It would not be much of a message of faith if it were only a pretend story. Also, whoever said Satan was one of the sons of God? Whatever the sons of God means, I do not think one would be named Satan.
Satan and his Lies
- Thread starter mikesw
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civic
Active Member
Satan is mentioned 7 times below
Job 1:6-12
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.
10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD
Maybe I was not clear. My point was that sons of God would have nicer names, like Mike. So Satan would not be a likely name for a son of God. He would be a different creature.
I meant to type: "Again I do preach that, I just do "not" preach that those thoughts and deeds from our wicked heart ARE "Satan/evil spirits" as you claim, and then deny and reject that the devil is a real fallen angel, and that there are no angels, spirits.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
According to Isaiah, Peter, and Jude they are.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:15.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6.
And my studies show they were locked up awaiting judgment BEFRORE God created man.
When Jesus was tested in the desert Jesus was tested and there is only ONE WAY a person is tested.
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14.
The word "lust" is the Greek word meaning "longing." After forty days Jesus was hungered. He longed to eat something. There is NO SIN in this. It is a natural function when one is hungry.
Jesus' temptation came from within NOT from without (Lucifer - who was already locked up.)
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The text says nothing of earth.
But it does speak of pit.
And whether they were cast to earth or pit they still remain locked up awaiting judgment.
Man is upon this earth and God already destroyed it because the "thoughts of his heart were on evil always."
This is recorded in Genesis 6 and by this time, as I said, the angels that sinned were locked up BEFORE God created man.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
You are fooled.
The word "Nephal" in Genesis 6 means, "tyrant" and "bully." And these offspring of the sons of God of Sethian birth and daughters of women show the devastating results of Godly sons and daughters being unequally yoked with unbelievers.
These children of the unequally yoked grew up lawless and they were bullies and tyrants no restricted by God's Law.
It is impossible for one species created by God to have offspring with a different species of creation.
First, Peter says the angels that sinned were locked up awaiting judgment (2 Peter 2:4.)
Next, it is impossible - even if the angels were loose on the earth - for these spirit beings to join in HOLY matrimony with women who live in the natural realm to give birth to offspring with cross breeds.
Next, spirit (you can't see) cannot mate with the material women. Also, it is impossible even if it happened because they are not having offspring "after their kind." The order of offspring was ordained of God and it cannot change. Dogs mate with dogs and have dogs "after their kind." Horses mate with horses and give birth to horses "after their kind." It is impossible for a cat to mate with a dog and have what? Cat-dog? Dog-cat? This is NOT "after their kind." Neither can angels mate with women since they don't have genitals, nor do they have sperm, because God did not create angels as spirit-beings of fire with penises since there are no female angels.
You are believing a spectacular lie. You need to study these things because you believe in spectacular and impossible teaching. Stop giving the textbook response and study under the anointing and ask, seek, and knock. and maybe God reveal the truth on this subject.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The word "Satan" means "adversary." The flesh is adversary of God. It is an adversary to Peter. Besides the word "Satan" was used once to identify a man in the Old Testament.
You need to do some original thinking and get away from other people's bible studies and textbook answers.
That's why there are those that oppose me and my beliefs, because I don't give the textbook answer. I used to when I was a neophyte, a baby in Christ. Me, the KJV, and the Holy Spirit study things in Scripture and go beyond the textbook answer. I used to also give textbook answers many years ago. But I put away childish things and study under the anointing on my own and see the practical, the reasonable, and the true.
It is our flesh that accuses us. But it doesn't do that with a mouth. It does that merely because it exists as part of our body.
Peter says, "THE ANGELS THAT SINNED..."
The angels that didn't sin remained with God.
There is no "the devil made me do it." That's a cop out. An excuse. If we blame someone else for our sin, then what? If my answer to God on the last day is, "the devil made me do it" then God cannot judge me. And that is stupid. All people stand or fall on their own. There is no third party to consider when I am judged by God on the last day. That's just stupid.
If you are a true believer who is possessed of the Holy Spirit, then study these things on your own. Use your head. Try original thinking. Don't be lazy and give me the textbook answer.
While I do agree with you on Genesis 6, yet you are wrong concerning angels that sinned were locked up before God created man.
They were very active during Christ time on earth, and even said to him:
Matthew 8:29
“And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?”The answer is no. As I said to you a couple of weeks ago concerning 2nd Peter 2;
2nd Peter 2:4
"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned"~By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.
"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.
"but cast them down to hell"~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment~for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angles themselves:
Matthew 8:29
"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"
They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke. That day has NOT come as of yet.
Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:
"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness~which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~
"to be reserved unto judgment"~And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.
So, Jeremiah, you sir are wrong, they still roam free, in spite of what you believe and what @Studyman who believes and teaches that there are no such things as spirits/fallen angles/the devil. He's under a more powerful darkness than you are.
My personal belief is this: I believe angles and man sinned the same minute, when God left each of them to their own power, without Him keeping them in the state in which they both were created in. God alone is immutable, and cannot not be tempted to sin, angels and man can be since they are created being.
Some one needs to start a thread on angles, would be a good study.
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@jeremiah1five
Are you saying that Jesus had thoughts within his heart of whether or not he was the Son of God? That's impossible, for that would have been a sin, a weakness on his part, which that never happened, no not for one second! It was the devil himself that was tempting him to tempt God!
Now, THINK....can a man's heart which some say is the devil, actually has the power to give us anything? This is the prince of this world offering Jesus greatness if he only would fall down and worship him, which many have done, actually all are doing even now, who have given their souls over to him just to enjoy the things Mystery Babylon is offering them to serve its purposes.
These temptation did not come from within Jesus, those would have been a sin to even desire such things, desire is conceiving, all it has to do is make a way to fulfill those wicked lust. Jesus never had a lustful sinful thought, never. The only lust that drove him was teh will God, in thoughts, words and deeds.
Being hungry was not Jesus' only temptation.
Matthew 4:5
“Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."Are you saying that Jesus had thoughts within his heart of whether or not he was the Son of God? That's impossible, for that would have been a sin, a weakness on his part, which that never happened, no not for one second! It was the devil himself that was tempting him to tempt God!
Matthew 4:8
“Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.”Now, THINK....can a man's heart which some say is the devil, actually has the power to give us anything? This is the prince of this world offering Jesus greatness if he only would fall down and worship him, which many have done, actually all are doing even now, who have given their souls over to him just to enjoy the things Mystery Babylon is offering them to serve its purposes.
These temptation did not come from within Jesus, those would have been a sin to even desire such things, desire is conceiving, all it has to do is make a way to fulfill those wicked lust. Jesus never had a lustful sinful thought, never. The only lust that drove him was teh will God, in thoughts, words and deeds.
James 1:14
“But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”Then you need to continue searching and studying. If in all sincerity, then may God grant you more understanding, and light.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Spiritualizing what is not spiritual. These two men had mental issues. It was these two who were talking and not any "demons" or "devils." When they asked to go into the swine their radical mental behavior spooked the herd and they left out the wrong way and down a steep place. Whoever these men were they did not belong in the tombs. If they were Hebrew they definitely did not belong in the tombs. These two men had mental issues. Look at it in the practical.
If these angels sinned, then they were sinners. Sin comes from sinners. Sin does not come from holy. As with man they were created sinful. There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, He gives His glory (sinlessness, holiness) to NO ONE.
God keeps the angels that did not sin restrained by the power of His might. But to say angels were created holy, sinless, or righteous is to violate Isaiah's words that God does not give any aspect of His nature or His glory to anyone. It is impossible to do. Can you give any aspect of your nature to anyone?
No, it is a grave or as the word states, a pit. Such a place is total darkness.
It was the men who talked. As far as "evil spirits" go these are attitudes. Evil attitudes. You can't see attitudes, but you can feel them. Ever walk into a room and feel oppression, a heaviness? Someone in that room has strong attitudes and you will know who by looking into their countenances.
It is you who want to spiritualize these two men in the tombs. It is the way you interpret these verses. Where in Scripture is it recorded Jesus healed mental conditions? All you got to do is look and they are there. But you and others want to spiritualize the practical. I keep it simple.
Yes, but some will only post textbook answers. Who wants to read regurgitated other people's bible studies.
Lucifer was in first heaven guarding the throne of God in or near what is now Jerusalem, the Mount of God. Lucifer wanted to leave his (first) estate and ascend into second heaven where the stars are. But as soon as the thought to do so entered his mind he was cast down to the pit. Have you ever wondered why one-third of angels were found with sin in their thoughts?
Obadiah
Active Member
When God made the first man, Adam, in the garden of Eden, He gave him inherent authority. This authority was connected to its heavenly source: Almighty God. As long as Adam was in right standing with his heavenly Father, everything in the garden was made subject to him.
As a result of man’s disobedience against God, mankind forfeited his legal right to rule and reign on the earth. In a single moment, humankind came under the jurisdiction of Satan, and chaos and disorder ensued. Consequently, mankind was made subject to sickness, oppression, fear, and even death. Adam’s sin opened the door to spiritual darkness. This is the reason why evil is so pervasive across the globe today! The good news is that, two thousand years ago, God came to the earth as a Man, suffered on a cross, died, and rose again in order to defeat the devil. By His sacrificial act, He took back from Satan the authority that He had originally granted to the sons of men.
When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we take it back. We now have authority over Satan.
As a result of man’s disobedience against God, mankind forfeited his legal right to rule and reign on the earth. In a single moment, humankind came under the jurisdiction of Satan, and chaos and disorder ensued. Consequently, mankind was made subject to sickness, oppression, fear, and even death. Adam’s sin opened the door to spiritual darkness. This is the reason why evil is so pervasive across the globe today! The good news is that, two thousand years ago, God came to the earth as a Man, suffered on a cross, died, and rose again in order to defeat the devil. By His sacrificial act, He took back from Satan the authority that He had originally granted to the sons of men.
When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we take it back. We now have authority over Satan.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Peter states the angels that sinned were cast down to the pit, restricted in chains of darkness awaiting judgment.
This took place before God created man.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.
The angels that sinned are locked up. They can't interact with man.
Obadiah
Active Member
“Evil spirits also have access to our brains. They can tempt us by introducing thoughts into our minds. Satan even did that with Jesus. Demons went much further than that with the Gadarene demoniac.”
In 1 Timothy 4:1, we are expressly warned about demonic deception through false teachings.
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Timothy 4:1
In 1 Timothy 4:1, we are expressly warned about demonic deception through false teachings.
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Timothy 4:1
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Are you a preterist or partial?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
What do you do when you come across Scripture that seems to contradict themselves?
Peter says the angels that sinned are "locked up."
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.
Choose the one that supports your personal belief? Or do you need to study further to resolve the seeming contradiction.
Is Peter lying?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I am Biblical.
@jeremiah1five
You said: "These two men had mental issues." They had a serious mental problem for sure, they had company living IN THEM, using their bodies for their evil deeds of darkness.
You said: "It was these two who were talking and not any "demons" or "devils" Really? you are dead wrong Jeremiah. Listen very carefully, you and @Studman:
You are going against plain scriptures. After the devils went out, we read:
You and @Studyman has serious problems with scriptures. They go against what you both believe and teach.
Enough for now.
Who are you talking to? Surely not me. I'm reading exactly what the scriptures said, not adding, or talking ways, and certainly not spiritualizing these scriptures. But you are flat our denying plain scriptures to protect your false teaching that there are no spirits/evil angels, still in this world today.
You said: "These two men had mental issues." They had a serious mental problem for sure, they had company living IN THEM, using their bodies for their evil deeds of darkness.
You said: "It was these two who were talking and not any "demons" or "devils" Really? you are dead wrong Jeremiah. Listen very carefully, you and @Studman:
Matthew 8:31
“So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.”Matthew 8:32
“And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.”You are going against plain scriptures. After the devils went out, we read:
Luke 8:38
“Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying, Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.”You and @Studyman has serious problems with scriptures. They go against what you both believe and teach.
What we do as far as looking at the scriptures means very little, what does the word of God clearly say and teach is what we must submit to and believe, or else be in error.
Jeremiah, you are so unlearned. Sin came from both angels and man when God left them to themselves without Him protecting them from falling. If you believe man was created sinful, then their sin was God's fault, not their. But, both were created upright after God's image, but God did not secured their state, and neither was He under obligation to do so! He did for many of the angels by His free election of them. others He did not.
Enough for now.
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
LOL. A safe reply. So are the preterists I know and they could run rings around you with their spot on scriptures .
