Riddle Me This:
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
If the answer is contained in those passages you cite then point it out to me because I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I mean, those passages I understand but in what way do you understand those passages with regard to my OP?
The Resurrection of Christ stripped death of its potency. Death no longer reigns supreme. A better question to ask is why hasn't God given us resurrected bodies already? Why must our Resurrection be pushed so far into the future? Why the wait?
In Christian theology, the Resurrection is part of a larger redemptive story that unfolds over time. Scripture presents history as moving toward a climax—what the Bible calls the "fullness of time." God is working out a plan that involves patience, mercy, and the gathering of all who will be saved.
While resurrection is the hope, this present life still has value. It’s a time of growth, choice, and transformation. We develop character, faith, love, and perseverance through our struggles—things that may be deeply meaningful in eternity. In that sense, this time isn’t a delay so much as a necessary phase of formation.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
In order to bring in the many, many sons and daughters of the Lord.
There is a book of life of the lamb that was "written" with the names of the millions and millions of souls to salvation according to the will of God.
All God is doing is following this "book" and stretching it out in the realm of time to make this happen.
Ah, so we agree.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Yes, we must still die in this life, regardless of the fact that we have believed God regarding the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, received forgiveness of sins, and the promise of life in Christ Jesus. The reason for that, as far as I can see, is because, as it says in the verses I quoted from 1 Corinthians 15, 'Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God', ''For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
The difference being that death has now no power to retain us any longer, for we have the promise of life in Christ Jesus, and in God's estimation we are not 'dead' (as the unbelieving are at the death of the body) but are reckoned by God to be, 'asleep in Christ,' awaiting the resurrection out from among dead ones. Death for the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, has lost it's sting, victory is ours in Christ Jesus.
Praise His Holy Name!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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101G
Well-known member
Correct. Christ paid that penalty for sin at the cross. again you're correct in that we sleep, for there are "TWO DEATHS". the first death is natural, or Physical death of the Natural or Physical ..... "BODY", for in the resurrection we will get NEW BODIES. the Soul sleeps or is inactive in this natural or creative world. and out spirits returns to God who gave it in the first place.
again, you're correct because we have victory in Christ Jesus, "OVER ETERNAL DEATH", which is eternal separation from God which is the second death. supportive scripture, Romans 6:8 "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:" Romans 6:9 "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him." Romans 6:10 "For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God." Romans 6:11 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
the whole chapter 6 of the book of Romans is a Good read for this post and this topic, as well of the whole book of Romans.
Good spot there complete, keep up the Good work.
101G.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Death has not lost its "sting."
We are still stung by it at the end of our lives, a reality that shouts that death is the result of a wage we must pay when we die, a debt that Christ did not die for under the Law, for the wages of sin is death.
But is this correct?
Jesus Christ died to atone for the sins of God's elect, a people the Father gave to the Son.
And yet there appears to be one unatoned sin which kills us at the end of our lives.
And "who" has the "promise of life"? To whom was this promise made?
Complete
Well-known member
'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ
by the will of God,
according to the promise of life
which is in Christ Jesus,'
(2Tim 1:1)
'But of Him (God) are ye in Christ Jesus,
Who of God is made unto us
wisdom, and righteousness,
and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written,
He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.'
(1Co 1:30=31))
Hello @jeremish1five,
Your reasoning is way off beam. There is no unatoned sin.
'It is Finished!'
In Christ Jesus
Chris
by the will of God,
according to the promise of life
which is in Christ Jesus,'
(2Tim 1:1)
'But of Him (God) are ye in Christ Jesus,
Who of God is made unto us
wisdom, and righteousness,
and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written,
He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.'
(1Co 1:30=31))
Hello @jeremish1five,
Your reasoning is way off beam. There is no unatoned sin.
'It is Finished!'
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Complete
Well-known member
'For from the top of the rocks I see him,
and from the hills I behold him:
lo, the people shall dwell alone,
and shall not be reckoned among the nations.'
(Num 23:9)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Jews are always distinguished from Gentiles within scripture are they not? So why do you insist that Gentiles who convert in the New Testament must be Jews? Either by birth or by choice? Surely that differentiation that was deemed necessary by God in Numbers 23. should still apply within New Testament times, and also in this present day.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
and from the hills I behold him:
lo, the people shall dwell alone,
and shall not be reckoned among the nations.'
(Num 23:9)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Jews are always distinguished from Gentiles within scripture are they not? So why do you insist that Gentiles who convert in the New Testament must be Jews? Either by birth or by choice? Surely that differentiation that was deemed necessary by God in Numbers 23. should still apply within New Testament times, and also in this present day.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The wages of sin is death.
We die at the end of our lives, through sickness, or accident, etc. Even if we are born-again and receive eternal life we still die. Death is the penalty for sin so what sin kills us and why wasn't it atoned by Jesus? We do still die and death is the penalty for sin. What's going on here?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
First, God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed (Abram and Sarai, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and his wives and Jacob's sons all married within their Hebrew family.)
Later, after fulfilling His own prophecy about Abram's seed going into bondage and delivering them, God made covenant with Jacob's seed, the children of Israel called the Mosaic Covenant. Centuries later Jeremiah prophesied God would make a New Covenant with the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.) Going back to Abram God made covenant with Abram and his [Hebrew] seed. Do you see what's going on here?
All three covenants are between God and the Hebrew people through Abram. There is no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Hebrew Scripture (Law, Psalms, and Prophets - 66 "books")
Twice before Jesus was born God scattered the Hebrew people into Gentile lands (Assyrian and Babylonian Conquests.) From the Assyrian Conquest to Jesus' birth about 29-35 generations of Jews were born in Gentile lands. Through rape, concubinage, slavery, and inter-marriages mixed heritage Hebrews were born among the Jews. The Samaritans were the result of these mixed heritage births. In time and without a Temple most Hebrews backslid and growing up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture Jews became Hellenized. Many lost their Hebrew culture and heritage. Many Hebrews assimilated into Gentile/Greek culture. And there were Jews who after several generations grew up Gentile. It wasn't like the Egyptian bondage where Hebrews were settled in one place (Goshen) and under cruel taskmasters cried out to God for deliverance. Under Assyria there were concentrations of Hebrew neighborhoods but for the most part Jews fanned out throughout the Empire.
Babylonia defeated Assyria and eventually conquered them and took the ten tribes into captivity. After several attempts the two tribes of the southern kingdom (Judah) were conquered and taken into captivity and after another 20-25 generations of Hebrew and mixed heritage Hebrew births Cyrus allowed Nehemiah and later, Ezra to return to Palestine (Israel.) It was mostly the two southern kingdom tribes of Judah and Benjamin who returned to Israel. The ten northern kingdom tribes assimilated among Judah and Benjamin and became "lost" ten tribes, but they were not lost in location as they were more seriously in culture and heritage. A remnant of the children of the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to Israel. Some ten tribes were among them. A remnant is about 5-10% of a total number of people. In this case, Jews. If for the sake of argument 300,000 Hebrews were taken into captivity by both Assyria and Babylon, and 29-35 generations later what do you suppose the total number would be (and this does not include Hebrews who escaped from the wars or those who settled in Gentile lands in-between Israel proper and Assyria/Babylon. Speaking about Hebrews exiled to Babylon ONLY, if there were 300,000 Hebrews in captivity and a remnant left for Israel the number is about 15-30 thousand Jews (remnant) that returned to Israel in 522 BC. The majority of Jews remained in Assyria, Babylon, and in Gentile lands in-between and this amounted to the majority of Jews that remained where they were throughout Asia Monor (Mesopotamia, Ephesus, Philippi, Corinth, southern Europe, Italy, Egypt, Ethiopia, Libya, Sudan, etc.), millions of Jews were scattered by God EVERYWHERE.
Samaria was the capital of the ten northern kingdom tribes. Mixed heritage Hebrews who populated near this land were called Samaritan by the two southern kingdom tribes (Judah and Benjamin) and those Jews who did not intermingle with Gentiles (Jews who maintained a less tainted bloodline.) By the time of Peter's sermon (Acts 2) all twelve tribes of Jacob were represented in Israel, but millions were scattered throughout the world. History (literature, archaeology, etc.) and the Bible record Samaritans as being offspring of the ten northern kingdom tribes and Gentiles. There is scarcely, if any, record of the two southern kingdom tribes and Gentiles. Where are their mixed heritage descendants? What are they called? Where are they mentioned?
Second, I don't add to the Bible. God has covenant with the Hebrew people. I find no covenant in the Hebrew Scripture (OT) between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
Third, the twelve sons of Jacob and their families (70) transplanted to live with Joseph in Goshen, Egypt for 400 years until their deliverance. That's about 13-16 generations of Hebrews born in that time but the bloodline was very Hebrew. Estimates range from 1-2 million Hebrews led out of Egypt by Moses.
Bible says God delivered Hebrews out of bondage in Egypt - Hebrews, not Gentiles.
Fourth, from 722 BC (Assyria/Babylon) to Jesus' birth about 29-35 generations of Hebrews (including mixed heritage) were born. That's about 3-5 million Jews in the then-known world but the remnant that returned to Israel from Babylon was about 15-30 thousand Jews - including mixed heritage.
Fifth, the Holy Spirit of Promise (Joel) was promised to Israel, not Gentiles.
Sixth, there is no mention, instruction, or command of God under the Law and in the OT the high priest offered sacrifices to atone yearly for the sins of Gentiles.
Seventh, the Church (Greek: "ekklesia" = "called out [ones]") Christ promised to build was promised to and for Israel and in Acts was populated by Jews by the thousands.
Eighth, in the OT God calls Israel a "Great Congregation" and is the forerunner of the "Church" in the NT.
Ninth, in the OT God is betrothed to Israel.
Tenth, God calls Israel His Bride and is betrothed to Israel. Israel is called "woman" and is betrothed to her. The "world" would be considered [another] woman [Babylon, Mother of Harlots] and to claim Jesus Christ loves "the world" means that Christ has a Bride (Israel) but is in love with the world (Harlot Babylon) also and she will also be saved makes Jesus an adulterer.
Based upon the above FACTS "Gentiles" in the NT would have to be mixed heritage Hebrews of Jew-Gentile descent but STILL the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:28-29.)
Based upon the above the Holy Spirit was promised to Israel and is required for salvation, and
Based upon the above each and every born-again experience by men and women since the first century would mean that such persons would have to have at least one Hebrew parent in their ancestry and is still the seed of Abraham and heir according to the promise and that the teaching that non-Hebrew Gentiles can become Christian and born-again one would have to add to the bible and include non-Hebrew Gentiles into ALL three Hebrew covenants and in my study I find NONE. If God made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles, I want to know the name of this "Gentile" God made covenant with, who are its prophets, what religious instruction is there, and where is their Bible recording their history, culture, prophets, great men of their covenant(s) etc.
There is NONE.
Explain what you mean by referencing Numbers 23.
