Sealed by the baptism en the Holy Ghost
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
You continue to conflate the indwelling work of Holy Spirit and the miracle empowering work of the Holy Spirit. Both are said to be "gifts of the Holy Spirit"; however, with the indwelling Holy Spirit the gift is the Holy Spirit while with the empowering Holy Spirit the gift is the ability to work miracles. They are not the same.
It doesn't say that nor does it even imply that.
All you need is a bit of understanding and comprehension about what you read in the Scriptures.
No, it is not. It says that they spoke in tongues which says what the gift was.
Act 10:45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For [because] they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God.
That indicates that the gift was the ability to speak in tongues, not the indwelling Holy Spirit.
But you believe what you wish.
To help you get out of your confusion:
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/eli-insurance-policy.589/page-3#post-25287
They could speak in tongues because they had the Holy Spirit.
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (TDNTT):
Yet the one great gift which he gives to his church is his Spirit (2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5; 1 Thess. 4:8; Lk. 11:13; cf. Acts 2:38; 8:17; 10:47; 19:6; also the OT quotations in Acts 2:17 f. [Joel 2:28 ff.] and Heb. 8:10 [Jer. 31:33]). In the church, all other “gifts”
(usually charisma, -> Grace) are the results of this one gift (Rom. 12:3 ff.; 1 Cor. 12:1 ff., cf. also 2 Pet. 1:3)
(2:42, Gift, H. Vorlander).
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dwight92070
Active Member
Just as Romans 10:5 speaks of a righteous man living according to the law, so Romans 10:9-10 speaks of a righteous man living by faith - i.e. he is already saved. Believing and confessing is simply a sign that he has already been born again. The same was true of Abraham, who had walked with the Lord for decades, when the Lord counted his faith as righteousness. Romans 4:5
But not the indwelling Holy Spirit.
To be counted as righteousness is the act of God's saving. Faith comes before salvation. Faith, i.e., believing in God, repentance, confession, baptism all conditions ending in salvation.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Only in your delusions. The Gentiles had received empowerment of the Spirit, but not salvation, not the indwelling Spirit. That is only received upon salvation, and that is received in water baptism.
Repentance which leads to life, but not life immediately received upon repentance. Faith is required, and they had not yet exhibited faith through obedience to the Gospel command.
Indeed they did, as soon as they obeyed the Gospel and were baptized into Christ.
No, Scripture puts them in their proper place, but you twist Scripture to fit your false doctrine.
To help you get out of your confusion:
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/eli-insurance-policy.589/page-3#post-25287
Doug Brents
Active Member
To insist that they were saved before Scripture says they were is dishonest. You ignore direct statements, twisting them to fit your doctrine, and then interpret events by those twisted conclusions. Instead you should accept the truth found in 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36, Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27 and others where the direct statements of God say salvation is received during water baptism.
You are correct, it does not. But then, stating that a person who gets splashed with water is wet doesn't mention oil at all either. But a person splashed with oil is still wet. 1 Cor 12 in no way makes the gifts mentioned there exclusive to the Church.
No, it is not. It is your assumption, but not truth. Just because they received the gift of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean that He was indwelling them at that point.
The last five words you quote here disprove your assertion. Their hearts were purified BY FAITH, not by the falling of the Spirit on them in power; not by them speaking in tongues. Their hearts were purified when they obeyed the Gospel in water baptism.
Obviously they were not children of God, and obviously the works they did were not credited to them as righteousness. In
Matt 24:24, Jesus says that there WILL BE false prophets who perform miracles, so it is not unreasonable to accept that these false prophets really did do what they claim to have done.
Doug Brents
Active Member
So your are saying that Israel dishonored God by marching around Jericho, and caused His knocking down the walls to be ineffective?
Or the widow who borrowed all the jars she could dishonored God because she obeyed the prophet.
Or the other widow who gave her last meal to the prophet dishonored God because she obeyed the prophet?
These people added to what God commanded, and so denied the effectiveness of God's power and dishonored Him?????
Doug Brents
Active Member
No confusion on my part here. The confusion is yours, as I have demonstrated repeatedly.
No you haven't.
mailmandan
Active Member
Until you believe the gospel and the blinders are removed, I will just continue to waste my time beating a dead horse.
