Sealed by the baptism en the Holy Ghost

[Doug Brents]

Imagine a worker who must enter each of 300 buildings at his work site for a few minutes every day. However, 213 of those buildings are permeated with a deadly poisonous gas.

How many of those 213 buildings should be clearly labeled: DANGER! LETHAL POISONOUS GAS! YOU MUST WEAR PROTECTIVE MASK AND GEAR OR YOU WILL DIE! ?

The answer is clear! ALL OF THEM! EVERY BUILDING WITH LETHAL GAS SHOULD BE PROPERLY LABELED.

HOW IS IT ANY DIFFERENT WITH VERSES ON SALVATION? If being baptized before you're saved is a critical requirement to avoid the eternal fire of hell, THEN EVERY VERSE THAT LEADS ONE TO SALVATION SHOULD BE CLEARLY "MARKED" WITH A WARNING OF WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU'RE NOT BAPTIZED BEFORE YOU'RE SAVED.

But they're NOT.

Why? Because the danger is NOT in not getting baptized before you're saved - rather the danger is in not getting saved.

ROTFL

All of Scripture is ONE building; not 300, or 213, buildings. The divisions of chapter and verse are a modern human addition. If you notice, all the references to previously written Scripture within the Scriptures say "for it is written", but they don't give a "book, chapter, and verse" reference, because those things did not exist in that time.

There needs be only one sign or statement that salvation is received during water baptism for it to be sure and certain, and there are many of them.

 

[Fred]

There needs be only one sign or statement that salvation is received during water baptism for it to be sure and certain, and there are many of them.

You're seeing a mirage.

 

[mailmandan]

You're seeing a mirage.

Certain folks would walk around mountains of grace (Romans 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8,9) in order to find water. False religion turns symbols and shadows of salvation into the substance and the source.

 

[Jim]

You're seeing a mirage.

And you are blind.

 

[Fred]

And you are blind.

Your false teaching was so easy to refute.

F

Post in thread 'Sealed by the baptism en the Holy Ghost'

Yesterday at 4:00 AM

No, it is not.

To help you get out of your confusion:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/eli-insurance-policy.589/page-3#post-25287



They could speak in tongues because they had the Holy Spirit.

New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (TDNTT):
Yet the one great gift which he gives to his church is his Spirit (2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5; 1 Thess. 4:8; Lk. 11:13; cf. Acts 2:38; 8:17; 10:47; 19:6; also the OT quotations in Acts 2:17 f. [Joel 2:28 ff.] and Heb. 8:10 [Jer. 31:33]). In the church, all other “gifts”
(usually charisma, -> Grace) are...

• Fred

• 

 

[Doug Brents]

Your false teaching was so easy to refute.

You who are deluded find it easy to convince yourself that your that you have refuted true doctrine. I continue to pray that your eyes and heart would be opened to God's truth.

 

[Fred]

You who are deluded

I am not the one playing make believe with what the words of the Bible mean.

 

[dwight92070]

Yes, water baptism follows belief. But nowhere in the NT does it ever say that water baptism follows salvation.

Except for:

1. Acts 2:41 "So then, those who had received his word (salvation) were baptized."

2. Acts 8:12 "But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ (salvation), they were being baptized, men and women alike."

3. Acts 8:13 "Even Simon himself believed (salvation); and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip ..."

4. Acts 8:37-38 " ... I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (salvation) ... and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him."

5. Acts 22:10-16 (After Saul knew that it was Jesus who appeared to him - verse 8 - Saul then calls Him Lord) "What shall I do Lord?" (Later Ananias calls him 'brother') - verse 13 - "Brother Saul, receive your sight." (So Saul obviously was saved on the road, when Jesus appears to him) Later -verse 16 - Ananias tells Saul, "Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized ..."

6. Acts 11:17 Here Peter is explaining what happened to Cornelius and his family when he preached the gospel to them. He is specifically referring to the Holy Spirit falling on them - "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift AS HE GAVE TO US ALSO AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST (salvation), who was I that I could stand in God's way. THEN he ordered them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

7. Acts 16:14-15 "A woman named Lydia was listening (to Paul) ... and the Lord opened her heart to respond (salvation) to the things spoken by Paul. And when she and her household had been baptized ... "

8. Acts 16:30-33 (The Philippian jailer) "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" Paul and Silas answered him "(be baptized? NO) Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household. And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house (salvation) ... and immediately he was baptized, he and his household."

9. Acts 18:8 "Crispus ... believed in the Lord with all his household (salvation), and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing (salvation) and being baptized."

10. Acts 19:4-5 "Paul said ... telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus. When they heard this (salvation), they were being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

Your statement reveals extreme ignorance of the New Testament.

Get it straight - BELIEF IN OR BELIEVING IN THE GOSPEL IS SALVATION. Acts 10:43 " ... everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins (salvation).

 

[Doug Brents]

Your statement is either an extreme lie or extreme ignorance of the New Testament.

Nope, it is properly understanding that salvation is received in baptism, not through "belief only".

 

[dwight92070]

Nope, it is properly understanding that salvation is received in baptism, not through "belief only".

I guess Jim handed the baton off to you. What? Did Jim feel the pressure?

 

[Doug Brents]

I guess Jim handed the baton off to you. What? Did Jim feel the pressure?

Not at all. He can hold his own, but this is an open forum so I felt free to comment on your accusation.

 

[dwight92070]

Not at all. He can hold his own, but this is an open forum so I felt free to comment on your accusation.

ALL of the 10 places in Acts that even mention baptism, which I have quoted in #248, clearly show us that repentance, belief, faith, forgiveness of sins, (all of which occur at the point of being born again or saved) - always happen before baptism. There are NO exceptions. Read them and identify in EACH VERSE where baptism happens before they were saved.

Your so-called proper understanding is a "different gospel", which dishonors Christ, since it's believing in His work ALONE that saves, NOT His work plus baptism. The Judaizers wanted His work plus circumcision. That was strongly rejected by Paul and the Jerusalem council. They would also reject His work plus baptism or His work plus ____?____ - you name it. We cannot add anything to the work of Christ.

 

[dwight92070]

ROTFL

All of Scripture is ONE building; not 300, or 213, buildings. The divisions of chapter and verse are a modern human addition. If you notice, all the references to previously written Scripture within the Scriptures say "for it is written", but they don't give a "book, chapter, and verse" reference, because those things did not exist in that time.

There needs be only one sign or statement that salvation is received during water baptism for it to be sure and certain, and there are many of them.

Actually there are NONE - except in your dreams.

 

[Doug Brents]

ALL of the 10 places in Acts that even mention baptism, which I have quoted in #248, clearly show us that repentance, belief, faith, forgiveness of sins, (all of which occur at the point of being born again or saved) - always happen before baptism.

So you are saying that one is saved when they repent, regardless of belief? Or at the point of belief, regardless of repentance? Or upon faith regardless of repentance or belief? No, one may repent and not be forgiven. And one may belief and not be saved. No, one is not saved at repentance or belief before baptism, for as Scripture says it is in baptism that salvation comes, one dies to sin and is born again, one is forgiven, and one enters into Christ and His Church.

There are NO exceptions. Read them and identify in EACH VERSE where baptism happens before they were saved.

Yes indeed, baptism happens before (at the point that) each one is saved. Yes, they believed before they were baptized, and they repented before they were baptized; but they were saved when they were born again of water and the Spirit.

Your so-called proper understanding is a "different gospel", which dishonors Christ, since it's believing in His work ALONE that saves, NOT His work plus baptism.

There is no "plus". We are saved BY Jesus' blood alone. But we are saved THROUGH repentance, confession of Him as Lord, and water baptism. Just as Naaman was saved by God's power through dipping in Jordan seven times. And the widow was saved by God's power through offering her last meal to the prophet. And the other widow was saved by God's power through her borrowing jars and pouring oil. And the walls of Jericho fell by the power of God through the marching of Israel.

The Judaizers wanted His work plus circumcision. That was strongly rejected by Paul and the Jerusalem council. They would also reject His work plus baptism or His work plus ____?____ - you name it. We cannot add anything to the work of Christ.

Nothing is being added to the work of Christ.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Nope, it is properly understanding that salvation is received in baptism, not through "belief only".

actually, we are saved at baptism, when God baptized us into christ, into his death, into his body. and into himself.

we are baptized in water after. like we should obey every one of Gods commands after

 

[dwight92070]

Actually there are NONE - except in your dreams.

Thanks for the lesson on the division of chapters and verses, which I've been aware of for 5 1/2 decades. Now let me give you a lesson: even though the chapter and verse divisions in the Bible are man-made, they are put there for our convenience, so we can easily identify a certain location for particular words in the Scripture. It behooves us to USE THEM. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. This is why you use them too.
I have identified 213 "locations" called verses from the book of Acts through Jude where salvation is presented, without a reference to baptism. Yet there are only twelve (12) verses in Acts through Jude where salvation is presented WITH a reference to baptism. That's 5 1/2% of ALL those verses that make a reference to salvation AND baptism. Yet NONE (ZERO) of the TWELVE verses require baptism to be saved and NONE of the TWELVE verses show baptism occuring BEFORE salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

actually, we are saved at baptism,

in water, as Scripture says

when God baptized us into christ, into his death, into his body. and into himself.

which occurs during water baptism.

we are baptized in water after. like we should obey every one of Gods commands after

We must obey Him even before we receive His adoption, else we are not His.

 

[Doug Brents]

Thanks for the lesson on the division of chapters and verses, which I've been aware of for 5 1/2 decades. Now let me give you a lesson: even though the chapter and verse divisions in the Bible are man-made, they are put there for our convenience, so we can easily identify a certain location for particular words in the Scripture. It behooves us to USE THEM. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. This is why you use them too.
I have identified 213 "locations" called verses from the book of Acts through Jude where salvation is presented, without a reference to baptism. Yet there are only twelve (12) verses in Acts through Jude where salvation is presented WITH a reference to baptism. That's 5 1/2% of ALL those verses that make a reference to salvation AND baptism. Yet NONE (ZERO) of the TWELVE verses require baptism to be saved and NONE of the TWELVE verses show baptism occuring BEFORE salvation.

Your opinion on those verses is noted, but does not agree with what Scripture says.
No one can enter the Kingdom of God except he be born again of water and the Spirit - Water and the Spirit both must come before entrance to the Kingdom of God.
Baptism (in water, like the Flood) now saves you - It is in baptism that we are saved by the Spirit.
In baptism we die to sin and are resurrected with Christ - If we don't pass through baptism, then we have not died to sin and so cannot be resurrected with Christ.

You would put the fall of the walls of Jericho before the marching of Israel the seven days.
You would put the cleansing of Naaman before he dipped seven times.
You would put the feeding of the widow before she gave her last bite to the prophet.
That is not how Scripture depicts God's blessings.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So the Spirit being in you is powerless?

Give it up.

Silly question!!! The Holy Spirit IN me is that whish makes me a "child of God". Miracles/Gifts are the result of the Holy Spirit ON me.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

in water, as Scripture says

nope

which occurs during water baptism.

nope

We must obey Him even before we receive His adoption, else we are not His.

then you are saved by works, you reject grace.