Righteousness by nature

[Behold]

Deception on your part. You haven't replaced Christ and you're not an apostle.

Ive not tried to replace Christ.

He's the only ONE.

He is the word of Truth, and He IS the Truth....

You have no authority nor rank to express any sense of power over another.

Can you explain that so that other humans can understand what you are trying to explain?

I said that Jesus is the Light, and the Born again are Children of the Light.

That is not "power over another"... that is just the fact of becoming a "new Creation, in Christ".

How do you put off light when you are in the Light?

Have you ever turned on a Light bulb?

Do you know how light works?

By being a part of the Light, is to be in the Light.

Christians are children OF THE Light.

You seek men to follow you.

Thats a false accusation.

Im an Evangelist and a Teacher., for a very long time.
And an Evangelist is a different type of anointing.....Its not a "Hug you with a warm glow".....its a "im going to kick down walls that Satan has created".
See that?

So, if people are engaged by me and follow my teaching , then it is only because i teach Pauline Theology, only.
And this is very spiritual, and it affects people., because the word does not return void.
It will achieve a reaction.....and some react with "i want more".."this is good"..."i see that".., and others react with..>"no, im the one that is smartest on the forum... give me the attention.....get off the Forum"

Listen, I only want people to follow PAUL's Theology, on a Forum, as most say they are already following Christ.

See, if you knew me on all the other forums, then you'd know that i post that you are to "follow Paul as He follows Christ".
That is Paul's Teaching.
And i teach THAT......not "follow me".

We make disciples of Christ. Not ourselves.

All Teachers have disciples. so, you have to be careful to give your mind to only those who understand God's Grace as The Cross of Christ.
You have to be careful to only receive teaching from a Teacher who always gives The Cross of Christ the credit AS= God's Salvation, and never listen to someone who tries to give it to water baptism or works or enduring or keeping law and commandments.

 

[Behold]

The phrase abiding in Christ pictures an intimate,

The only way to abide "IN" Christ,.... not next door,..... or.... "He's up there and im down here"...

The only way to abide "IN" Christ, is to be born again "IN Christ" is to become "the Temple of the Holy Spirit".

We have to be "IN" Christ..(abide).... as that is a Spiritual Union that God causes., that we receive.

The only real proof that a person is a CHRISTian, is if they are born again...

We read in the NT..... "by their fruit, (behavior, lifestyle) you shall know them.."
However, Satan knows that verse, and so, He and His ministers, who are not Christians, mimic, or counterfeit or FAKE it.
And He has his deceived Christiant do the same....and they are the dangerous ones on a Forum., as they'll ruin the faith of a New Christian, and keep other Christians who are struggling for years, away from revelation that can end their spiritual darkness.
They speak Christianese, they "try to sound Spiritual".... They post bible verses.
But their gospel is always water baptism and works, and law and commandments, and self effort and trying to "do righteousness"
Galatians 1:8
Yet they seem like the real thing to people who can't discern them.

 

[Rockson]

There is a morality in this life that takes the place of God. It mimics God. It helps others. It builds societies rich in culture but absent God's presence.

And also the goal posts of that morality always will change bending to the winds of popular opinion.

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

And as we see verse 18 Jesus counsels us to buy gold tried in the fire in other words that which is good and substantial. All that glitters in the world outside of God is FOOLS GOLD. Promises much but leaves one empty.

 

[TibiasDad]

There are those who hold the effects of total depravity were removed by the work of Christ

The fact is that it really does not matter which view of “original sin” one holds. Did Adam’s sin bring only physical death upon us? Or did it also bring spiritual depravity—partial or total? Did it also make us guilty sinners, condemned to eternal punishment in hell? In the final analysis it does not matter what content anyone feels compelled to pour into the concept of “original sin,” because Paul’s main point is this: whatever the whole human race got (or would have gotten) from Adam has been completely canceled out for the whole human race by the gracious atoning work of Jesus Christ. Make the Adamic legacy as dire as you want: physical death, total depravity, genuine guilt, and condemnation to hell. The whole point of the passage is that Christ’s “one act of righteousness” (5:18) has completely intercepted, nullified, negated, canceled, and counteracted whatever was destined to be ours because of Adam. All the potential spiritual consequences of Adam’s sin are intercepted even before they can be applied. The only consequence that actually takes effect is physical death, and it is countered with the promise of resurrection to eternal life.

This understanding of 5:12–19 has been clearly understood at least since the Reformation, when it was taught by Anabaptist writers. Those within the Wesleyan tradition also generally hold this understanding. This principle has been most clearly stated in earlier Restoration Movement writings. As A.I. Hobbs (269) succinctly puts it,

It should be emphasized that, under the reign of grace, whatever death was brought upon our race through Adamic sin by reason of his federal headship was annulled by reason of the federal headship of the second Adam.… What, without our will or consent, we lost in the first Adam, we have regained or shall regain in the second Adam, without our will or consent.

I would tend to agree. Prevenient Grace is, to use a Calvinistic term, “irresistible”, for it is that which allows us to grasp the truth of the gospel by means of the Holy Spirit. But Prevenient Grace’s target, in my opinion, is more at sin’s ability than human ability. That is to say, God disabled the full effect of sin’s power which enables us to sufficiently understand the truth of the gospel and freely choose whether to believe what we have heard.

Doug

 

[Behold]

God disabled the full effect of sin’s power which enables us to sufficiently understand the truth of the gospel and freely choose whether to believe what we have heard.

God has given to every person a "measure of Faith".

That means that each human has the capacity to TRUST... to BELIEVE...

We have to have this ability or we could not Trust or Believe..

Total Depravity, wants to convince us that we are too far gone to Believe in Jesus, so, God has to do it for us.

If that were true, then God would not have required us to do, what He would do for us.

"Faith".

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

God has given to every person a "measure of Faith".

That means that each human has the capacity to TRUST... to BELIEVE...

We have to have this ability or we could not Trust or Believe..

Total Depravity, wants to convince us that we are too far gone to Believe in Jesus, so, God has to do it for us.

If that were true, then God would not have required us to do, what He would do for us.

"Faith".

3 For I say, through the grace that was given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think above what it behoveth to think; but to think so as to think wisely, as to each God did deal a measure of faith, 4 for as in one body we have many members, and all the members have not the same office,

Paul is speaking to the body of Christ, not all people.

 

[civic]

3 For I say, through the grace that was given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think above what it behoveth to think; but to think so as to think wisely, as to each God did deal a measure of faith, 4 for as in one body we have many members, and all the members have not the same office,

Paul is speaking to the body of Christ, not all people.

Which means God never gave you faith when you were an unbeliever. Thanks for finally agreeing with me and the Bible. That’s good start.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I would tend to agree. Prevenient Grace is, to use a Calvinistic term, “irresistible”, for it is that which allows us to grasp the truth of the gospel by means of the Holy Spirit. But Prevenient Grace’s target, in my opinion, is more at sin’s ability than human ability. That is to say, God disabled the full effect of sin’s power which enables us to sufficiently understand the truth of the gospel and freely choose whether to believe what we have heard.

Doug

What you're describing is God changing a person's heart to enable him to "hear" (recognize and understand) the truth. That's what I've been saying for a long time.

 

[TibiasDad]

What you're describing is God changing a person's heart to enable him to "hear" (recognize and understand) the truth. That's what I've been saying for a long time.

No, we are not saying the same thing. The perspective is changed through the conviction of sin, the realization that we are guilty before God. The spiritual heart isn’t changed yet, but has just realized that it has to be, it needs to be! Now it must make a decision as to which direction it is going to take.

I think this is illustrated in Acts 2 when the people asked Peter “What must we do to be saved?”. They were not born again yet, for they had not yet repented and been baptized for the forgiveness of their sins, but Peter told them what yet needed to be done to become believers.

The difference between us is that you hold that to be able to understand the truth of the gospel, you have to have already been born again, and the believing and repentance will invariably follow. That is not what I have said.

Man has been given the right to choose whom he will serve by God; but his mind and desires are held captive by the darkness of sin and must be shown the light of truth. “The people born in darkness have seen a great light!” They realize they must be saved by God! Then they can truly “choose today whom you will serve” be it the gods we have been serving or the God of the gospel, the Lord.

Doug

 

[civic]

No, we are not saying the same thing. The perspective is changed through the conviction of sin, the realization that we are guilty before God. The spiritual heart isn’t changed yet, but has just realized that it has to be, it needs to be! Now it must make a decision as to which direction it is going to take.

I think this is illustrated in Acts 2 when the people asked Peter “What must we do to be saved?”. They were not born again yet, for they had not yet repented and been baptized for the forgiveness of their sins, but Peter told them what yet needed to be done to become believers.

The difference between us is that you hold that to be able to understand the truth of the gospel, you have to have already been born again, and the believing and repentance will invariably follow. That is not what I have said.

Man has been given the right to choose whom he will serve by God; but his mind and desires are held captive by the darkness of sin and must be shown the light of truth. “The people born in darkness have seen a great light!” They realize they must be saved by God! Then they can truly “choose today whom you will serve” be it the gods we have been serving or the God of the gospel, the Lord.

Doug

ditto

 

[TibiasDad]

God has given to every person a "measure of Faith".

No, that refers to those already believers, and has to do with their gifts of service and ministry.

God has given everyone the capacity for believing, but that is not Paul’s meaning when he says “measure of faith”!

Doug

 

[TomL]

I would tend to agree. Prevenient Grace is, to use a Calvinistic term, “irresistible”, for it is that which allows us to grasp the truth of the gospel by means of the Holy Spirit. But Prevenient Grace’s target, in my opinion, is more at sin’s ability than human ability. That is to say, God disabled the full effect of sin’s power which enables us to sufficiently understand the truth of the gospel and freely choose whether to believe what we have heard.

Doug

Whether it is through prevenient grace or the God given ability to possess faith that we are born with, man is able to believe the gospel.

 

[Complete]

Dear God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Thank you for giving us the grace to believe
what you have said concerning your Son,
the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Jesus Name
Amen

 

[Complete]

'Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect:
.. yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
.... But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,
...... even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
........ Which none of the princes of this world knew:
.......... for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man,
.. the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.
.... But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit:
...... for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
........ For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?
.......... even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
.. that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
.... Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
...... but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
.. for they are foolishness unto him:
.... neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
...... But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
........ For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him?
But we have the mind of Christ.'
(1Cor. 2:6-16)

 

[Behold]

No, that refers to those already believers, and has to do with their gifts of service and ministry.

God does not require everyone to Believe in Christ... if He is going to be doing the Faith for you.

So, the "measure of Faith" that everyone has, allows all to make choices regarding what we trust and believe.

The Same MEASURE of Faith, that is in A Christian, is also in a PAGAN as they also BELIEVE..in "Mother Earth"..

Every RELIGION has BELIEVERS in it., and that is FAITH......and GOD didnt put FAITH in someone so that they can believe in some other Religion.

Understand @TibiasDad ?

EVERYONE Believes in something, because ALL have the "measure of Faith".

 

[praise_yeshua]

Whether it is through prevenient grace or the God given ability to possess faith that we are born with, man is able to believe the gospel.

As much as some of you argue against Augustine (and you should), do you realize that your views are still dependent upon what Augustine taught? He was wrong. Both Calvin and Arminius were wrong. They have narrowed your minds by leading you into error. Prevenient Grace is nothing more than false doctrine that came out of the battles of men to control the narrative of God.

The message (The Gospel) itself imparts knowledge.

Arminianism and Calvinism are both wrong. Grace is manifest in many many ways as referenced throughout the Scriptures. Both sides of these types of argument do nothing more than continue to mis"lead" men into mistakes.

Lets take the words of Jesus as an example.

Mat 11:28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry.”

Now take the challenge I'm presenting to all of you.

Tell me exactly what special revelation is required from God to understand these words.

The answer is NONE.

I will tell you there are many things that are naturally required to understand those words. You must have been taught English. (man's responsibility to his own). You must experience living a life designed by God to naturally leave mankind empty......

The message itself is Grace to man and imparts the required knowledge of who to come to. "come to Jesus".

Notice how Paul spoke of saving men through the Gospel

I become all things to all men that I might......

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Notice how men are begotten through the Gospel.

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Man is enlightened through the Gospel "man to man". Person to person. The Gospel is preached through "plainness of speech".

2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:



****Even after a person is enlightened and born again, they are still carnal. All of you are still carnal. I am too. ***

Even though I have received the Spirit of God, we still don't understand Spiritual things. Our eyes don't understand what they now see. Our ears still don't understand what we now hear from our Father. Yet, there is no doubt we still cry "Abba Father" seeking to learn of Him. We are all endlessly chastened because we are still flesh.

Also, even after being enlightened and growing in the Spirit it is still the requirement of natural things upon us to understand Spiritual things....

1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

There is a "false dilemma" here that few witness. Both man made doctrines are wrong.

 

[Behold]

As much as some of you argue against Augustine (and you should), do you realize that your views are still dependent upon what Augustine taught? He was wrong. Both Calvin and Arminius were wrong.

Dont follow any of those people.

Do this instead....

A.) Paul said.>"be a follower of ME, as I follow Christ".

And that means study His Doctrine.

Start here......

Romans 3:21-28

Hebrews 13:9

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17 (This is John) but its DIRECTLY related to 2 Corinthians 5:19.. .(Compare scripture with scripture) .

Romans 4:8

1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[TomL]

As much as some of you argue against Augustine (and you should), do you realize that your views are still dependent upon what Augustine taught? He was wrong. Both Calvin and Arminius were wrong. They have narrowed your minds by leading you into error. Prevenient Grace is nothing more than false doctrine that came out of the battles of men to control the narrative of God.

The message (The Gospel) itself imparts knowledge.

Arminianism and Calvinism are both wrong. Grace is manifest in many many ways as referenced throughout the Scriptures. Both sides of these types of argument do nothing more than continue to mis"lead" men into mistakes.

Lets take the words of Jesus as an example.

Mat 11:28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry.”

Now take the challenge I'm presenting to all of you.

Tell me exactly what special revelation is required from God to understand these words.

The answer is NONE.

I will tell you there are many things that are naturally required to understand those words. You must have been taught English. (man's responsibility to his own). You must experience living a life designed by God to naturally leave mankind empty......

The message itself is Grace to man and imparts the required knowledge of who to come to. "come to Jesus".

Notice how Paul spoke of saving men through the Gospel

I become all things to all men that I might......

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Notice how men are begotten through the Gospel.

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Man is enlightened through the Gospel "man to man". Person to person. The Gospel is preached through "plainness of speech".

2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:



****Even after a person is enlightened and born again, they are still carnal. All of you are still carnal. I am too. ***

Even though I have received the Spirit of God, we still don't understand Spiritual things. Our eyes don't understand what they now see. Our ears still don't understand what we now hear from our Father. Yet, there is no doubt we still cry "Abba Father" seeking to learn of Him. We are all endlessly chastened because we are still flesh.

Also, even after being enlightened and growing in the Spirit it is still the requirement of natural things upon us to understand Spiritual things....

1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

There is a "false dilemma" here that few witness. Both man made doctrines are wrong.

Um I am not an Arminian. As such I do not hold to the partial regeneration of original Arminianism or total inability

 

[TomL]

God does not require everyone to Believe in Christ... if He is going to be doing the Faith for you.

So, the "measure of Faith" that everyone has, allows all to make choices regarding what we trust and believe.

The Same MEASURE of Faith, that is in A Christian, is also in a PAGAN as they also BELIEVE..in "Mother Earth"..

Every RELIGION has BELIEVERS in it., and that is FAITH......and GOD didnt put FAITH in someone so that they can believe in some other Religion.

Understand @TibiasDad ?

EVERYONE Believes in something, because ALL have the "measure of Faith".

Doug is correct in his claim.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Um I am not an Arminian. As such I do not hold to the partial regeneration of original Arminianism or total inability

What you stated was based upon accepting the base arguments of those you reject. You're claiming to reject them while maintaining some semblance of what they taught.