Romans - Outside In

S

Swordman

Member
If anyone is interested, I am going to be teaching Romans starting in October at my church (Lansdowne Alliance Church in Maryland). This will be an open discussion with the purpose of teaching basic hermeneutics. The goal is to rethink how we approach Paul's letters and to try to "hear" the letter in a way that would be similar to how the first audience heard it. I use the term "hear" because that is the way the first audience encountered the letter.

We are planning to put this online, with interaction via chat. Cheat sheets and work sheets will be supplied and we plan on posting short lectures on various topics.

We are breaking the larger course down into four parts of six to eight sessions each. We will be covering the first part of Romans with a survey of the letter and chapters 1-3 (maybe 4 also, but it might be hard to fit it into six weeks). The goal of this first round is to understand how context affects interpretation.

We will follow up next year with part 2 (Romans 4-8 in the spring) and part 3 (Romans 9-11 in the fall), with the final part (Romans 12-16) in early 2025. In each part, we will discuss issues that may affect interpretation.

This is oriented towards the church (any church) and is open to all who want to participate. I have already had a few people who have asked that we put this online, so we are planning on doing that. It is free, if that is a question.

I am not sure whether I am allowed to post this here, but given the importance of Romans in the discussion of this group, I wanted to offer it up. We also will post this on Facebook and elsewhere. Updates will be on Facebook.
 
I'll give my opinion. If you can get the first chapter of Romans 1 right, the remainder will fit perfectly into the proper perspective. Paul begins with the necessity of the Gospel and how the "first men" dealt with the knowledge of God they received. Sin is progressive. Proverbs speaks of how sin begins as a "coal". A "spark" if you would. That spark left burning becomes a raging fire that consumes everything.

Man still does not like to retain the knowledge of God in their minds. It has happened over and over again throughout human history.
 
Swordman said:
If anyone is interested, I am going to be teaching Romans starting in October at my church (Lansdowne Alliance Church in Maryland). This will be an open discussion with the purpose of teaching basic hermeneutics. The goal is to rethink how we approach Paul's letters and to try to "hear" the letter in a way that would be similar to how the first audience heard it. I use the term "hear" because that is the way the first audience encountered the letter.

We are planning to put this online, with interaction via chat. Cheat sheets and work sheets will be supplied and we plan on posting short lectures on various topics.

We are breaking the larger course down into four parts of six to eight sessions each. We will be covering the first part of Romans with a survey of the letter and chapters 1-3 (maybe 4 also, but it might be hard to fit it into six weeks). The goal of this first round is to understand how context affects interpretation.

We will follow up next year with part 2 (Romans 4-8 in the spring) and part 3 (Romans 9-11 in the fall), with the final part (Romans 12-16) in early 2025. In each part, we will discuss issues that may affect interpretation.

This is oriented towards the church (any church) and is open to all who want to participate. I have already had a few people who have asked that we put this online, so we are planning on doing that. It is free, if that is a question.

I am not sure whether I am allowed to post this here, but given the importance of Romans in the discussion of this group, I wanted to offer it up. We also will post this on Facebook and elsewhere. Updates will be on Facebook.
Click to expand...
I would be interested. :)
 
If it helps, the six sessions will be approached as follows:
  1. The Big Picture: Reading or Hearing the text as a whole. A study in survey of the letter.
  2. Reading as a letter: Genre and the author/audience (Rom. 1:1-17)
  3. When in Rome: Factors from the Roman Cultural Context that affect the interpretation (Rom. 1:18-32)
  4. Hear, O Israel: The Jewish Context and the Rhetorical Situation (Rom. 2)
  5. Intertextuality and the Interlocutor: How Paul is using his own (Jewish) scriptures (Romans 3)
  6. So what?: Application into our own context.
That is the basic approach to this first round. It may change a bit as we progress and extend a few weeks depending on how far we get.
 
Swordman said:
If it helps, the six sessions will be approached as follows:
  1. The Big Picture: Reading or Hearing the text as a whole. A study in survey of the letter.
  2. Reading as a letter: Genre and the author/audience (Rom. 1:1-17)
  3. When in Rome: Factors from the Roman Cultural Context that affect the interpretation (Rom. 1:18-32)
  4. Hear, O Israel: The Jewish Context and the Rhetorical Situation (Rom. 2)
  5. Intertextuality and the Interlocutor: How Paul is using his own (Jewish) scriptures (Romans 3)
  6. So what?: Application into our own context.
That is the basic approach to this first round. It may change a bit as we progress and extend a few weeks depending on how far we get.
Click to expand...

There is no #3. Paul had long preached his Gospel to the Gentile world. There is not "added" context relative to Rome.

The context is clear....

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world
Those who preach such context to Rome seek to exclude the revelation of the Gospel humanity from the beginning. There are various reasons for this but the primary reason is always the same. Man prefers to see himself "special" to exclusion of others just like him.

Paul was simply preaching his Gospel to those who had never heard it before. The Gospel hasn't changed. There is only ONE Gospel. One. It is born from the Character of God. If the Gospel changes, then God changes.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

It is why Paul almost immediate invokes an appeal to the laws of conscience/consciousness born out of breath of God providing a "natural" sense of everything.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

It is interesting that in English is generally consider fact that conscience and conscious are two different aspects of human existence. They're not. Within every human being there is a sense/feeling of the Divine.

I was watching Eric Weinstein the other day and I so wished to have a conversation with him. Eric Weinstein is a self confessed Atheist. I haven't studied Eric for long but he is the brother of Bret Weinstein. They are both Jewish and are extraordinary talents. Eric has a theory of "everything" relative to "connecting".

Conscience is where we "connect". Not only with God but with each other. We all have this "voice" of consciousness. A means by which to discern our environment.

I say "we all". That is not entirely accurate. There are some people in this world that have "seared" their consciousness and with great effort..... sought to distance themselves from realty. Evil people feel pain and condemnation as they get closer to God as they learn of their surroundings. They "imagine" vain things. They attribute awareness to idols and demons.

Rome isn't the first to deny this. Mankind has long sought to "forget God".

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
 
Next week we are going to do an introductory video to discuss the class that begins on October 17 (beginning at 7:00 PM EST on Thursdays). I will post a link later for the video.

The sessions will be held at Lansdowne Alliance Church (Baltimore MD) if anyone is interested in attending in person.

As a note, if you plan to attend the sessions, there is a pre-class survey I would appreciate you filling out. You can do it anonymously. This is for my thesis research, so you would be helping me out. I will post a link for that as well.

It is optional, so do not feel obligated.
 
Last edited:
Swordman said:
Next week we are going to do an introductory video to discuss the class that begins on October 17 (beginning at 7:00 PM EST on Thursdays). I will post a link later for the video.

The sessions will be held at Lansdowne Alliance Church (Baltimore MD) if anyone is interested in attending in person.

As a note, if you plan to attend the sessions, there is a pre-class survey I would appreciate you filling out. You can do it anonymously. This is for my thesis research, so you would be helping me out. I will post a link for that as well.

It is optional, so do not feel obligated.
Click to expand...
So you're teaching when you should be taught yourself?

It is obvious to me that you will not allow free speech on the topic. Will you control the narrative or allow challenges to your absolutes?
 
praise_yeshua said:
So you're teaching when you should be taught yourself?

It is obvious to me that you will not allow free speech on the topic. Will you control the narrative or allow challenges to your absolutes?
Click to expand...
What do you think my "absolutes" are?

There is a worksheet for each session. It is not a debate, but people are allowed to ask questions. In fact, the online portion will involve some dialogue for those who attend in person and people can post questions in the online portion.

In addition, I believe the church is setting up an online forum for this to allow dialogue between participants before and after each session.

Oh, and I have been taught. I am not sure what you mean by that.

We will only cover the first 3 to 4 chapters in Romans for this round. We will get to the next section (rom. 5-8) in 2025.

If you are interested in Rom 9-11, that will probably be either in the Fall of 2025 or early 2026.

Just so you understand, we are using Romans as a case study in hermeneutics.
 
Last edited:
Swordman said:
What do you think my "absolutes" are?

There is a worksheet for each session. It is not a debate, but people are allowed to ask questions. In fact, the online portion will involve some dialogue for those who attend in person and people can post questions in the online portion.

In addition, I believe the church is setting up an online forum for this to allow dialogue between participants before and after each session.

Oh, and I have been taught. I am not sure what you mean by that.

We will only cover the first 3 to 4 chapters in Romans for this round. We will get to the next section (rom. 5-8) in 2025.

If you are interested in Rom 9-11, that will probably be either in the Fall of 2025 or early 2026.

Just so you understand, we are using Romans as a case study in hermeneutics.
Click to expand...
It is my experience that men hardly ever act against their own self interest. It is also my experience that once a man establishes his doctrinal position publically among peers, they will hardly ever change. Pride in the illusion that "God's men" are always doctrinally perfect in their theology is both very dangerous and very common.

Surprise me. Allow things to go where they need/should in what you've chosen for you and those you mentor.

To God be the Glory.
 
praise_yeshua said:
It is my experience that men hardly ever act against their own self interest. It is also my experience that once a man establishes his doctrinal position publically among peers, they will hardly ever change. Pride in the illusion that "God's men" are always doctrinally perfect in their theology is both very dangerous and very common.

Surprise me. Allow things to go where they need/should in what you've chosen for you and those you mentor.

To God be the Glory.
Click to expand...
ok.

I think you may misunderstand my intention with this class. While the case study is Romans, the class is about how we interpret scripture. We will be focused on the letter as an example, but my goal is to give people a set of tools that can be applicable anywhere. We will look at the text "from the outside in."

This will only take about 6 to 8 weeks, so there is no way we will be doing a deep-dive into doctrine. We will get into the details more next year in the subsequent lessons.

Do I think my doctrine is perfect? μὴ γένοιτο·

While I have taught theology in the past, my focus has always been on exegesis. That is why when people want to debate theology with me, I only agree to debating about the meaning of a text, not systematic theology.

This is not about doctrine, it is about exegesis in context. That is, it is a class on how to read in context.

Will you hear my views? Absolutely.

Unlike Philip Melanchthon, I do not believe Romans is a “compendium of Christian doctrine.” I believe it is situational and should be read that way. Otherwise, we miss the point of the text.

Do I have some self-interest? Absolutely. This is part of a project I am doing for Northern Seminary as well as for Lansdowne Alliance Church (LAC). That is why there is a survey before and after the class to get some insight as to whether this has any impact. The Northern portion of this project is just this part, a bit of an experiment to translate what we do in the seminary to the church. The LAC part will be on-going and may involve others beside myself. We know a new generation of church leaders is coming and we want to provide the tools to them for good interpretation of the Bible and leadership in the church.
 
Last edited:
Swordman said:
ok.

I think you may misunderstand my intention with this class. While the case study is Romans, the class is about how we interpret scripture. We will be focused on the letter as an example, but my goal is to give people a set of tools that can be applicable anywhere. We will look at the text "from the outside in."

This will only take about 6 to 8 weeks, so there is no way we will be doing a deep-dive into doctrine. We will get into the details more next year in the subsequent lessons.

Do I think my doctrine is perfect? μὴ γένοιτο·

While I have taught theology in the past, my focus has always been on exegesis. That is why when people want to debate theology with me, I only agree to debating about the meaning of a text, not systematic theology.

This is not about doctrine, it is about exegesis in context. That is, it is a class on how to read in context.

Will you hear my views? Absolutely.

Unlike Philip Melanchthon, I do not believe Romans is a “compendium of Christian doctrine.” I believe it is situational and should be read that way. Otherwise, we miss the point of the text.

Do I have some self-interest? Absolutely. This is part of a project I am doing for Northern Seminary as well as for Lansdowne Alliance Church (LAC). That is why there is a survey before and after the class to get some insight as to whether this has any impact. The Northern portion of this project is just this part, a bit of an experiment to translate what we do in the seminary to the church. The LAC part will be on-going and may involve others beside myself. We know a new generation of church leaders is coming and we want to provide the tools to them for good interpretation of the Bible and leadership in the church.
Click to expand...
I like the fact that you put the accent on the meaning of a text and not on systematic theology. Looking forward to your on line material.
 
synergy said:
I like the fact that you put the accent on the meaning of a text and not on systematic theology. Looking forward to your on line material.
Click to expand...
Ditto as we have a tendency on forums to debate different theological positions. I like the ideas with the text. I was taught that in my mid 20’s by our pastor and next door neighbor who taught NT Greek at FTS. I was his student for 2 years one in one.
 

Similar threads

S
Romans - Outside In
2 3 4
Replies
72
Views
784
mikesw
M
jeremiah1five
ROMANS: To All That Be In Rome Beloved of God
Replies
6
Views
58
jeremiah1five
jeremiah1five
brightfame52
Calvinism is Gospel !
4 5 6
Replies
118
Views
1K
synergy
S
Rockson
John 14:23 The Proper Order
2
Replies
21
Views
115
Presby02
P
koberstein
Six Pots At The Wedding In Cana
Replies
0
Views
146
koberstein
koberstein
Back
Top Bottom