Responsibilities to God and His Christ

Then God, Himself.... lied.

And so did "your boy" Saul.... The very one you swoon over everytime you say his name....

Romans 11:11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

emphasized by
Romans 11:12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

In the New Testament, the apostles, particularly Paul, emphasized that salvation is available to both Jews and Gentiles. Paul wrote that through faith in Jesus, both groups can be justified. He stated, "There is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him" (Romans 10:12).

In Acts 10, Peter received a vision from God that led him to understand that Gentiles could receive the gospel. This was a significant moment in affirming that God's grace extends to all.

Paul was specifically called to preach to the Gentiles, highlighting God's intention to include them in His plan of salvation.

And you wonder why I would want to ignore you? Just think about that and the heavenly Father may give you a revelation as to why.
The problem is you interpret "Gentiles" in the NT as non-Hebrew when they are in reality mixed-race Jews.

They are not Hellenized; they are mixed-race Jews who grew up AS GENTILES in the 700 years Jews were exiled by God and scattered among Gentiles to live among Gentiles. There was no Temple and so these Jews lost their heritage and grew up as Gentiles totally ignorant of their Hebrew heritage. These were the "Gentiles" God sent Saul to witness to.

The mixed-race Jews of the northern kingdom tribes (along with Manasseh and Ephraim) are identified in the New Testament. Do you know what they were called?

Think.
 
Don’t you think that the AI bot knows Hebrew? It gives a wide range of opinions as to the meaning in differing contexts.

The definition is the same regardless of source; which reminds me, what is your source for defining it as you do. I can’t find any source that defines it as you have.


Doug
Ai is made by Gentiles. The Ai will seek Gentile resources in order to give you an answer. The Bible was written by Jews to and for other Jews. It is not a Gentile production.
 
Nice try; how about giving the whole definition:

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
alien, sojourner, stranger
Or (fully) geyr (gare); from guwr; properly, a guest; by implication, a foreigner -- alien, sojourner, stranger.


NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from gur
Definition
a sojourner
NASB Translation
alien (40), aliens (11), foreigners (1), immigrants (1), sojourner (5), sojourners (2), stranger (25), stranger's (1), strangers (6).


Brown-Driver-Briggs


usually of גֵּרים in Israel 2 Samuel 1:13(Amalekite) compare Joshua 8:33,35 (E) Joshua 20:9 (P) Isaiah 14:1; dwellers in Israel with certain conceded, not inherited right (compare RSOTJC 434; 2nd ed. 342. n.; K 42; Sem 75 f. StaGeschichte.i.400). The גֵּר is to share in Sabbath rest Exodus 20:10; Exodus 23:12 (both J E) Deuteronomy 5:14; otherwise he is have like obligations with Israel Exodus 12:19,48,49; Leviticus 16:29 (all P)


Topical Lexicon
Definition and Scope
The word designates a non-native who has taken up residence among the covenant people—neither a passing traveler (who might be called a “stranger”) nor an assimilated “native-born,” but a settled outsider living under Israel’s civil jurisdiction. Scripture consistently pairs such residents with other vulnerable groups (the fatherless and widows), stressing their need for protection and their potential inclusion within the life of the community.


Doug
You are using definitions by people who use the corrupt Westcott & Hort Revised Greek text.

One passage of Scripture does not a doctrine make. You are using definitions by people who utilized a corrupt Greek Revision. As far as I know Strong is faithful to the KJV which doesn't use corrupt Greek texts.

Look at your response. You use BDB, NAS, these are among other modern-day new-age translations.

Your passage in Leviticus 16 refers to the twelve tribes of Israel. Gentiles are not included in the text nor its meaning. You're trying to use a passage - ONE passage - to make a doctrine that you want to claim refers to Gentiles when it doesn't.

17 And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel. Leviticus 16:17.

I don't see Gentiles.

19 And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel. Leviticus 16:19.

I don't see Gentiles.

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: Leviticus 16:21.

I don't see Gentiles.

34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses. Leviticus 16:34.

I don't see Gentiles.

You want to take a word that is defined as "guest" and make it to mean Gentile. The word for Gentile is not in this chapter. Throughout this chapter and the Law of Moses, God is addressing Israel, NOT Gentiles.

In chapter 16 Moses is identifying "Israel." But Moses is NOT identifying Gentiles. You are taking a word that means "guest" and refers to the 12 tribes and trying desperately to make the word mean "Gentile." Sorry, but you've failed. God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles NOR has He promised to save Gentiles NOR has He promised His Spirit to Gentiles. Gentiles are NOT under the Law which means Gentiles are outside the grace of God.

By the way, the word is defined PROPERLY not "implied." And adding the translated words after the colon is just bad grammar and definition.

Properly, the word is "guest".
 
Your passage in Leviticus 16 refers to the twelve tribes of Israel. Gentiles are not included in the text nor its meaning.
You have yet to supply a source that supports your claims. You have provided no evidence that “guest” is the intended meaning (as opposed to alien, foreigner, etc), when nobody I can find comes anywhere close to saying what you are. One would think that if you are right I would have no problem finding evidence that vindicates your position.

Thus far, you have not presented any reason beyond your own claims. Verifiable evidence from credible, well known scholarly sources is the only means of proving your assertions! In other words, just to be clear, you saying so is woefully insufficient!

Doug
 
It’s a Hebrew word, not Greek…and the revised Greek text by W&H has nothing to do with this!

Doug
You posted sources from people who use Westcott & Hort's Revised Bible. ALL the modern-day, new-age English translations (NAS, NKJV, NIV, NIVr, ASV, NASB, Jerusalem, Word, Message,) etc., are translated using Westcott & Hort's corrupt Greek Revision. The only authorized translation for the English-speaking people is the KJV.
 
You have yet to supply a source that supports your claims. You have provided no evidence that “guest” is the intended meaning (as opposed to alien, foreigner, etc), when nobody I can find comes anywhere close to saying what you are. One would think that if you are right I would have no problem finding evidence that vindicates your position.

Thus far, you have not presented any reason beyond your own claims. Verifiable evidence from credible, well known scholarly sources is the only means of proving your assertions! In other words, just to be clear, you saying so is woefully insufficient!

Doug
Moses is speaking to the Hebrew people.
The Law is to and for the Hebrew people.
The Pentateuch is to and for the Hebrew people.
Pay attention:

Moses wrote Genesis. It is a book of beginnings.

1 NOW these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.
2 Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,
3 Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,
4 Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.
Exodus 1:1-5.

1 AND the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them,
Leviticus 1:1-2.

1 AND the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying,
2 Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls;
Numbers 1:1-2.

1 THESE be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red sea, between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab.
Deuteronomy 1:1.

What you'll find in these five books is communication between Creator God and His people, a people He delivered OUT of Egypt as prophesied. As the history narrative moves forward from Adam, Seth, Noah, Salah, Eber, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the children of Jacob (aka "Israel"). Moses was commanded by God to write these things in a "book" to be passed down to future generations. Moses did that. After Moses we come to Joshua, and then the judges, the kings, then the Diaspora and Exile, the planting of Jews in Gentile lands. For over 700 years the Jews were scattered into Gentile lands. Some Jews intermingled with Gentiles and had offspring. For approximately 29-35 generations of Jews had married, were taken as slaves, concubinage, raped, even married Gentiles and had children for over 700 years. Some Jew families were closer to their Mosaic religion, some were influenced by Greek culture and became Hellenized, some Jews grew up Gentile completely ignorant of their Hebrew identity. BUT they were STILL the seed of Abraham. The Word of God was written to and for the Hebrew people. The Hebrew people were given the responsibility of being caretakers of the oracles of God. This continues into the first century AD and the New Covenant writings. It is all about the final coming of Israel's Messiah, the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL - Joel - and the things the Spirit done according to Prophecies and Promises.

Your passage in Leviticus 16:29 does not speak about Gentiles. Moses is addressing the Ceremonial Law. Are you going to tell me this passage, which is very weak, is telling us this is where God includes Gentiles into the Law of Moses? That's very doubtful. The twelve tribes are represented at Jesus' last Passover. How many Gentiles were present at Jesus last Passover? NONE!

God was the One who gave each tribe parcels of land. There were three tribes God placed to the north of the Tabernacle, three tribes to the west of the Tabernacle, three tribes to the south of the Tabernacle, three tribes to the east of the Tabernacle. There were NO Gentiles given any land around the Tabernacle by God. When God sent Moses to deliver the Hebrews from out of their bondage in Egypt, it was Hebrews that were delivered. Hebrews were in bondage, NOT Gentiles. Scripture records Hebrews were delivered by Moses.
 
True, born-again Biblical Christians take the Scripture as written.

They don't add or subtract from the Bible or make God do and say things He never said. We take Scripture as a literal historical record of God dealing with one man named Abram and making covenant with him as described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17.
We take the Pentateuch as written by Moses as a literal record of God's relationship with Abraham's seed through Isaac and then Jacob and including Jacob's twelve sons and their offspring. This Mosaic Covenant does not include non-Hebrew Gentiles. The high priest under the Law never offered sacrifices for the sins of Gentiles and today, to claim that Gentiles can be and have been saved by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Joel) PROMISED TO ISRAEL is to make Christ and God to change Scripture after the fact of its closing thus destroying the Law which Christ Himself declared He did not come to destroy/change the Scripture and the covenants after they had been closed.
The New Covenant Christ initiated in His blood the night of His death on His last Passover is a covenant between God, the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes) and does NOT include non-Hebrew Gentiles.

So, where is all this talk and posting that Gentiles are the recipient of the benefits of covenant under the Law and are saved? The high priest never offered sacrifices for the sin of Gentiles, nor did he ever sprinkle the blood of the sacrifice upon Gentiles.
But all of a sudden for the past 1,993 years after Christ's ascension there are many who teach Christ changed the Law and added Gentiles to the cross of Christ.
There is NO SCRIPTURE in the Old Testament that says such a thing. It is adding to the Bible that people do and make God and Christ out to be liars.

I take Scripture as written. I do not add to the Bible as many here do.

This is not the behavior of true, born-again Biblical Christians.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18–19.

Many need to study the Old Testament Scripture for then one can rightly interpret the New Covenant writings of Jews and Jewish Christians called the gospels, the epistles, and the Revelation prophecy.

Salvation is OF THE LORD.

and

Salvation is OF THE JEWS.

Nowhere is salvation of the Gentiles.
 
You posted sources from people who use Westcott & Hort's Revised Bible. ALL the modern-day, new-age English translations (NAS, NKJV, NIV, NIVr, ASV, NASB, Jerusalem, Word, Message,) etc., are translated using Westcott & Hort's corrupt Greek Revision. The only authorized translation for the English-speaking people is the KJV.
To quote you, “irrelevant”! Again, I ask you what is different from W&H and what you think is the best text. (By the way, there is much to be desired in the TR, but that has nothing to do with the meaning of וְהַגֵּ֖ר in Lev 16:29.)

Doug
 
You posted sources from people who use Westcott & Hort's Revised Bible. ALL the modern-day, new-age English translations (NAS, NKJV, NIV, NIVr, ASV, NASB, Jerusalem, Word, Message,) etc., are translated using Westcott & Hort's corrupt Greek Revision. The only authorized translation for the English-speaking people is the KJV.
To quote you, “irrelevant”! Again, I ask you what is different from W&H and what you think is the best text. (By the way, there is much to be desired in the TR, but that has nothing to do with the meaning of וְהַגֵּ֖ר in Lev 16:29.)

Doug
 
Salvation is OF THE LORD.

and

Salvation is OF THE JEWS.

Nowhere is salvation of the Gentiles
Learn English! Nobody is saying that salvation is “of” the Gentiles. It is of God and of the Jewish people, but it is for all mankind, Jew and Gentiles alike.

Doug
 
Learn English! Nobody is saying that salvation is “of” the Gentiles. It is of God and of the Jewish people, but it is for all mankind, Jew and Gentiles alike.

Doug
The LORD'S salvation is to and for Israel ONLY.
You are adding to the Bible. God made no covenant with Gentiles. Gentiles are the enemy of God and Israel.
God has only ONE Chosen people, ONE Bride, ONE Body, and ONE people: The children of Israel.

Only Israel was under the Law and the sacrifice was to and for Israel. The high priest took the blood and sprinkled the people, the book, the altar, and the Mercy Seat. Gentiles were not part of this Law and the Promises it held.

Gentiles are outside the grace of God.
 
You still don't understand.

According to the Law the children of Israel were atoned of their sins by an animal. It lasted for one year and was repeated when the one year was up. It was perpetual and ongoing for centuries. It ended when Jesus bar Joseph was crucified on a Roman cross and Jesus' blood atoned finally and forever the sins of the children of Israel.
Jesus' sacrifice was in accordance with the Law of Moses. Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses. This means that just as the animal was sacrificed to atone the sins of Israel for one year, Jesus' sacrifice was used by God to atone forever the sins of the children of Israel. IF JESUS atoned the sins of the children of Israel according to the Law of Moses, then Jesus' sacrifice was ONLY TO AND FOR the children of Israel.

SINCE Gentiles were not under the Law nor were they atoned along with Israel under the Law, then this means Jesus' sacrifice was to and for the children of Israel because if someone says Jesus' sacrifice also atoned Gentiles then that person has made Jesus to change the Law and destroy it by adding Gentiles to His atonement.

#1. Gentiles were never under the Law, nor the sacrificial system of worship commanded by God.

#2. If Gentiles were not under the Law, then the animal sacrifices did not apply to Gentiles.

#3. If Gentiles were NOT atoned under the Law, then they were NOT atoned under Jesus' sacrifice.

#4. To claim that Gentiles are atoned by Jesus' sacrifice is to teach Jesus changed the Law to include Gentiles which inclusion would destroy the Law for not even God or Jesus or the Spirit can change the Law already written out and commanded by God under Moses.

If Gentiles were not atoned under the Law, then they were not atoned by Jesus' sacrifice for to teach Gentiles are atoned by Jesus is to change the Law of Moses, teach Jesus changed the Law of Moses, meaning Jesus didn't come to fulfill the Law of Moses but was sent to DESTROY the Law of Moses. <--- THIS is what you teach and believe.
There is no current atonement for sin by any animal. Atonement is in Christ


Rom 3:23–25 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
2 Cor 5:18–21 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Col 1:19–20 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Heb 9:11–14 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Rom 5:8–11 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
1 Pet 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
Heb 10:10–14 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

If your faith here is not in the atonement, which is of Christ, you are lacking salvation and are lost. Please reconsider such thoughts you have been expressing.
 
Ai is made by Gentiles. The Ai will seek Gentile resources in order to give you an answer. The Bible was written by Jews to and for other Jews. It is not a Gentile production.
there is no bible.
 
There is no current atonement for sin by any animal. Atonement is in Christ


Rom 3:23–25 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
2 Cor 5:18–21 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Col 1:19–20 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Heb 9:11–14 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Rom 5:8–11 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
1 Pet 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
Heb 10:10–14 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

If your faith here is not in the atonement, which is of Christ, you are lacking salvation and are lost. Please reconsider such thoughts you have been expressing.
Let me try one more time.

Under the Law the children of Israel offered sacrifices every new year on their most holy day: Yom Kippur.

They sacrificed an animal according to God's command whose blood actually atoned "covered" the sins of the children of Israel temporarily for one year and then they repeat this worship every year perpetually.

Fact #1: Gentiles are not under the Law and were not atoned by the animal sacrifice.

Fact #2. If Gentiles were not atoned under the Law by the animal sacrifice, then they were not atoned under the Law by Jesus' sacrifice.

Fact #3. To believe that Gentiles were atoned by Jesus Christ on His cross is to add to the Bible. It also teaches that Jesus destroyed the Law of Moses, something impossible to do. If Gentiles were NOT atoned under the Law by the animal sacrifice, then Gentiles were NOT atoned by Jesus Christ on His cross.

So, you believe in false teaching. The only people atoned by the animal sacrifice are the same people atoned by the sacrifice of Jesus on His cross for He came to fulfill the Law, NOT CHANGE IT to add Gentiles.
If Gentiles are to be atoned by Jesus' sacrifice, they would also have to have been under the Law and atoned by the animal sacrifice - something it was NEVER a part of for God gave His Law to the children of Israel in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle according to Moses.

Saul wrote:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

The "redeem them that were under the Law" are the children of Israel ONLY.

Gentiles are not saved, were never saved, can't be saved, and will NEVER be saved according to God and His Word.
 
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