Redeemed from unbelief !

[FreeInChrist]

Thats false and unscriptural

Scripture consistently shows that salvation, justification, and receiving eternal life occur when a person believes—not before. Verses like Acts 16:31, Romans 5:1, and John 3:16 all place faith before salvation. The Bible also says unbelievers are still under God’s wrath (John 3:36), which means they are not yet saved prior to believing. The idea that someone is saved before faith is a theological inference, not a direct biblical statement.

Scripture consistently shows belief comes before salvation. “Believe…and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31), “justified by faith” (Romans 5:1). The Bible never says someone is saved before they believe—that’s a theological assumption, not a direct verse.

The Bible says “believe and be saved,” not “be saved so you can believe.”

God drawing or convicting someone isn’t the same as saving them. Scripture still places justification and eternal life at the point of faith, not before it.

 

[brightfame52]

no one is redeemed or saved before they first hear the gospel, then believe the gospel. I already corrected it with plenty of scriptures that expose your view as unbiblical.

Everyone Christ died for and obtained eternal redemption for Heb 9:12 there eternal destiny is secured from the penalty of sin, their being heirs of an eternal inheritance is sure, and in due time they will be called Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture consistently shows that salvation, justification, and receiving eternal life occur when a person believes—

No it doesnt. Redemption provides a legal benefit, freed from the penalty of sin b4 the elect person is born a transgressor.

 

[civic]

Everyone Christ died for and obtained eternal redemption for Heb 9:12 there eternal destiny is secured from the penalty of sin, their being heirs of an eternal inheritance is sure, and in due time they will be called Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

typical ISOLATION of a verse TORN out of the context of Hebrews which amounts to your typical eisegesis.

no one is an heir apart from faith, no one is redeemed apart from faith, no ones sins are forgiven apart from faith which is mentioned more than 30 times in Hebrews.

next fallacy

 

[brightfame52]

typical ISOLATION of a verse TORN out of the context of Hebrews which amounts to your typical eisegesis.

Sorry but its in the context. Those whom He redeemed by His death are redeemed from the penalty of sin forever, eternal redemption, and unto an inheritance which is eternal, and that b4 they were born, thats Christ work

 

[civic]

Sorry but its in the context. Those whom He redeemed by His death are redeemed from the penalty of sin forever, eternal redemption, and unto an inheritance which is eternal, and that b4 they were born, thats Christ work

no thats already been debunked

 

[brightfame52]

no thats already been debunked

In your imagination

 

[FreeInChrist]

No it doesnt. Redemption provides a legal benefit, freed from the penalty of sin b4 the elect person is born a transgressor.

Redemption being accomplished by Christ is not the same as it being applied to a person. Scripture consistently says the benefits—justification, forgiveness, and eternal life—are received through faith, not before it (Acts 16:31, Romans 5:1, John 3:16).

If someone were already freed from the penalty of sin before believing, then John 3:36 wouldn’t say unbelievers are still under God’s wrath.

The Bible never directly says a person is justified or freed from sin’s penalty before they believe—that’s a theological conclusion being read into the text, not stated by it.

 

[FreeInChrist]

In your imagination

Whoever your teacher is, if he is/was being paid he needs to be fired. If you are self taught then there lies the problem

 

[brightfame52]

Redemption being accomplished by Christ is not the same as it being applied to a person.

Yes its been applied legally, it was a transaction between Christ and the Father. Once Christ completed the redemptive death for the offenders, God released the offenders of the debt they owed Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

This is what has been obtained for them between God the Son and the Father, the word redemption lytrōsis:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Now are you denying this ? Do you deny He has obtained by His blood deliverance from the penalty of their sins ?

 

[Doug Brents]

If every sin of every believer has been atoned for, would it not be right to conclude that the sin of unbelief, that sin which for so long kept the believer from God, and evidenced his dead spiritual state, has also been taken out of the way? If not, then the sin of unbelief has not been done away with, not even for the elect, and there is no atonement for it. The penalty it has incurred has not been paid, and, therefore, no one can possibly come to God, for the sin of unbelief reigns supreme, being untouched by the blood of Christ.https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-38

There is a HUGE difference between what Jesus did on the cross and having the benefit of His sacrifice applied to your life.

On the cross, Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of every person who has ever lived or will ever live. The cost has been paid. But only those who accept Him will be accepted by Him and have that sacrifice applied to their individual sins. As Jesus said, if you confess me before men, then I will confess you before the Father. If you deny me (notice that there are only these two options, failure to do one (confessing Him) is doing the other (denying Him)) then I will deny you before the Father (Matt 10:32). The sin has been paid for, but the choice of whether Jesus claims us or denies us is up to us and our actions.

 

[brightfame52]

There is a HUGE difference between what Jesus did on the cross and having the benefit of His sacrifice applied to your life.

Fasle, His Death on the Cross and Benefits includes its application. Why you think the elect, even while enemies[unbelievers] are nevertheless reconciled to God, while others are not ? Rom 5:10 because Christs death has been legally applied.

 

[Doug Brents]

Fasle, His Death on the Cross and Benefits includes its application. Why you think the elect, even while enemies[unbelievers] are nevertheless reconciled to God, while others are not ? Rom 5:10 because Christs death has been legally applied.

The price for our sin was paid while we were enemies. But it is not applied to us until we accept Jesus and surrender to Him as our Lord, as opposed to having Satan as our lord. Again, read and understand John 12:42-43 and Matt 10:32. They demonstrate the falsehood of your entire theology.

 

[brightfame52]

The price for our sin was paid while we were enemies.

Yeah including unbelief. God doesnt hold that sin against the elect because if He did, they could not be reconciled to God. The unbeliever who isnt reconciled to God is under His wrath Jn 3:36

36 ;He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

See the difference ? One set of enemies are under wrath of God, the other enemies are reconciled to God which denotes peace with God

 

[Doug Brents]

Yeah including unbelief. God doesnt hold that sin against the elect because if He did, they could not be reconciled to God. The unbeliever who isnt reconciled to God is under His wrath Jn 3:36

36 ;He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

See the difference ? One set of enemies are under wrath of God, the other enemies are reconciled to God which denotes peace with God

Is it deliberate misunderstanding, or do you really not comprehend what God is saying here?

Those who repent of disbelief and choose to accept Jesus receive forgiveness for the sin of disbelief (they receive the benefit of Jesus' sacrifice) and the wrath of God for their disbelief is removed.
Those who do not repent of unbelief, His wrath remains (abides) upon them.

 

[brightfame52]

Is it deliberate misunderstanding, or do you really not comprehend what God is saying here?

Yeah but apparently you dont

 

[Doug Brents]

Yeah but apparently you dont

So you do deliberately misunderstand? You are right, I don't misunderstand; I understand what God is saying quite well. But as a friend of mine has in his office, "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

 

[brightfame52]

So you do deliberately misunderstand?

No its you who dont understand, I laid it out plain as the noon say sun with scripture

 

[Doug Brents]

No its you who dont understand, I laid it out plain as the noon say sun with scripture

"Therefore, everyone who confesses Me before people, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before people, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."
Tell me, in the verse above, who must act first?

 

[brightfame52]

Ransomed out of unbelief !

Many today dont realize [because they are spiritually blinded] that unbelief/disobedience is part of God's Justice for sin; hence Paul writes God has concluded [in Justice] all in unbelief/disobedience , for the purpose of having mercy upon them all Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all

32 God has ·given [imprisoned] all people ·over to their stubborn ways [L to/in disobedience] so that he can show mercy to all.EXB

The word concluded does mean to consign, shut up, or to imprison, so by nature all men , including the Elect, are imprisoned by God into unbelief/disobedience !

The all in Rom 11:32 are all the Vessels of Mercy, like as in Rom 9:23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

God imprisoned the Vessels of Mercy into unbelief so that He can demonstrate upon them His Mercy !

Now Christ came to give His Life a ransom for many Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Now the word ransom lutron means:

the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation.

literally, the ransom-money (price) to free a slave. 3083 (lýtron) is used in the NT of the ultimate "liberty-price" – the blood of Christ which purchases (ransoms) believers, freeing them from all slavery (bondage) to sin.

The word above manumitting for slaves means:

To free from slavery or bondage; emancipate.

Now what all this means is all for whom Christ gave His life a ransom for, must be released from all servitude and slavery, imprisonment of sin and unbelief, disobedience.

Yes this means the ransomed must experience a liberation from the Justice of unbelief/disobedience, because Christ's Life blood was the ransom payment that satisfied God's Law and Justice, so in Justice God authorizes and performs their release, this as a visible token indicating that Christ's Blood truly indeed was a sufficient payment for their release ! It was the Blood of the Covenant Zech 9:11

11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

God would be Unjust to the ransom blood of Christ, if any for whom He gave His Life a ransom for die in their sins in unbelief Like these Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Thats because they , if Christ died for them, should have been ransomed out of unbelief !