Predestination and Determinism

[praise_yeshua]

these do not appear hopeless

It seems not hardening would have led to

John 12:40 (ESV) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

them repenting and being saved

thus they could believe

I don't believe you understand what I wrote.

These are Reprobate. God can, if He chose, overpower them. Above all things, God demands sincerity in those who "come to him".

Does the grass in the field have a relationship with God? Do stones have a relationship to God?

I gave an extended explanation of how God rightfully and within the confines of His own character, references such actions in John 12:40.

Do you believe God could restore Satan if He so chooses? Would it be against His own character to have mercy on whom He will have mercy?

Consider how the Calvinist willing ignores how God demands sincerity of love returned from a freewill from His creation and rejects the "stones" He could fashion into children to Abraham.

Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

God has plenty of "things" that obey His every command without question. Relationship demands MORE.....

@civic is talking about Aseity now. Aseity demands that God needs nothing. God is self satisfying. God will win the will of man or He will not have them at all.

 

[Presby02]

now put your thinking cap on with PSA and the Tri-Unity of Gods Aseity.

I'm sure you are capable of seeing the ELEPHANT in the room right ?

LOL, I am not doing your work for you. You made a claim so back it up. I don't have to do anything but say, nope. Let's hear it

 

[TomL]

I don't believe you understand what I wrote.

These are Reprobate. God can, if He chose, overpower them. Above all things, God demands sincerity in those who "come to him".

Does the grass in the field have a relationship with God? Do stones have a relationship to God?

I gave an extended explanation of how God rightfully and within the confines of His own character, references such actions in John 12:40.

Do you believe God could restore Satan if He so chooses? Would it be against His own character to have mercy on whom He will have mercy?

Consider how the Calvinist willing ignores how God demands sincerity of love returned form a freewill from His creation and rejects the "stones" He could fashion into children to Abraham.

Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

God has plenty of "things" that obey His every command without question. Relationship demands MORE.....

@civic is talk about Aseity in another thread now. Aseity demands that God needs nothing. God is self satisfying. God will win the will of man or He will not have them at all.

If they were able to see and understand and could turn - repent if not hardened I do not see how they could be considered reprobate

 

[civic]

I don't believe you understand what I wrote.

These are Reprobate. God can, if He chose, overpower them. Above all things, God demands sincerity in those who "come to him".

Does the grass in the field have a relationship with God? Do stones have a relationship to God?

I gave an extended explanation of how God rightfully and within the confines of His own character, references such actions in John 12:40.

Do you believe God could restore Satan if He so chooses? Would it be against His own character to have mercy on whom He will have mercy?

Consider how the Calvinist willing ignores how God demands sincerity of love returned form a freewill from His creation and rejects the "stones" He could fashion into children to Abraham.

Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

God has plenty of "things" that obey His every command without question. Relationship demands MORE.....

@civic is talk about Aseity now. Aseity demands that God needs nothing. God is self satisfying. God will win the will of man or He will not have them at all.

notice as expected the dialogue with the person will not get past asking questions instead of engaging Gods Aseity. This happened on the other forum when I challenged all the calvinists there to the Trinity forum to discuss Gods attributes. They all caved and started their usual ad hominem attacks.

 

[civic]

LOL, I am not doing your work for you. You made a claim so back it up. I don't have to do anything but say, nope. Let's hear it

PSA divides God, separates Father/Son, wrath from God to God among many other things which oppose Aseity.

God has no needs remember the definition. PSA declares God has needs.

OOPS..............

next Elephant in the room coming.........................

 

[praise_yeshua]

If they were able to see and understand and could turn - repent if not hardened I do not see how they could be considered reprobate

Okay. I ask that you consider what I wrote. I believe you are oversimplifying/ "boiling down " this "meal". The result is you're losing what is needed in the "pot". I'll leave you to your thoughts. Thanks

 

[Presby02]

PSA divides God, separates Father/Son, wrath from God to God among many other things which oppose Aseity.

God has no needs remember the definition. PSA declares God has needs.

OOPS..............

next Elephant in the room coming.........................

Huh? LOL That's all you got 40 years? Again, another assertion with no evidence provided.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If they were able to see and understand and could turn - repent if not hardened I do not see how they could be considered reprobate

Reprobates come from being "cut off". This is part of the cutting off process.

 

[TomL]

Okay. I ask that you consider what I wrote. I believe you are oversimplifying/ "boiling down " this "meal". The result is you're losing what is needed in the "pot". I'll leave you to your thoughts. Thanks

well, I will consider, but I cannot see how one can escape the idea Jesus was holding back revelation for a reason

 

[praise_yeshua]

well, I will consider, but I cannot see how one can escape the idea Jesus was holding back revelation for a reason

That was never in question to me. I'm disagreeing with you on various parts of how you're constructing this.

 

[civic]

Huh? LOL That's all you got 40 years? Again, another assertion with no evidence provided.

lol the GIANT ELEPHANT

take off those blinders.

PSA means God has needs. Aseity says otherwise.

I knew you were incapable of following logic, reason and the Tri-Unity that was broken with PSA and the cross with Gods wrath being poured out on the Son and the Father forsaking Him- separating Himself from the Son.

next ELEPHANT to be exposed coming right up.

 

[praise_yeshua]

lol the GIANT ELEPHANT

take off those blinders.

PSA means God has needs. Aseity says otherwise.

I knew you were incapable of following logic, reason and the Sri-Unity that was broken with PSA and the cross with Gods wrath being course out on the Son and the Father forsaking Him- separating Himself from the Son.

next ELEPHANT to be exposed coming right up.

"Ain't" it pitiful..... they don't mind insisting that Christ HAD to be separated from God for them....

Go much for their endless false claims that they always appeal to "GRACE".

 

[civic]

"Ain't" if pitiful..... they don't mind insisting that Christ HAD to be separated from God for them....

Go much for their endless false claims that they always appeal to "GRACE".

Yes it makes a mockery out of God. The real love of God ( Aseity - God is love ) demonstrated in the Atonement escapes them.

 

[Presby02]

lol the GIANT ELEPHANT

take off those blinders.

PSA means God has needs. Aseity says otherwise.

I knew you were incapable of following logic, reason and the Tri-Unity that was broken with PSA and the cross with Gods wrath being poured out on the Son and the Father forsaking Him- separating Himself from the Son.

next ELEPHANT to be exposed coming right up.

Is that what it means? Who says?

Offer some logic and reason and let's see. LOL

All assumed by mere statements and no argument is really offered.

For instance, you assume the tri-unity was broken yet Christ cries out why have you forsaken me.

 

[civic]

Is that what it means? Who says?

Offer some logic and reason and let's see. LOL

All assumed by mere statements and no argument is really offered.

For instance, you assume the tri-unity was broken

did the Father forsake the Son? yes or no

define forsaken

end of discussion. you don't know it yet but you are in a lose lose situation, I'm in a win win with the Unity of the Trinity.

you opened yourself up to this not me.

 

[Presby02]

did the Father forsake the Son? yes or no

define forsaken

end of discussion.

Civic is now denying the very words of our Lord Himself.

Foresaken: "abandoned or deserted"

Mark 15:34

OPPS

 

[civic]

Civic is now denying the very words of our Lord Himself.

Mark 15:34

OPPS

I see you refuse to define it for a good reason as you are incapable of reconciling the scriptures with Gods Aseity.

I can and have many times with Psalm 22:1.

PSA has God divided against God- God forsaking God.

Down goes Aseity and the Tri-Unity of God.

next

 

[Presby02]

I see you refuse to define it for a good reason as you are incapable of reconciling the scriptures with Gods Aseity.

I can and have many times with Psalm 22:1.

PSA has God divided against God- God forsaking God.

Down goes Aseity and the Trinity.

next

I did define it genius. See post #536

Civic is denying our Lords vert words.

Slide slide slippty slide

 

[civic]

I did define it genius. See post #536

Civic is denying our Lords vert words.

Slide slide slippty slide

quoting scripture is not defining a word.

define forsaken or will you continue to run away from it and remain in denial ?

once you do you are history when it comes to the Trinity and Gods Aseity.

No wonder you are avoiding it like the plague.

The ELEPHANT is GROWING larger with every reply.

 

[Johann]

PSA makes Aseity a lie.

If you know what it actually means then PSA is exposed as a lie and an assault on Gods innate character/Being.

Game over for you now

Nope.