Peter, James and Barnabas were very wrong..... Why accept 1 and 2nd Peter or James?

DavidTree said:
I find the account between Paul and Peter extremely helpful.

The LORD knowing all things did this for us = YES for us who are Jew & Gentile in MESSIAH!!!

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

3As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

5And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”

13Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”

15But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

What Bible would you have today if Adonai did not choose Paul and fill him with the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...
My complete Jewish ✡️ Bible.
 
David Koberstein said:
My complete Jewish ✡️ Bible.
Click to expand...

Hello David,
We share a good name and as you know, means 'beloved' or 'favored'.

When i think of the word 'beloved' i immediately remember this: Matthew 3:17

Then Yeshua came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
But Yeshua answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Can we be 'beloved' as the FATHER loves His SON???


YES, but only if we abide in the Love of His SON

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:
therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that,
when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Now the Apostle John says this can only come about one WAY.

You see, the Path to Righteousness is a One WAY Path that leads to LIFE.
YESHUA is the Holy One and the WAY that we are to follow that leads us Home to our Heavenly FATHER.

SHALOM
 
DavidTree said:
I find the account between Paul and Peter extremely helpful.

The LORD knowing all things did this for us = YES for us who are Jew & Gentile in MESSIAH!!!

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

3As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

5And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”

13Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”

15But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

What Bible would you have today if Adonai did not choose Paul and fill him with the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...
Let me ask you...

The animal sacrifice under the Law...what was it for?

The answer is that God commanded the sacrifice yearly to atone temporarily for the sins of the children of Israel under the Law. Was the sacrifice ever done to atone for non-Hebrew Gentiles who were never under the Law? The answer is "No, it was never for non-Hebrew Gentiles who were never under the Law."

Is it true Jesus Christ was the Lamb of God who was sent under the Law to atone as the Lamb of God for the sins of the children of Israel just as the animal was sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel? Isn't it true Jesus Christ died as substitute in the role of the animal sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel?
The answer is, "Yes, Jesus was substitute for the animal that was sacrificed under the Law for the sins of the children of Israel."

Now you know for whom Christ died for.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

So, adding non-Hebrew Gentiles as part of the atonement Christ made is to add to the bible things that are not there and such teaching breaks Scripture, the very Scripture Jesus said CANNOT be broken.
 
DavidTree said:
Hello David,
We share a good name and as you know, means 'beloved' or 'favored'.

When i think of the word 'beloved' i immediately remember this: Matthew 3:17

Then Yeshua came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
But Yeshua answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Can we be 'beloved' as the FATHER loves His SON???


YES, but only if we abide in the Love of His SON

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:
therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that,
when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Now the Apostle John says this can only come about one WAY.

You see, the Path to Righteousness is a One WAY Path that leads to LIFE.
YESHUA is the Holy One and the WAY that we are to follow that leads us Home to our Heavenly FATHER.

SHALOM
Click to expand...
If you would read the Jewish ✡️ Didache you will discover 2 WAYS. One is the WAY of Life and the other one is the WAY of Death.
Shalom
 
jeremiah1five said:
Let me ask you...

The animal sacrifice under the Law...what was it for?

The answer is that God commanded the sacrifice yearly to atone temporarily for the sins of the children of Israel under the Law. Was the sacrifice ever done to atone for non-Hebrew Gentiles who were never under the Law? The answer is "No, it was never for non-Hebrew Gentiles who were never under the Law."

Is it true Jesus Christ was the Lamb of God who was sent under the Law to atone as the Lamb of God for the sins of the children of Israel just as the animal was sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel? Isn't it true Jesus Christ died as substitute in the role of the animal sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel?
The answer is, "Yes, Jesus was substitute for the animal that was sacrificed under the Law for the sins of the children of Israel."

Now you know for whom Christ died for.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

So, adding non-Hebrew Gentiles as part of the atonement Christ made is to add to the bible things that are not there and such teaching breaks Scripture, the very Scripture Jesus said CANNOT be broken.
Click to expand...
Christians are increasingly coming to appreciate their "Jewish roots." Many have gone beyond merely acknowledging that Jesus was
a Jew, that the early disciples and apostles were Jewish, or that Christianity has come out of Judaism. They are searching out the Jewish
roots of their own faith. They are respecting and even loving the Jews. They are doing what they can to bless the Jewish people, in
recognition of Genesis 12:3, "I will bless those who bless you, but I will curse anyone who curses you; and by you all the families of the
earth will be blessed."
But there is a deeper reason for paying attention to the Jewish people, a reason that ultimately must shake the very identity of a
Christian to its core. The foundational text is Ephesians 2:11-13, which says;

Therefore, remember your former state: you Gentiles by birth-called the Uncircumcised by those who, merely because of an operation
on their flesh, are called the Circumcised-at that time had no Messiah. You were estranged from the national life of Israel. You were
foreigners to the covenants embodying God's promise. You were in this world without hope and without God. But now, you who were
once far off have been brought near through the shedding of the Messiah's blood.

So, according to this passage, what is it that God, through his Messiah Yeshua, does for human beings?
The answer:
(1) He makes them conscience of what sin is, and through Yeshua the Messiah he offers forgiveness of sin (this is taught in the ten verses
preceding the above citation).
Then, if they are Gentiles (such as Paul is addressing here) and therefore do not already belong to his own special people, the People of God.
(2) he makes them part of the People of God.
(3) he makes them participate in his covenants.
(4) he fulfills his promises.
(5) he gives them hope in this difficult world, and finally,
(6) he makes his very self known to them.

If they are Jews and therefore do belong to the People of God, they already have items (2) through (6) and do not need to be given
them again. I'll say it differently: Jews already have (2) through (6) and the only new thing that comes to them through Yeshua is (1).
Thus, assured forgiveness of sin is the last thing Jews get. Gentiles get forgiveness of sin first, but it is only through Yeshua connection
that Gentiles gain covenants, the promises, hope and intimacy with God. It is only because and when they have been joined to the Jews
that they get these things. Jews have them already---but without the forgiveness of sins through Yeshua's atoning death they gain
nothing thereby in the world to come.

There is a sequencing to these six truths, and the sequencing is different for Jews than for Christians. Sequencing may seem an
unimportant detail, but I submit that at this time getting it right is the most important challenge facing the Body of Messiah!

David H. Stern The Church's Biggest Challenge More than Just "Loving" the Jews
 
praise_yeshua said:
This is an academic exercise to show just how ill prepared the average Christian is to defend their canon of choice".....

These are questions that caused bible.org to abandon their forum in the early 2000s.

Paul's letter itself details how Peter was living in sin for a significant amount of time.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Notice how this particular "James" was in sin himself....

If these men acted like this for an extended time, which evidently they did, then why trust their writings?

Did Peter repent? Did James change?

Again. This is an academic exercise in your ability to defend the veracity of the NT as canonized among both Catholics and Protestants.
Click to expand...
I evaluated possible explanations of what led Peter to separate. The only theory that explained James' innocence in the matter is that he sent men to Peter concerning a threat of harm against Peter for mixing with gentiles. Peter acted in fear and separated in order to please the persecutors. Peter therefore violated unity of the church by returning to this work of the law. It also was an illegitimate basis under the law since God had instructed Jews to welcome the stranger in their midst.
 
mikesw said:
I evaluated possible explanations of what led Peter to separate. The only theory that explained James' innocence in the matter is that he sent men to Peter concerning a threat of harm against Peter for mixing with gentiles. Peter acted in fear and separated in order to please the persecutors. Peter therefore violated unity of the church by returning to this work of the law. It also was an illegitimate basis under the law since God had instructed Jews to welcome the stranger in their midst.
Click to expand...

I believe this scenario is unlikely due to the words of Paul.

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he had clearly done wrong.
 
David Koberstein said:
The Tree of Life Version is also another good Messianic Jewish Bible
Click to expand...

I believe that translation shouldn't be tailored to particular believers. Notes are fine but when making "word choices", it matter most if those words accurately communicate the thought/idea/premise or not. Let every man make his own choice to believe whatever comes out of that process.
 
praise_yeshua said:
I believe that translation shouldn't be tailored to particular believers. Notes are fine but when making "word choices", it matter most if those words accurately communicate the thought/idea/premise or not. Let every man make his own choice to believe whatever comes out of that process.
Click to expand...
I believe that translation shouldn't be tailored to particular believers
Click to expand...
Care to extrapolate
 

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