edification.

J.

 

[Administrator]

Please discuss the posts and not the posters.

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Any posts that do not follow the rules after this warning will be deleted.

 

[synergy]

Here is what I'm going to do brother-you guys can gang up on @Pancho Frijoles -I seek peace and edification.

J.

This is what I'll do. I'll follow the Prince of Peace and you can follow whomever you want. Peace is only found in truth. A foundation of appeasement is no peace at all.

 

[Johann]

This what I'll do. I'll follow the Prince of Peace and you can follow whomever you want. Peace is only found in truth. A foundation of appeasement is no peace at all.

Eph 4:1 Christians Should Live in Unity
¶ Therefore I, the prisoner in the Lord, exhort you to live in a manner worthy of the calling with which you were called:
Eph 4:2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, putting up with one another in love,
Eph 4:3 being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace;
Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit (just as also you were called with one hope of your calling),
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.

Eph 4:7 Gifted Leaders Bring the Church to Maturity
¶ Now to each one of us was given this grace, according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Eph 4:8 Therefore it says,
“Ascending on high he led captivity captive;
he gave gifts to men.” [A quotation from Ps 68:18]

Eph 4:9 ¶ Now “he ascended,” what is it , except that he also descended [Some secondary manuscripts add “first”] to the lower regions of the earth?
Eph 4:10 The one who descended himself is also the one who ascended above all the heavens, in order that he might fill all things .

Eph 4:11 ¶ And he himself gave some as apostles and some as prophets and some as evangelists and some as pastors and teachers
Eph 4:12 for the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all reach the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to a measure of the maturity of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed about by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching, by the trickery of people, by craftiness with reference to the scheming of deceit.
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow into him with reference to all things , who is the head, Christ,
Eph 4:16 from whom the whole body, joined together and held together by every supporting ligament, according to the working by measure of each single part, the growth of the body makes for the building up of itself in love.

The New Life
Eph 4:17 Appeal for New Behavior
¶ This therefore I say and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the Gentiles walk: in the futility of their mind,
Eph 4:18 being darkened in understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart,
Eph 4:19 who, becoming callous, gave themselves over to licentiousness, for the pursuit of all uncleanness in greediness.

Eph 4:20 ¶ But you did not learn Christ in this way,
Eph 4:21 if indeed you have heard about him, and you were taught by him (just as truth is in Jesus),
Eph 4:22 that you take off, according to your former way of life, the old man, who is being destroyed according to deceitful desires,
Eph 4:23 be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
Eph 4:24 and put on the new man (in accordance with God), who is created in righteousness and holiness from the truth.

Eph 4:25 Old Behavior, New Behavior, and Motivation
¶ Therefore, putting aside the lie, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, [An allusion to Zech 8:16] because we are members of one another.
Eph 4:26 Be angry and do not sin; [An allusion to Ps 4:4] do not let the sun set on your anger,
Eph 4:27 nor give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 The one who steals must steal no longer, but instead must labor, working with his own hands what is good, so that he may have something to share with the one who has need.
Eph 4:29 No rotten word must proceed [Literally “Every rotten word must not proceed”] from your mouth, but only something good for the building up of the need, in order that it may give grace to those who hear,
Eph 4:30 and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 All bitterness, and rage, and wrath, and clamor, and abusive speech, must be removed from you, together with all wickedness.
Eph 4:32 Become [Some manuscripts have “But become”] kind toward one another, compassionate, forgiving one another, just as also God in Christ has forgiven you.

You follow the Prince of Peace and I can "follow whatever I want?" Not very Christlike @synergy.

Shabbat Shalom u'shalom im Adonainu Yeshua HaMashiach.

J.

 

[synergy]

Eph 4:1 Christians Should Live in Unity
¶ Therefore I, the prisoner in the Lord, exhort you to live in a manner worthy of the calling with which you were called:
Eph 4:2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, putting up with one another in love,
Eph 4:3 being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace;
Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit (just as also you were called with one hope of your calling),
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.

Eph 4:7 Gifted Leaders Bring the Church to Maturity
¶ Now to each one of us was given this grace, according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Eph 4:8 Therefore it says,
“Ascending on high he led captivity captive;
he gave gifts to men.” [A quotation from Ps 68:18]

Eph 4:9 ¶ Now “he ascended,” what is it , except that he also descended [Some secondary manuscripts add “first”] to the lower regions of the earth?
Eph 4:10 The one who descended himself is also the one who ascended above all the heavens, in order that he might fill all things .

Eph 4:11 ¶ And he himself gave some as apostles and some as prophets and some as evangelists and some as pastors and teachers
Eph 4:12 for the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all reach the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to a measure of the maturity of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed about by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching, by the trickery of people, by craftiness with reference to the scheming of deceit.
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow into him with reference to all things , who is the head, Christ,
Eph 4:16 from whom the whole body, joined together and held together by every supporting ligament, according to the working by measure of each single part, the growth of the body makes for the building up of itself in love.

The New Life
Eph 4:17 Appeal for New Behavior
¶ This therefore I say and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the Gentiles walk: in the futility of their mind,
Eph 4:18 being darkened in understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart,
Eph 4:19 who, becoming callous, gave themselves over to licentiousness, for the pursuit of all uncleanness in greediness.

Eph 4:20 ¶ But you did not learn Christ in this way,
Eph 4:21 if indeed you have heard about him, and you were taught by him (just as truth is in Jesus),
Eph 4:22 that you take off, according to your former way of life, the old man, who is being destroyed according to deceitful desires,
Eph 4:23 be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
Eph 4:24 and put on the new man (in accordance with God), who is created in righteousness and holiness from the truth.

Eph 4:25 Old Behavior, New Behavior, and Motivation
¶ Therefore, putting aside the lie, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, [An allusion to Zech 8:16] because we are members of one another.
Eph 4:26 Be angry and do not sin; [An allusion to Ps 4:4] do not let the sun set on your anger,
Eph 4:27 nor give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 The one who steals must steal no longer, but instead must labor, working with his own hands what is good, so that he may have something to share with the one who has need.
Eph 4:29 No rotten word must proceed [Literally “Every rotten word must not proceed”] from your mouth, but only something good for the building up of the need, in order that it may give grace to those who hear,
Eph 4:30 and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 All bitterness, and rage, and wrath, and clamor, and abusive speech, must be removed from you, together with all wickedness.
Eph 4:32 Become [Some manuscripts have “But become”] kind toward one another, compassionate, forgiving one another, just as also God in Christ has forgiven you.

You follow the Prince of Peace and I can "follow whatever I want?" Not very Christlike @synergy.

Shabbat Shalom u'shalom im Adonainu Yeshua HaMashiach.

J.

Are you saying that there is "bitterness and rage, and wrath, and clamor, and abusive speech ... with all wickedness" in the following verse that I quoted?

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

Also, where does it say that I must appease those in error? Peace is only found in truth. If I don't alert others to errors in a respectful way then I am an accomplice to that error.

 

[civic]

The fact that I am self aware of this and the state of subjective versus objective reality should alert to you the fact I have very well considered the matter. Maybe you’re wrong about Jesus. Is that a possibility or no?

No I highly doubt that is the case. For no man unless that man is God can be the following.

The Word who was God
Savior of the World
Lord
Lord God
Lord and God
Messiah
God
YHWH-John 12:41
I Am- YHWH see John chapter 8
True God
True God and Eternal Life
Alpha and Omega
I Am the First and the Last
The Beginning and the End
The Almighty
The Lamb
The Lamb of God
The Word of God
Eternal Life
Life
Creator of all things
The Good Shepherd
Shepherd
The Resurrection and the Life
The Truth
The Way
The Life
True Light
The True Vine
The Word of Life
Light of the world
Savior
Only Begotten God
Only Begotten Son
The Bread of Life
The Gate
The Door
The King of the Jews
The King of Israel
The King
Life is found in Him
Faith in Him results in Eternal Life
The Scriptures are all about Him(Old Testament)
Lord of the Sabbath
Whatever the Father does, that I also do
Knows the hearts and thoughts of man
Raised the dead
Raised Himself from the dead
Forgave sin
Sinless
Holy One
Worshiped as God
Answers prayer as God
Dwells in all believers- omnipresent
Worshiped by angels
Worshiped by believers
Worshiped by those He healed
Worshiped by all creation
Worshiped together with the Father by all creation
Shares the Fathers Throne
Receives latereo and pronousko- worship due God alone
Faithful and True
Living One
Who was, is and is to come
King of Kings
Lord of Lords
Lion of the tribe of Judah
Morning Star
Holds the keys of death and hades
Song of the Lamb
Praised by all creation
Honored by all creation
Glorified by all creation
All creation sings praise to Him
Advocate
God manifest in the flesh
Almighty
Mighty God
Everlasting Father
Author and Finisher of our faith
The Beginning
Wonderful counselor
Prince of Peace
Immanuel
God with us
Our Great God and Savior
God and Savior
Lord and Savior
Only Sovereign
One Lord
Lord over all
Lord God Almighty
God forever praised
God over all
Bridegroom
Lord from heaven
Lord God Almighty
Lord our Righteousness
Lord Jesus Christ
Lord Jesus Christ our Savior
Lord of Glory
Chief Shepherd
Chief Cornerstone
Rock of Offence
Stumbling Block
The Holy One of Israel
Prophet
Master
Master and Lord
Mediator
Advocate
Propitiation
Prince of Life
Redeemer
Image of God

 

[Johann]

Are you saying that there is "bitterness and rage, and wrath, and clamor, and abusive speech ... with all wickedness" in the following verse that I quoted?

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

Also, where does it say that I must appease those in error? Peace is only found in truth. If I don't alert others to errors in a respectful way then I am an accomplice to that error.

He’s been made aware by multiple members of the concerns but remains convinced that he isn’t in error and won’t recant. So, what’s your next step-do you want to take a sledgehammer?

J.