Righteousness by nature

[Behold]

Doug is correct in his claim.

God does not cause anyone to Believe.

What God does is use His Holy Spirit to reveal the TRUTH to a hearer (Faith comes by hearing) the Gospel.
The HS reveals this to a person, and they decide what they do with this Revealed Truth.

 

[TomL]

God does not cause anyone to Believe.

What God does is use His Holy Spirit to reveal the TRUTH to a hearer (Faith comes by hearing) the Gospel.
The HS reveals this to a person, and they decide what they do with this Revealed Truth.

Doug was not saying that he causes one to have saving faith

 

[Behold]

We must be very careful when we take a biblical phrase or term and use it to explain something very different from the original usage.

False innuendo.

 

[Behold]

Doug was not saying that he causes one to have saving faith

Every single person has a "measure of faith".

THis is why PEOPLE can believe in ISLAM, and Muhammed, and UFO's, and Mary Baker Eddy, and L.Ron Hubbard.

This is why millions believe in reincarnation.

See all that?

That is the "measure of faith" that is in every one of us....and how we use that, determines where we end up after we die.

 

[TomL]

And you are the very person who needs to obey that verse @TibiasDad .

Start today.

Doug is a pastor and a thoughtful poster. Don't sell him short as He is deserving of respect

 

[TomL]

Every single person has a "measure of faith".

THis is why PEOPLE can believe in ISLAM, and Muhammed, and UFO's, and Mary Baker Eddy, and L.Ron Hubbard.

This is why millions believe in reincarnation.

See all that?

That is the "measure of faith" that is in every one of us....and how we use that, determines where we end up after we die.

Except the context is not addressing saving faith.

Romans 12:3–8 (KJV 1900) — 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

which concerns ministry gifts

That is Doug's point

 

[Behold]

which concerns ministry gifts

That is Doug's point

Not just "gifts"..... but also the "offices", and also "every person" as not every person has an "office", but they all have a measure of faith.
They have this also, before they are Saved.

So, its fine if "the measure of faith" is taught as "all have it", unbelievers included, and as related to the born again, its regarding service.

Where this gets abused, is when this verse, chapter, is used to teach that "that includes why you believe" as God caused that....

See that? /that is Calvinism or Tulip...

 

[Behold]

Except the context is not addressing saving faith.

Yes, saving faith is in the "hearing" of the unbeliever.

And that is their measure of faith.

This is why an unbeliever can believe whatever they want to believe in, as that measure of faith is in everyone.

Is it the same as "God's call to service or God enduement of power for servicer ".. Is it a spiritual gift?

No.

 

[TibiasDad]

And you are the very person who needs to obey that verse @TibiasDad .

Start today.

Ad homs do not an argument make!

Doug

 

[Behold]

Ad homs do not an argument make!

Doug

I didnt post an argument, regarding that post.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes, saving faith is in the "hearing" of the unbeliever.

And that is their measure of faith.

This is why an unbeliever can believe whatever they want to believe in, as that measure of faith is in everyone.

Is it the same as "God's call to service or God enduement of power for servicer ".. Is it a spiritual gift?

No.

The capacity to believe, to place our trust in God’s promises, is very different from “a measure of faith”. Our capacity for believing in something is part of our nature, the image of God in which we were created. We will believe in God or in something else.

It is not a spiritual gift, per se, nor is it “a measure” in which one person has more than another. We all have the same natural capacity, indeed, the need, to believe in something.

Doug

 

[civic]

I think Grace is only a valid term in response to a moral failure. There is no need of grace prior to sin.

Doug

You would agree that the gospel is Gods means of grace to all the world that precedes faith right ?

 

[TibiasDad]

You would agree that the gospel is Gods means of grace to all the world that precedes faith right ?

Absolutely.

Doug

 

[Behold]

The capacity to believe, to place our trust in God’s promises, is very different from “a measure of faith”.

YOU are able to BELIEVE in whatever you choose to believe in..

Because you have innate faith, which is a measure.

So, all humans have this, just like they have free will..

Had they no measure of faith, then they could not be DECEIVED, through it.

It is not a spiritual gift, per se, nor is it “a measure” in which one person has more than another.

Im not posted that anyone has more faith, or less faith.

I said that all HAVE it... as a measure., and if they didnt, then they can't TRUST, as faith is TRUST.


Now, there is ALSO, that which God gives per person, who is born again.,

 

[TibiasDad]

YOU are able to BELIEVE in whatever you choose to believe in..

Because you have innate faith, which is a measure.

So, all humans have this, just like they have free will..

Had they no measure of faith, then they could not be DECEIVED, through it.



Im not posted that anyone has more faith, or less faith.

I said that all HAVE it... as a measure., and if they didnt, then they can't TRUST, as faith is TRUST.


Now, there is ALSO, that which God gives per person, who is born again.,

Fair enough, no need to carry on on this point.

Doug

 

[Behold]

Fair enough, no need to carry on on this point.

Doug

-Shalom

 

[TedT]

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Since the law brings only death, Rom 7:10, is this not suggesting that they are self condemned by their own rules?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Since the law brings only death, Rom 7:10, is this not suggesting that they are self condemned by their own rules?

Good question! I like your questions.

It does but that isn't the only "thing" we can discern from what is written.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Man is proven guilty by many means.

1. By the witness of Creation.
2. By the witness from Consequence.
3. By the Gospel

This is enlightenment necessary for salvation.

All of these are natural.

I believe you are mistaken. I ask that you reconsider your position that enlightenment can only come "directly from the hand of God" some time within the life of an individual.

1. Man can live his entire life without God and still recognize a Creator without any need for a defined set of laws.
2. Man can reason such information from his own intellect and Consequence.
3. The Gospel is necessary to know the "WHO/WHAT" of salvation. It takes men of faith to pass the understanding of their faith along to other men. We do this by preaching the simplicity of Christ in words easily understood and consumed by the language we naturally speak.

I'm going to be honest with you. I find it very rare for anyone to do the work I just did above to create a layout of salvation relative to our understanding. "Calvinism" just "skims" the surface with the defensive method of "deny deny deny deny deny".

If you will take this approach with me, I believe it will change your life.