I don't "Always" place "everyone" on this forum in the same category as the "many" who Jesus specifically warned about. I compare specific doctrines and philosophies to what the scriptures actually say, and if they don't align with All of what is written, I point it out for discussion. If the person tries to deflect or redirect the discussion to shield the specific doctrines or philosophies from Scriptures, to preserve or protect them, this is a tactic used by deceivers throughout the Scriptures. Jesus speaks to this very thing in John 3.
You don't believe it more than I do, at least not based on your sermons. But I'm glad you understand this Truth. It is central to the Adam and Eve story, the very first example that Christ had written for our admonition, detailing the first temptation and sin of mankind. It is the reason why I posted on this thread in the first place.
James, inspired by the Spirit of Christ, understood how Eve was deceived, and by the Mercy of Christ, detailed for us how every human is tempted, and how the temptation becomes a sin.
You and Civic, have adopted a different philosophy from a different source and pretty reject James and his Christ inspired explanation of the deceiving process first shown to us in the Adam and Eve story.
Choosing instead, to promote an ancient Catholic philosophy that places the blame of Eves sin, on a talking snake. Clearly God didn't hold the same philosophy, according to what is actually written.
I am hoping for an honest discussion instead of just preserving and protecting a popular religious philosophy promoted by "Many" who Jesus Himself specifically warned against. And if I am proven wrong, the "Word of God" will expose it, and I can be corrected and renewed in the spirit of my own mind. So please this time, actually consider my posts, as I consider yours.
We agree that God created Adam and Eve with free will and the ability to "Act" accordingly, Yes? If you don't believe this, please let me know.
But if Adam and Eve were, it is an absolute, undeniable truth about "Free will", that there must be some form of boundary for those who have it, until they learn how to wield it. It is one thing if a man is alone on an island, his free will choices only affect him, will only in the end, if unchecked, uncontrolled, destroy him. But Adam and Eve were not alone, in fact, they were commanded to multiply, to become "many". So God knows all of this, Yes?
So HE gave them boundaries which is an absolute necessity of free will. In essence HE said, "You have free will" and there is a great freedom in that,
BUT, your free will must not cause harm or danger to yourself or others. So I'm going to give you some guidelines, because the greatest enemy of all, the most deceitful, subtle, dangerous and wicked creation of all my creation, is a mortal human with free will, but with no boundaries or limitations. In other words, "The heart of man is deceitful
above all things, and desperately wicked" with the capacity to cause great harm to others. Therefore a man needs to "Yield Himself" to Gods instruction in righteousness, not their own, until they grow in the knowledge of God, and learn from HIM how to live with free will.
So God gave them boundaries, "Thou shall Not", knowing full well their "free will",
their own flesh, would inevitably challenge the boundaries, by virtue of their very creation "with free will". (But I want that, I desire that, I need that) And if unchecked these "Fleshy thoughts" would become deeds, and the deeds would bring about death and destruction. Not only for themselves, but their entire world.
Just as God, whose image they were created after, with all power and free will, if unchecked by Discipline, Love, Compassion and forgiveness, would cause the destruction of everything good, would create chaos, wickedness and the corruption of everything.
Therefore, He gave them some Armor, a "Sword" so to speak, to keep their free will in check until they "Learned obedience". Learned to choose Gods Word above all other voices, imaginations, and thoughts that a free will human would, by the very nature of their creation, have.
And this was the perfect human. It is good that a creation with free will would accept that they needed guidance to survive, because unchecked, their free will would destroy them. Unchecked, their free will would become their greatest Enemy, and the enemy of all others around them. But with God's instruction in righteousness, a human with free will could become a light, a benefit, a help to all others. Jesus is the perfect demonstration of this in my view. Jesus is a personal being with a mind, emotions and a will of His Own. And yet, HE sacrificed His Own will, to do the Will of His Father, and my Father until HE learned Love Righteousness and Hate wickedness, or as the Prophets teach;
Is. 7:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to "refuse" the evil, and "choose" the good. (Free Will choice)
This is why God only warned Adam and Eve of a danger that comes
from within. And not a danger that comes from without.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good "and evil", thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof "thou shalt surely die".
Where would the thought come from, to reject this guideline from God? Would it not come from "within" a free will? Where is the warning of a "devil", or a talking snake that forces itself into the minds of men here?
To believe you and Civic and the Catholic religion, I would have to believe that God forgot, or simply refused to warn her about, what you and Civic, and the Catholic religion promote as the greatest Danger ever created, a danger
"from Without". That God sent Eve into the world with, as Civic Preaches, a talking snake
"who is a personal being, with a mind, emotions, and a will".
with no warning that even such a creature,
that you claim is the root cause of all this world's pain, misery and destruction,
even existed.
According to you guys, Christ sent Eve there with no warning of this danger at all.
Think about that Red, if your flesh will allow.
And then, when she was deceived by this talking snake that God didn't warn her about, God punished her with a very harsh punishment. But not just her, her children as well, and me and my children and every human in between.
No Red, I will not partake with you, in such a wicked implication and judgment against God. The unchecked flesh of man, is the only place the "adversary" AKA the "devil" exists. If the Flesh is crucified, ruled over,
and it's deeds mortified, "
to view as a corpse, i.e. without life;
to regard (but not "make")
as dead, inoperative; to mortify, deprive of life or energizing power; (figuratively) to cut off (sever) "
satan can not exist. It has no power outside of the unchecked Flesh of a human mind. Had Eve simply ruled over her fleshy desire to eat that which God forbid her to eat, by bringing it into subjection of the Boundaries God gave her,
there is no sin.
To mortify the flesh "IS" resisting the Devil.
Remember, we have fed our flesh with it's itching ears and fleshy desires for years. It is become a monster. When we turn to God, the new man, the Caleb in us will say, "
Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it." But the Carnal Fleshy thoughts we have protected, preserved and fed for years will say:
"We be not able to go up against the old self; for he is stronger than us".
This is all connected, all written for those true worshippers God is Seeking. Men with free will, who "Offer themselves" to Him. "Yield themselves" to Him, "Submit themselves" to Him
of their own free will.
No Red, you guys are promoting ancient catholic philosophies designed to keep ones eyes and attention on things from without, not things from within. Being convinced through the lust of their flesh, and itchy ears, that nothing from within you, can defile you. A voice from within that "
says unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you".
2 Tim. 4:
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
And this has been warned about in the Prophets as well.
Is. 30:
8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
You and Civic can live by the excuse, "The devil made me do it", like Adam and Eve did if you want, and truly it is the way of the world.
But I don't believe that is the message God wanted me to garner from the Parables of the talking snake.