Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
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TibiasDad
Active Member
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Nothing about “without election”! Nothing about “because any elect that comes to him”.
Anyone is an infinitely broad door!
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
Two words False witnessing
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont know why you brought that verse up ? Desperation maybe.
TibiasDad
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
What do you mean ? Thats a dumb comment
TibiasDad
Active Member
Show me a verse that states “without election” and withdraw from personal attacks, which are a sure sign of desperation.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
You claimed it “false witnessing”: prove it! What is false about omniscience?
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont have time for chasing your words
brightfame52
Active Member
You are false witnessing. That doesnt have anything to do with Gods omniscience.
TibiasDad
Active Member
You’re not chasing my words, you’re running from them! You’re running in the wrong direction.
Doug
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brightfame52
Active Member
Predestinated to Faith in Christ !
Those who come to Faith in Christ were predestinated thereunto, whereby we read in Eph 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Predestinated to the adoption of Children or Sons by Jesus Christ ! The word for Children is actually the greek word huiothesia made up of Two words tithēmi :
I.to set, put, place
And the word huios :
I.a son
Hence to set or place as a Son through or by [dia] Jesus Christ !
And we are declared to be the Children/ Sons of God by Faith in Jesus Christ Gal 3:26
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Yes that word children here is the same greek word huios = Son !
And its because we were always Sons secretly even in Adam Lk 3:23, because of the Work of Christ to deliver us from the fall in him, The Spirit of Adoption is sent into our hearts to declare our Adoption Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
And with the Spirit is effected the Fruit of Faith Gal 5:22 by which we come to Faith in Christ Jesus Gal 3:26.
Also Gal 4:6 is the fulfillment of the Covenant Promise to Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
All of this was Predestinated by God according to His choosing us in Christ before the foundation
Those who come to Faith in Christ were predestinated thereunto, whereby we read in Eph 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Predestinated to the adoption of Children or Sons by Jesus Christ ! The word for Children is actually the greek word huiothesia made up of Two words tithēmi :
I.to set, put, place
And the word huios :
I.a son
Hence to set or place as a Son through or by [dia] Jesus Christ !
And we are declared to be the Children/ Sons of God by Faith in Jesus Christ Gal 3:26
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Yes that word children here is the same greek word huios = Son !
And its because we were always Sons secretly even in Adam Lk 3:23, because of the Work of Christ to deliver us from the fall in him, The Spirit of Adoption is sent into our hearts to declare our Adoption Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
And with the Spirit is effected the Fruit of Faith Gal 5:22 by which we come to Faith in Christ Jesus Gal 3:26.
Also Gal 4:6 is the fulfillment of the Covenant Promise to Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
All of this was Predestinated by God according to His choosing us in Christ before the foundation
TibiasDad
Active Member
TibiasDad
Active Member
In the first place, Paul is writing to those who are already believers. All that is spoken of hereafter is about that particular class of individuals and all who might become believers in the future.
This plan, for this class of people, which has always been the intent of God, even before the creation of the world, is “that we should be holy and blameless in love”
And the means by which he has chosen to accomplish his purpose, is by adoption by Jesus Christ; which implies that the fall of man was always foreseen and a remedy for this abdication of man was already in place.
So the emphasis of predestined is on the character of the class of those who are in Jesus Christ, and on the means by which they would both become “in Jesus Christ” and become “holy and blameless” in character.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Again, the means by which we are children of God is the point: “by faith in Christ Jesus”.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Nothing says we have always been sons! It says that God has sent his Spirit to be in those who have believed to intercede for us “crying abba, Father.”
“Because you are sons” is a present tense indicative statement indicating a present reality and nothing more can be inferred.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
@TibiasDad
Of course he is, scripture is only written to believers. My point is they were predestinated to become believers Eph 1:5
Of course he is, scripture is only written to believers. My point is they were predestinated to become believers Eph 1:5
brightfame52
Active Member
They were always Children of God even as unbelievers, that's why Christ came to redeem them, they were children His brethren Heb 2:14
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Vs 13 They were children prior to putting their trust in Him !
brightfame52
Active Member
It says it to me, thats what matters, my testimony isnt yours Thank God
TibiasDad
Active Member
I am not talking about your testimony or mine; those being the story of our lives prior to Christ, how we came to know him, and what has happened since we believed.
We are talking about hermeneutics, interpreting scripture, understanding its message to us and the rest of the world regarding salvation and eternity and how we are to live as witnesses of Christ in this world.
Soteriology is the theological study of salvation, it is not our “testimony” per se, but our belief of what scripture teaches about how we are saved.
Doug
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