Satan and his Lies

@FreeInChrist
LOL. A safe reply. So are the preterists I know and they could run rings around you with their spot on scriptures .
Three Resurrections is one of them, even though he not a full blown preterist, but close. Have you heard from him lately? I'm a little concern. I may check on him, I know about where he lives in Greenville, which is about thirty minutes from me.
 
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@jeremiah1five

Being hungry was not Jesus' only temptation.
Tell me, has a angel ever tempted you? Or do you hold to and believe as Chick publications does?

All my temptations in my life come from within. There is only ONE way and James tells us:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14.

If it was a fallen angel then that position destroys Peter's words:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

There are NO ANGELS in chains of darkness reserved unto judgment. For some reason they overpowered God and got loose. IF even one angel is loose on the planet, then Peter is a liar. Not only that, so is Saul. Jesus cannot be our Mediator nor our Intercessor for He was NOT tempted in all ways as we are:

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15.

If Lucifer the archangel was involve in Jesus' temptation then Jesus was NOT tempted in all 'points' as we are and Saul is a liar as with Peter who claims the angels that sinned are 'locked up' awaiting judgment. They are all loose on the planet but I've never run into one. Have you?
Matthew 4:5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."

Are you saying that Jesus had thoughts within his heart of whether or not he was the Son of God? That's impossible, for that would have been a sin, a weakness on his part, which that never happened, no not for one second! It was the devil himself that was tempting him to tempt God!
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matthew 4:1.

Since when does an adjective become a noun?

5 Then the devil [adjective] taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, Matthew 4:5.

8 Again, the devil [adjective] taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Matthew 4: 8.

11 Then the devil [adjective] leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. Mattthew 4:11.

Jesus was both God and man. I don't think any of us have any real idea what it's like to undergo what Jesus went through. His flesh needed to be tested. He was tempted in all points as we are. He knew who He was. At the age of twelve He knew. Since when does the Lord of the universe bend His will to the devil (noun) to be taken anywhere?
You're giving me the textbook answer and it falls short. Come under the anointing and study these things.

Jesus was hungered. Does He turn stones into bread and eat or continue His fast?
If He entertained turning stones into bread that is not a sin.
Then His flesh "took" Him up some stairs to the pinnacle of the Temple. Do I jump and reveal myself before the time or wait it out?
He walks up a high mountain. He knows some things about the future. Do I bow to my human flesh of overcome the flesh like some writers of the letters in the New Testament say?
Your beliefs are problematic. He felt His flesh. We can understand this for we can feel when our flesh is at war against the Spirit within us. But I've also under the anointing overcome my flesh and it goes away. If you make Jesus' temptation supernatural then He cannot be our Mediator and Intercessor and He DOES NOT KNOW what we go through.

Matthew 4:8​

“Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.”

Now, THINK....can a man's heart which some say is the devil, actually has the power to give us anything? This is the prince of this world offering Jesus greatness if he only would fall down and worship him, which many have done, actually all are doing even now, who have given their souls over to him just to enjoy the things Mystery Babylon is offering them to serve its purposes.
Have you ever been tempted from within and thought about what submitting to your flesh would bring? Have you played that game? Do you bow to your flesh or do you bow to the Spirit?

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Galatians 5:17.
These temptation did not come from within Jesus, those would have been a sin to even desire such things, desire is conceiving, all it has to do is make a way to fulfill those wicked lust. Jesus never had a lustful sinful thought, never. The only lust that drove him was teh will God, in thoughts, words and deeds.

James 1:14​

“But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”

Then you need to continue searching and studying. If in all sincerity, then may God grant you more understanding, and light.
It is after you are enticed by your longing that it becomes sin.

I'm good. It is you that needs to study under the anointing and come up with some real original thinking and stop regurgitating what you read of other men's bible studies.
If all we need to do is say what other men say then there's no need to study for ourselves. No light, no illumination, no enlightenment. Just copy someone else. The lazy man's way.
 
@Studyman

Can you address others on this forum without always putting them in the same category as the many false prophets in Mystery Babylon ~ Jim Bakker does not believe as I do, not even close.

I don't "Always" place "everyone" on this forum in the same category as the "many" who Jesus specifically warned about. I compare specific doctrines and philosophies to what the scriptures actually say, and if they don't align with All of what is written, I point it out for discussion. If the person tries to deflect or redirect the discussion to shield the specific doctrines or philosophies from Scriptures, to preserve or protect them, this is a tactic used by deceivers throughout the Scriptures. Jesus speaks to this very thing in John 3.


I have never said that I our flesh is not an enemy of God; actually, I believe that more than you do,

You don't believe it more than I do, at least not based on your sermons. But I'm glad you understand this Truth. It is central to the Adam and Eve story, the very first example that Christ had written for our admonition, detailing the first temptation and sin of mankind. It is the reason why I posted on this thread in the first place.

James, inspired by the Spirit of Christ, understood how Eve was deceived, and by the Mercy of Christ, detailed for us how every human is tempted, and how the temptation becomes a sin.

You and Civic, have adopted a different philosophy from a different source and pretty much reject James and his Christ inspired explanation of the deceiving process first shown to us in the Adam and Eve story.

Choosing instead, to promote an ancient Catholic philosophy that places the blame of Eves sin, on a talking snake. Clearly God didn't hold the same philosophy, according to what is actually written.

I am hoping for an honest discussion instead of just preserving and protecting a popular religious philosophy promoted by "Many" who Jesus Himself specifically warned against. And if I am proven wrong, the "Word of God" will expose it, and I can be corrected and renewed in the spirit of my own mind. So please this time, actually consider my posts, as I consider yours.

We agree that God created Adam and Eve with free will and the ability to "Act" accordingly, Yes? If you don't believe this, please let me know.

But if Adam and Eve were, it is an absolute, undeniable truth about "Free will", that there must be some form of boundary for those who have it, until they learn how to wield it. It is one thing if a man is alone on an island, his free will choices only affect him, will only in the end, if unchecked, uncontrolled, destroy him. But Adam and Eve were not alone, in fact, they were commanded to multiply, to become "many". So God knows all of this, Yes?

So HE gave them boundaries which is an absolute necessity of free will. In essence HE said, "You have free will" and there is a great freedom in that, BUT, your free will must not cause harm or danger to yourself or others. So I'm going to give you some guidelines, because the greatest enemy of all, the most deceitful, subtle, dangerous and wicked creation of all my creation, is a mortal human with free will, but with no boundaries or limitations. In other words, "The heart of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" with the capacity to cause great harm to others. Therefore a man needs to "Yield Himself" to Gods instruction in righteousness, not their own, until they grow in the knowledge of God, and learn from HIM how to live with free will.

So God gave them boundaries, "Thou shall Not", knowing full well their "free will", their own flesh, would inevitably challenge the boundaries, by virtue of their very creation "with free will". (But I want that, I desire that, I need that) And if unchecked these "Fleshy thoughts" would become deeds, and the deeds would bring about death and destruction. Not only for themselves, but their entire world.

Just as God, whose image they were created after, with all power and free will, if unchecked by Discipline, Love, Compassion and forgiveness, would cause the destruction of everything good, would create chaos, wickedness and the corruption of everything.

Therefore, He gave them some Armor, a "Sword" so to speak, to keep their free will in check until they "Learned obedience". Learned to choose Gods Word above all other voices, imaginations, and thoughts that a free will human would, by the very nature of their creation, have.

And this was the perfect human. It is good that a creation with free will would accept that they needed guidance to survive, because unchecked, their free will would destroy them. Unchecked, their free will would become their greatest Enemy, and the enemy of all others around them. But with God's instruction in righteousness, a human with free will could become a light, a benefit, a help to all others. Jesus is the perfect demonstration of this in my view. Jesus is a personal being with a mind, emotions and a will of His Own. And yet, HE sacrificed His Own will, to do the Will of His Father, and my Father until HE learned Love Righteousness and Hate wickedness, or as the Prophets teach;

Is. 7: 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to "refuse" the evil, and "choose" the good. (Free Will choice)

This is why God only warned Adam and Eve of a danger that comes from within. And not a danger that comes from without.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good "and evil", thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof "thou shalt surely die".

Where would the thought come from, to reject this guideline from God? Would it not come from "within" a free will? Where is the warning of a "devil", or a talking snake that forces itself into the minds of men here?

To believe you and Civic and the Catholic religion, I would have to believe that God forgot, or simply refused to warn her about, what you and Civic, and the Catholic religion promote as the greatest Danger ever created, a danger "from Without". That God sent Eve into the world with, as Civic Preaches, a talking snake "who is a personal being, with a mind, emotions, and a will".
with no warning that even such a creature, that you claim is the root cause of all this world's pain, misery and destruction, even existed.

According to you guys, Christ sent Eve there with no warning of this danger at all.

Think about that Red, if your flesh will allow.

And then, when she was deceived by this talking snake that God didn't warn her about, God punished her with a very harsh punishment. But not just her, her children as well, and me and my children and every human in between.

No Red, I will not partake with you, in such a wicked implication and judgment against God. The unchecked flesh of man, is the only place the "adversary" AKA the "devil" exists. If the Flesh is crucified, ruled over, and it's deeds mortified, "to view as a corpse, i.e. without life; to regard (but not "make") as dead, inoperative; to mortify, deprive of life or energizing power; (figuratively) to cut off (sever) " satan can not exist. It has no power outside of the unchecked Flesh of a human mind. Had Eve simply ruled over her fleshy desire to eat that which God forbid her to eat, by bringing it into subjection of the Boundaries God gave her, there is no sin.

To mortify the flesh "IS" resisting the Devil.

Remember, we have fed our flesh with it's itching ears and fleshy desires for years. It is become a monster. When we turn to God, the new man, the Caleb in us will say, "Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it." But the Carnal Fleshy thoughts we have protected, preserved and fed for years will say: "We be not able to go up against the old self; for he is stronger than us".

This is all connected, all written for those true worshippers God is Seeking. Men with free will, who "Offer themselves" to Him. "Yield themselves" to Him, "Submit themselves" to Him of their own free will.

No Red, you guys are promoting ancient catholic philosophies designed to keep ones eyes and attention on things from without, not things from within. Being convinced through the lust of their flesh, and itchy ears, that nothing from within you, can defile you. A voice from within that "says unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you".

2 Tim. 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (The talking snake made me do it)

And this has been warned about in the Prophets as well.

Is. 30: 8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

You and Civic can live by the excuse, "The devil made me do it", like Adam and Eve did if you want, and truly it is the way of the world.

But I don't believe that is the message God wanted me to garner from the Parables of the talking snake.
 
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I don't "Always" place "everyone" on this forum in the same category as the "many" who Jesus specifically warned about. I compare specific doctrines and philosophies to what the scriptures actually say, and if they don't align with All of what is written, I point it out for discussion. If the person tries to deflect or redirect the discussion to shield the specific doctrines or philosophies from Scriptures, to preserve or protect them, this is a tactic used by deceivers throughout the Scriptures. Jesus speaks to this very thing in John 3.




You don't believe it more than I do, at least not based on your sermons. But I'm glad you understand this Truth. It is central to the Adam and Eve story, the very first example that Christ had written for our admonition, detailing the first temptation and sin of mankind. It is the reason why I posted on this thread in the first place.

James, inspired by the Spirit of Christ, understood how Eve was deceived, and by the Mercy of Christ, detailed for us how every human is tempted, and how the temptation becomes a sin.

You and Civic, have adopted a different philosophy from a different source and pretty reject James and his Christ inspired explanation of the deceiving process first shown to us in the Adam and Eve story.

Choosing instead, to promote an ancient Catholic philosophy that places the blame of Eves sin, on a talking snake. Clearly God didn't hold the same philosophy, according to what is actually written.

I am hoping for an honest discussion instead of just preserving and protecting a popular religious philosophy promoted by "Many" who Jesus Himself specifically warned against. And if I am proven wrong, the "Word of God" will expose it, and I can be corrected and renewed in the spirit of my own mind. So please this time, actually consider my posts, as I consider yours.

We agree that God created Adam and Eve with free will and the ability to "Act" accordingly, Yes? If you don't believe this, please let me know.

But if Adam and Eve were, it is an absolute, undeniable truth about "Free will", that there must be some form of boundary for those who have it, until they learn how to wield it. It is one thing if a man is alone on an island, his free will choices only affect him, will only in the end, if unchecked, uncontrolled, destroy him. But Adam and Eve were not alone, in fact, they were commanded to multiply, to become "many". So God knows all of this, Yes?

So HE gave them boundaries which is an absolute necessity of free will. In essence HE said, "You have free will" and there is a great freedom in that, BUT, your free will must not cause harm or danger to yourself or others. So I'm going to give you some guidelines, because the greatest enemy of all, the most deceitful, subtle, dangerous and wicked creation of all my creation, is a mortal human with free will, but with no boundaries or limitations. In other words, "The heart of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" with the capacity to cause great harm to others. Therefore a man needs to "Yield Himself" to Gods instruction in righteousness, not their own, until they grow in the knowledge of God, and learn from HIM how to live with free will.

So God gave them boundaries, "Thou shall Not", knowing full well their "free will", their own flesh, would inevitably challenge the boundaries, by virtue of their very creation "with free will". (But I want that, I desire that, I need that) And if unchecked these "Fleshy thoughts" would become deeds, and the deeds would bring about death and destruction. Not only for themselves, but their entire world.

Just as God, whose image they were created after, with all power and free will, if unchecked by Discipline, Love, Compassion and forgiveness, would cause the destruction of everything good, would create chaos, wickedness and the corruption of everything.

Therefore, He gave them some Armor, a "Sword" so to speak, to keep their free will in check until they "Learned obedience". Learned to choose Gods Word above all other voices, imaginations, and thoughts that a free will human would, by the very nature of their creation, have.

And this was the perfect human. It is good that a creation with free will would accept that they needed guidance to survive, because unchecked, their free will would destroy them. Unchecked, their free will would become their greatest Enemy, and the enemy of all others around them. But with God's instruction in righteousness, a human with free will could become a light, a benefit, a help to all others. Jesus is the perfect demonstration of this in my view. Jesus is a personal being with a mind, emotions and a will of His Own. And yet, HE sacrificed His Own will, to do the Will of His Father, and my Father until HE learned Love Righteousness and Hate wickedness, or as the Prophets teach;

Is. 7: 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to "refuse" the evil, and "choose" the good. (Free Will choice)

This is why God only warned Adam and Eve of a danger that comes from within. And not a danger that comes from without.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good "and evil", thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof "thou shalt surely die".

Where would the thought come from, to reject this guideline from God? Would it not come from "within" a free will? Where is the warning of a "devil", or a talking snake that forces itself into the minds of men here?

To believe you and Civic and the Catholic religion, I would have to believe that God forgot, or simply refused to warn her about, what you and Civic, and the Catholic religion promote as the greatest Danger ever created, a danger "from Without". That God sent Eve into the world with, as Civic Preaches, a talking snake "who is a personal being, with a mind, emotions, and a will".
with no warning that even such a creature, that you claim is the root cause of all this world's pain, misery and destruction, even existed.

According to you guys, Christ sent Eve there with no warning of this danger at all.

Think about that Red, if your flesh will allow.

And then, when she was deceived by this talking snake that God didn't warn her about, God punished her with a very harsh punishment. But not just her, her children as well, and me and my children and every human in between.

No Red, I will not partake with you, in such a wicked implication and judgment against God. The unchecked flesh of man, is the only place the "adversary" AKA the "devil" exists. If the Flesh is crucified, ruled over, and it's deeds mortified, "to view as a corpse, i.e. without life; to regard (but not "make") as dead, inoperative; to mortify, deprive of life or energizing power; (figuratively) to cut off (sever) " satan can not exist. It has no power outside of the unchecked Flesh of a human mind. Had Eve simply ruled over her fleshy desire to eat that which God forbid her to eat, by bringing it into subjection of the Boundaries God gave her, there is no sin.

To mortify the flesh "IS" resisting the Devil.

Remember, we have fed our flesh with it's itching ears and fleshy desires for years. It is become a monster. When we turn to God, the new man, the Caleb in us will say, "Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it." But the Carnal Fleshy thoughts we have protected, preserved and fed for years will say: "We be not able to go up against the old self; for he is stronger than us".

This is all connected, all written for those true worshippers God is Seeking. Men with free will, who "Offer themselves" to Him. "Yield themselves" to Him, "Submit themselves" to Him of their own free will.

No Red, you guys are promoting ancient catholic philosophies designed to keep ones eyes and attention on things from without, not things from within. Being convinced through the lust of their flesh, and itchy ears, that nothing from within you, can defile you. A voice from within that "says unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you".

2 Tim. 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

And this has been warned about in the Prophets as well.

Is. 30: 8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

You and Civic can live by the excuse, "The devil made me do it", like Adam and Eve did if you want, and truly it is the way of the world.

But I don't believe that is the message God wanted me to garner from the Parables of the talking snake.
adam and eve is a parable just the same as Job and satan is a parable , c'mon get with it :ROFLMAO:

see how easy that was to dismantle. your theology lacks substance and discernment
 
The parable of Job ?

Folks you heard it first denying Gods word once again now in the historical book of Job.

Matt. 13: 34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Gen. 3: 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Job. 1: 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

In my understanding, it was the same Christ that Inspired all these Words. Now you are free to promote that a literal talking snake deceived Eve, and that God literally didn't know where His Sons came from if you want. I may deny your preaching, But I deny nothing in Scriptures.

Matt. 13: 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
 
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What do you do when you come across Scripture that seems to contradict themselves?

Peter says the angels that sinned are "locked up."

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

Choose the one that supports your personal belief? Or do you need to study further to resolve the seeming contradiction.
Is Peter lying?
I pull out this book "Perplexing Scriptures Explained"

By, Ángel Manuel Rodríguez who is part-time associate director of the Biblical Research Institute, having retired from leading that organization. Previously he was president of Antillian College and the academic vice president of Southwestern Adventist University. He earned his ThD in biblical theology from Andrews University. His special research interests include Old Testament, Sanctuary and Atonement, and Old Testament Theology. He has written several books, and authors a monthly column in Adventist World.
 
@Studyman , You made an exhaustive reply to @Red Baker in reply #146 and made the oddest comment I have ever read.

"According to you guys, Christ sent Eve there with no warning of this danger at all."

First of all you have zero idea what she was or was not warned about.

But, I say it was not God's fault at all.... It was her husbands because he was the one with fellowship with God and he is the one who was given the rules. If he was not able to express the importance of just saying no to his wife, that is on him.

Through out the bible we are told that “Wives, are to submit themselves to their husbands husbands"

Did Adam truly explain the importance of leaving that fruit alone? I do not think so, but if he did, then that was not on God, it was her choice.

Just my opinion.
 
@Studyman , You made an exhaustive reply to @Red Baker in reply #146 and made the oddest comment I have ever read.

"According to you guys, Christ sent Eve there with no warning of this danger at all."

If you would carefully consider what I posted, you would see that I am addressing a popular religious philosophy of this world God placed me in, that is being promoted by Civic and Red concerning how one is tempted, and how the first sin came about. Namely that the greatest danger in this world, according their stated doctrine, is a talking snake, AKA, the devil, and I believe this philosophy they have adopted is the result of ancient Catholic doctrines, not the story of Adam and Eve, as written.

If this popular philosophy they promote is true, this would imply that according to scriptures, although God did warn them, and we can read what God warned them about, there is no mention of what they, and "many" who come in Christ's Name preach, is the greatest danger they and we would face in this life, that is, the talking snake. And I verbalized this implication in the sentence you copied,

"According to you guys, Christ sent Eve there with no warning of this danger (The talking snake) at all".

Clearly God warned her of her choices, including the choice that Jesus Himself said "Comes from within".

My short study deals in part, how I came to my understanding.

First of all you have zero idea what she was or was not warned about.

I believe I know what God intended me to know based on what is actually written, that men have freedom, "BUT" there are limits to this freedom if I want to live. And I have the free will choice to "live by" these limits, if I so choose, and live, or reject these limits, if I so choose, and die. This truth was part of the very creation of man, before a talking snake came into the picture.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I think you are mistaken to imply or teach others that we have "Zero idea" what Eve was or was not warned about in the story of Adam and Eve.

But, I say it was not God's fault at all....

I couldn't agree more. And further more, nothing in my post suggests or implies that it was God's Fault at all. I think that if you would re-read my post, you would see that I never implied such a thing. Eve implied that it was God's fault for the talking snake HE created that she chose to listen to. Adam implied it was God's fault because of the woman God gave Him. Many of this world's preachers "who call Jesus Lord Lord", also imply it was God's fault for placing the talking snake in the garden, but not warning Adam and Eve about it.

But as you can see, God didn't blame Himself, therefore, it wasn't God's Fault.


It was her husbands because he was the one with fellowship with God and he is the one who was given the rules. If he was not able to express the importance of just saying no to his wife, that is on him.

It seems that Eve had the Words of God, and His warnings given to her husband, on her very lips. Are you saying it was Adam's fault because he didn't follow her around and make her obey? So then, under this philosophy, how is it not God's Fault that Adam disobeyed? Is God supposed to follow them around and make them obey the rules? And if they don't because God left them alone, what shall HE do? Kill Himself? Why then did God give them free will? Why not just create obedient servants, and make them live forever? I think you are missing the entire point of this story.

Who did God blame for Eve's Sin? Did HE Blame Adam? No, you can read this for yourself. And yet, you are. This is what I mean in my reply, this is what I hope people will consider, as I have come to consider. Who made you question God's Judgment here? Even teach against it? A talking snake? A fallen angel? Or did you, of your own free will, make the judgement according to the dictates of your own flesh?

I mean no offense here. I am caught in this same trap all the time. Paul was too. I don't want to make these judgments, as I'm sure you don't want to either. Nevertheless, you did, and so have I. Listen to what Paul said was the answer for this "body of death".

Rom. 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. ("a mortified flesh", look up the greek for this word)

Wasn't Eve created with the ability to do the same? What would have happened to the voice of the talking snake if she had just did what she knew God instructed her to do? It would have departed. "Resist the "other voice in the garden God placed us in, and it will have no power over us".

I hope instead of becoming angry with me, as so many do, you will consider instead, how amazing and gracious the "Simplicity of Christ" is. It's a fascinating study, I hope you might engage in it, in the privacy of your home as you "Seek the Righteousness of God", as also instructed.

Through out the bible we are told that “Wives, are to submit themselves to their husbands husbands"

Yes, absolutely. "Wives' are supposed to "Submit themselves" to their husbands. The man is supposed to "Submit themselves" to the Christ. The Christ is supposed to "Submit Himself" to God. That is the Godly Hierarchy, Yes? Eve had so many weapons given to her in the garden. She could have and should have run to Adam when another voice, regardless of where it originated, approached her. She could have and should have cried out to God, "God help me, I don't want to question your judgment".

But if she refused to "Submit" to Adam's instruction concerning the tree, that she knew and repeated to the voice in her mind, then whose fault is that? Whose fault can it even be? She had everything she needed, God's Covering, God's Word, but she lacked the most important thing, belief in God, AKA "Faith". And this because of the lusts "of her own flesh".

Is this not the lesson God intended for you and I to garner from this story?

Did Adam truly explain the importance of leaving that fruit alone?
I do not think so, but if he did, then that was not on God, it was her choice.

Just my opinion.

Where does it say, "Wives submit to your husbands as long as they explain things to you in a manner you deem as sufficient", in which case she should listen to the words of another??

Where is it written for a man to "submit to Christ" but only to those things that go along with his fleshes desires, in which case we should take matters in our own hands?

Where is it written that the Christ should "submit to His Father" except in tough times, in which case HE should create His Own ways.

Remember what happened to Eve when she lived by her own opinion!

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

There is a lot of knowledge and wisdom to be gained from careful study of the first written example of a temptation and subsequent sin.

I truly hope you might take the time and study them for yourself.

Thanks for the reply.
 
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If you would carefully consider what I posted, you would see that I am addressing a popular religious philosophy of this world God placed me in, that is being promoted by Civic and Red concerning how one is tempted, and how the first sin came about. Namely that the greatest danger in this world, according their stated doctrine, is a talking snake, AKA, the devil, and I believe this philosophy they have adopted is the result of ancient Catholic doctrines, not the story of Adam and Eve, as written.

If this popular philosophy they promote is true, this would imply that according to scriptures, although God did warn them, and we can read what God warned them about, there is no mention of what they, and "many" who come in Christ's Name preach, is the greatest danger they and we would face in this life, that is, the talking snake. And I verbalized this implication in the sentence you copied,

"According to you guys, Christ sent Eve there with no warning of this danger (The talking snake) at all".

Clearly God warned her of her choices, including the choice that Jesus Himself said "Comes from within".

My short study deals in part, how I came to my understanding.



I believe I know what God intended me to know based on what is actually written, that men have freedom, "BUT" there are limits to this freedom if I want to live. And I have the free will choice to "live by" these limits, if I so choose, and live, or reject these limits, if I so choose, and die. This truth was part of the very creation of man, before a talking snake came into the picture.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I think you are mistaken to imply or teach others that we have "Zero idea" what Eve was or was not warned about in the story of Adam and Eve.



I couldn't agree more. And further more, nothing in my post suggests or implies that it was God's Fault at all. I think that if you would re-read my post, you would see that I never implied such a thing. Eve implied that it was God's fault for the talking snake HE created that she chose to listen to. Adam implied it was God's fault because of the woman God gave Him. Many of this world's preachers "who call Jesus Lord Lord", also imply it was God's fault for placing the talking snake in the garden, but not warning Adam and Eve about it.

But as you can see, God didn't blame Himself, therefore, it wasn't God's Fault.




It seems that Eve had the Words of God, and His warnings given to her husband, on her very lips. Are you saying it was Adam's fault because he didn't follow her around and make her obey? So then, under this philosophy, how is it not God's Fault that Adam disobeyed? Is God supposed to follow them around and make them obey the rules? And if they don't because God left them alone, what shall HE do? Kill Himself? Why then did God give them free will? Why not just create obedient servants, and make them live forever? I think you are missing the entire point of this story.

Who did God blame for Eve's Sin? Did HE Blame Adam? No, you can read this for yourself. And yet, you are. This is what I mean in my reply, this is what I hope people will consider, as I have come to consider. Who made you question God's Judgment here? Even teach against it? A talking snake? A fallen angel? Or did you, of your own free will, make the judgement according to the dictates of your own flesh?

I mean no offense here. I am caught in this same trap all the time. Paul was too. I don't want to make these judgments, as I'm sure you don't want to either. Nevertheless, you did, and so have I. Listen to what Paul said was the answer for this "body of death".

Rom. 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. ("a mortified flesh", look up the greek for this word)

Wasn't Eve created with the ability to do the same? What would have happened to the talking snake if she had just did what she knew God instructed her to do?

I hope instead of becoming angry with me, as so many do, you will consider instead how amazing and gracious the "Simplicity of Christ" is. It's a fascinating study, I hope you might engage in it, in the privacy of your home as you "Seek the Righteousness of God", as also instructed.



Yes, absolutely. "Wives' are supposed to "Submit themselves" to their husbands. The man is supposed to "Submit themselves" to the Christ. The Christ is supposed to "Submit Himself" to God. That is the Godly Hierarchy, Yes? Eve had so many weapons given to her in the garden. She could have and should have run to Adam when another voice, regardless of where it originated, approached her. She could have and should have cried out to God, "God help me, I don't want to question your judgment".

But if she refused to "Submit" to Adam's instruction concerning the tree, that she knew and repeated to the voice in her mind, then whose fault is that? Whose fault can it even be? She had everything she needed, God's Covering, God's Word, but she lacked the most important thing, belief in God. And this because of the lusts of her own flesh.

Is this not the lesson God intended for you and I to garner from this story?



Where does it say, "Wives submit to your husbands as long as they explain things to you in a manner you deem as sufficient", in which case she should listen to the worlds of another??

Where is it written for a man to "submit to Christ" but only to those things that go along with his fleshes desires, in which case we should take matters in our own hands?

Where is it written that the Christ should "submit to His Father" except in tough time, in which case HE should create His Own ways.

Remember what happened to Eve when she lived by her own opinion!

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

There is a lot of knowledge and wisdom to be gained from careful study of the first written example of a temptation and subsequent sin.

I truly hope you might take the time and study them for yourself.

Thanks for the reply.
the devil who is the very god of this world and its religions ( which you espouse ) has you exactly where he wants you denying his existence and holding you captive to do his will as per 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
 
@jeremiah1five
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15.

If Lucifer the archangel was involve in Jesus' temptation then Jesus was NOT tempted in all 'points' as we are and Saul is a liar as with Peter who claims the angels that sinned are 'locked up' awaiting judgment. They are all loose on the planet but I've never run into one. Have you?
Matthew 4 and Jesus' three temptations are the sum of all temptations according to the scriptures.

1st John 2:15​

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.”

These three avenues were all three use on Christ by the devil in Matthew 4, so in essence he was tempted in all points as we are.

Enough said to you on this subject, neither you or @ Studyman have taken scriptures given by me and prove them wrong, by using the the very ones I used, to give your understanding on them, and proving to me where I'm wrong, by refuting the emphasis I put on them, and until you both do that, then you really are doing nothing more than promoting your own doctrines.
 
@Studyman
You and Civic, have adopted a different philosophy from a different source and pretty much reject James and his Christ inspired explanation of the deceiving process first shown to us in the Adam and Eve story.
I will answer you long post in the morning, the Lord willing. But, in the meanwhile why have you not taken the many scriptures I have provided and deal with them to prove that they are misused by giving your understanding of each one, that's the way any debate/discussion is carried out in a manner which all can see your understanding on the scriptures being presented to expose your error. You cannot just keep saying the same thing over, expecting that you have done your job of teaching and defending the truth. One must take apart others understanding of certain scriptures being presented and prove that others are misusing the scriptures, which truly is the only way to prove one has the truth on the subject under consideration. This you have not even attempted to do as of yet.

Later....RB
 
the devil who is the very god of this world and its religions ( which you espouse ) has you exactly where he wants you denying his existence and holding you captive to do his will as per 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.

I know you can't help but feed your wicked flesh to exalt yourself Civic. Completely oblivious to the biblical fact that in your kingdom, in your world, in your temple, your flesh is your God.

Nevertheless, my hope is that when no one is looking, when you are not seeking the praise of men, you might consider that walking in the Flesh and serving satan is the exact same thing.
 
I know you can't help but feed your wicked flesh to exalt yourself Civic. Completely oblivious to the biblical fact that in your kingdom, in your world, in your temple, your flesh is your God.

Nevertheless, my hope is that when no one is looking, when you are not seeking the praise of men, you might consider that walking in the Flesh and serving satan is the exact same thing.
Projecting just like a NT Pharisee with their religiosity

In your world there is no Satan so who are you trying to fool ?
 
Projecting just like a NT Pharisee with their religiosity

In your world there is no Satan so who are you trying to fool ?
Yes, and these "pharisees" will keep their blinders on—that is, without eyes to see—and ultimately deceived, worshiping the Antichrist when he appears.

s e l a h
 
Yes, and these "pharisees" will keep their blinders on—that is, without eyes to see—and ultimately deceived, worshiping the Antichrist when he appears.

s e l a h
Ditto. He already has them eating out if the palm of his hand and have been blinded to that fact. Saran is fantasy to them which is exactly what he wants them to believe. They have no idea what spiritual warfare is according to Paul on Ephesians 6
 
@Studyman

I will answer you long post in the morning, the Lord willing. But, in the meanwhile why have you not taken the many scriptures I have provided

They are a distraction you use to move away from the Adam and Eve story, and the message God intended us to garner from it. I have learned over the years that if I let you, you will just keep moving the bar, misdirecting the discussion.

It is foolish to move away from the Adam and Eve story, which is the written testimony of the very first example of a human, being drawn away by their own fleshy lust and enticed, which resulted in sin.

To mortify the Flesh, means: to view (the flesh) as a corpse, i.e. (as) without life; to regard (but not "make") as dead, inoperative; to mortify, deprive of life or energizing power; (figuratively) to cut off (sever) "everything that energizes" (especially sin in Col 3:5).

Col. 3: 5 Mortify therefore your members (Your Flesh) which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake "the wrath of God" cometh on "the children of disobedience".

Even you, must surely accept that Adam and Eve were children of disobedience. That they did Not abide by the LAW God gave them, in His Mercy and Loving-kindness, "Thou shall not" to save them from destroying themselves with unfettered Free Will they were created with. Every being with Free Will must submit themselves to boundaries. God knows this, that is why HE gave them Laws before sending them into the garden.

Had Adam and Eve accepted and lived by God's Boundaries, "Thou shall not", like Jesus did from His youth, that is required for EVERY human being that has free will, she would not have listened to her Flesh, represented by a talking snake. Even God places boundaries on His Own Free will, discipline, Love, Compassion, forgiveness. These boundaries are called "Works of the Spirit". Your preaching that Adam and Eve wasn't created with the same flesh and the same boundaries as you or me is foolishness.

The Talking snake had no power over Eve at all, until she gave it power, just as the Flesh had no power over Eve, until she gave it power. When the Flesh is denied, the devil is denied. The Works of the Flesh and the works of the devil, are the same. If you walk in the works of the flesh, you shall die. If you walk in the works of the devil, you shall die. The Flesh of man is the prince of this world, the devil is the prince of this world.

You preach to others that they are not the same. You said, "The flesh", by implication, the "Works of the Flesh" never leave you, even if you "Mortify it", but the devil will leave you, if you mortify it. That is foolishness, and certainly not taught in scriptures.

Nevertheless, it is a popular religious philosophy promoted by the religions of this world.

I hope there is someone on this forum that might consider how great a responsibility it is to be created with Free will, and the necessity for boundaries to be in place until men learn how to wield it.
 
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