Peter, James and Barnabas were very wrong..... Why accept 1 and 2nd Peter or James?

[praise_yeshua]

This is an academic exercise to show just how ill prepared the average Christian is to defend their canon of choice".....

These are questions that caused bible.org to abandon their forum in the early 2000s.

Paul's letter itself details how Peter was living in sin for a significant amount of time.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Notice how this particular "James" was in sin himself....

If these men acted like this for an extended time, which evidently they did, then why trust their writings?

Did Peter repent? Did James change?

Again. This is an academic exercise in your ability to defend the veracity of the NT as canonized among both Catholics and Protestants.

 

[Fred]

This is an academic exercise to show just how ill prepared the average Christian is to defend their canon of choice".....

These are questions that caused bible.org to abandon their forum in the early 2000s.

Paul's letter itself details how Peter was living in sin for a significant amount of time.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Notice how this particular "James" was in sin himself....

If these men acted like this for an extended time, which evidently they did, then why trust their writings?

Did Peter repent? Did James change?

Again. This is an academic exercise in your ability to defend the veracity of the NT as canonized among both Catholics and Protestants.

I don't see where James sinned, but I do with Peter.

 

[David Koberstein]

This is an academic exercise to show just how ill prepared the average Christian is to defend their canon of choice".....

These are questions that caused bible.org to abandon their forum in the early 2000s.

Paul's letter itself details how Peter was living in sin for a significant amount of time.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Notice how this particular "James" was in sin himself....

If these men acted like this for an extended time, which evidently they did, then why trust their writings?

Did Peter repent? Did James change?

Again. This is an academic exercise in your ability to defend the veracity of the NT as canonized among both Catholics and Protestants.

I will stick with my Messianic Jewish Bible and the Jewish Didache.
Thank you Toda Raba תודה לך

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't see where James sinned, but I do with Peter.

The men that were from James did what Peter did.

Why did the church at Jerusalem reject Gentiles for years when Christ set them free when He died? How many Gentiles never heard the Gospel from Jerusalem?
These were men like @jeremiah1five and the prophet Jonah.

 

[David Koberstein]

The men that were from James did what Peter did.

Why did the church at Jerusalem reject Gentiles for years when Christ set them free when He died? How many Gentiles never heard the Gospel from Jerusalem?
These were men like @jeremiah1five and the prophet Jonah.

Gentiles at that time was too much into pagan idols and worship. Messianic Jews didn't want that cancer to infect their synagogues.
Shalom

 

[praise_yeshua]

Gentiles at that time was too much into pagan idols and worship. Messianic Jews didn't want that cancer to infect their synagogues.
Shalom

The God you claim sent Jonah to a very corrupt and sinful city called Nineveh. Do you remember that narrative?

Jews really seem to hate others. Are you not a son of Adam just like other human being in this world?

Just image what would have happened if Israel wasn't under Gentile rule when Jesus came into this world? You do realize that Jesus said very plainly that His Kingdom is not of this world......

If Israel had not been controlled by Gentiles, the Scribes and Pharisees would have murdered their own and sought to remove Gentiles from the face of this earth.

David was a kind King. He loved the children of Benjamin and the remnants of King Saul. He had pity for this world.

 

[David Koberstein]

Still spreading your false narrative. NEWS FLASH! We (Israel)are trying to get rid of the cancer of Gentiles from Gaza and the West Bank. Stay tuned for future developments.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Still spreading your false narrative. NEWS FLASH! We (Israel)are trying to get rid of the cancer of Gentiles from Gaza and the West Bank. Stay tuned for future developments.

You're fighting and killing your own brethren in Ishmael. Even Isaac loved Ishmael......

Gen 25:9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;

They both honored Abraham in death.....

You need to stop listening to your fathers that sought to murder Jesus Christ. Embrace Christ. Christ is longsuffering and kind to His enemies.

 

[Studyman]

This is an academic exercise to show just how ill prepared the average Christian is to defend their canon of choice".....

These are questions that caused bible.org to abandon their forum in the early 2000s.

Paul's letter itself details how Peter was living in sin for a significant amount of time.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Notice how this particular "James" was in sin himself....

If these men acted like this for an extended time, which evidently they did, then why trust their writings?

Did Peter repent? Did James change?

Again. This is an academic exercise in your ability to defend the veracity of the NT as canonized among both Catholics and Protestants.

According to the Gospel of Christ, that Paul promoted, true believers are on a journey towards a "High Calling" which is in the Lord's Christ. He and Jesus called it "perfection" as defined by God. In the Gospel of Christ, where it is written, "The just shall live by faith", there are examples of this spiritual journey "to show us in the way that we should go", AKA, "For our admonition".

God promised to "drive out the nations" (deceptions, traditions of man, sinful thoughts, etc.) on our journey.

Duet. 7 20 Moreover the LORD thy God will send the hornet among them, until they that are left, and hide themselves from thee, be destroyed. 21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible. 22 And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee. 23 But the LORD thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed.

It is also written that the Gospel of Christ is Spiritual, and we do not fight against flesh and blood, but powers of the air in our mind. (High Places" where the temple of God exists). Joshua taught the children of Israel the same thing.

Peter still had Jewish traditions in his mind. One such tradition was the teaching that;

Acts 10: 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It was not against God's Law to associate with a non-Jew who sojourned among them. In fact, they were to accept them as one born among them. It was a commandment/tradition that the Jews taught for doctrine, not God, that Peter was promoting. Peter was still influenced by this doctrine in Galatians, and as a brother is supposed to do, Paul pointed out to him, "to his face" "before them all", that others may fear.

This is one way God reveals the imperfections of men to them as Paul also teaches.

Phil. 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, "God shall reveal even this unto you".

God was driving the sinful influences of the world they traveled through, on their Exodus from sin and deception to the promised land, "Be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect". And just as HE promised, HE doesn't do it all at once, but little by little, for our sakes no doubt.

So for me, this NT story reflects exactly the journey of Peter, a true believer, as shown in the Gospel of Christ where from within it is written, "The Just shall live by Faith". The sting of an honest rebuke is the perfect remedy for pride and self-exaltation. No doubt Peter hung his head in sorrow unto repentance. Because God gave Peter to Jesus, and Jesus doesn't lose anyone.

There is nothing in this story that promotes that the Bible is corrupt. God used the Catholic religion to preserve His Word, in the same way He used Pharoah to preserve Jacob.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Peter still had Jewish traditions in his mind. One such tradition was the teaching that;

Acts 10: 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It was not against God's Law to associate with a non-Jew who sojourned among them. In fact, they were to accept them as one born among them. It was a commandment/tradition that the Jews taught for doctrine, not God, that Peter was promoting. Peter was still influenced by this doctrine in Galatians, and as a brother is supposed to do, Paul pointed out to him, "to his face" "before them all", that others may fear.

This is one way God reveals the imperfections of men to them as Paul also teaches.

Brother, can you recognize the impact of sin that Peter, James and Baranabus had on Gentiles. I see excuses from your comments. Not recognition of how Gentiles became victims of powerful men's actions. How many Gentiles died without God because of this?

Phil. 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, "God shall reveal even this unto you".

God was driving the sinful influences of the world they traveled through, on their Exodus from sin and deception to the promised land, "Be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect". And just as HE promised, HE doesn't do it all at once, but little by little, for our sakes no doubt.

So for me, this NT story reflects exactly the journey of Peter, a true believer, as shown in the Gospel of Christ where from within it is written, "The Just shall live by Faith". The sting of an honest rebuke is the perfect remedy for pride and self-exaltation. No doubt Peter hung his head in sorrow unto repentance. Because God gave Peter to Jesus, and Jesus doesn't lose anyone.

Peter knew better. They resisted the Holy Spirit. We all do. Can I get on that "inspiration" list? You're basically saying that God uses sinful men. I agree. Then define the limits of why anyone should completely trust what they say/write?

There is nothing in this story that promotes that the Bible is corrupt. God used the Catholic religion to preserve His Word, in the same way He used Pharoah to preserve Jacob.

What about the Gentiles that never heard?????????????

What about this "preservation" you're claiming that left countless people out of hearing the Scriptures? There are several problems here that Christian leaders do not accurate recognize.

As a pastor yourself, (I've been a pastor myself), you shouldn't use the "authoritive" argument you're using above to excuse the impact of sin among leaders. We recognize the sin of David. The sin of King Saul. Apply it equal to all men. Ourselves and the NT leadership included.

We should rightful recognize that inerrancy is a ridiculous argument when it is used the way you're using it. We are thousands of years removed from the origins of writings you're referencing as the "Bible". They have all been affected by the sinfulness of men. We should rightfully recognize this. There are times Paul is wrong. There are times when James is wrong. I mean Paul even rightfully recognized that he had stolen wages from other churches to do Corinth service. He might have had no choice but the facts are clear that he did. He confessed he did.

"Inspired" confession? You might can try to make that argument. I'd like to listen to it. Please do.

 

[David Koberstein]

You're fighting and killing your own brethren in Ishmael. Even Isaac loved Ishmael......

Gen 25:9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;

They both honored Abraham in death.....

You need to stop listening to your fathers that sought to murder Jesus Christ. Embrace Christ. Christ is longsuffering and kind to His enemies.

First of all they are not my brethren. Brethren don't murder 1200 Jews. These people are Muslims which is about on the same level as Christianity. I already told you I am a follower and worshipper of Yeshua Hamashiach. What part of that don't you understand?
Shalom

 

[praise_yeshua]

First of all they are not my brethren. Brethren don't murder 1200 Jews. These people are Muslims which is about on the same level as Christianity. I already told you I am a follower and worshipper of Yeshua Hamashiach. What part of that don't you understand?
Shalom

You're a descendent of Adam and Eve. Abraham is beholding to his father Adam and his mother Eve. So are you.

So is every man. Failure to recognize that you're killing your brothers is nothing more than a false justification for you actions. I'm all for Israel taking actions against those who murder them but don't pretend you're not killing the innocent as well. You find comfort in "an eye for an eye" when Jesus said....

Luk_6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

 

[David Koberstein]

You're a descendent of Adam and Eve. Abraham is beholding to his father Adam and his mother Eve. So are you.

So is every man. Failure to recognize that you're killing your brothers is nothing more than a false justification for you actions. I'm all for Israel taking actions against those who murder them but don't pretend you're not killing the innocent as well. You find comfort in "an eye for an eye" when Jesus said....

Luk_6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

The innocent is called collateral damage. There was plenty of it in the Tanakh.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The innocent is called collateral damage. There was plenty of it in the Tanakh.

Am I "collateral damage"?

 

[David Koberstein]

I don't know are you?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't know are you?

It is philosophical question. I think you might see most anyone as "collateral damage". I hope not.

 

[David Koberstein]

No I don't see everyone as collateral damage. We all are broken human beings and only Yeshua can make us whole again.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No I don't see everyone as collateral damage. We all are broken human beings and only Yeshua can make us whole again.

Great. I just ask that that thought always stays "top of mind" for you!

 

[jeremiah1five]

The men that were from James did what Peter did.

Why did the church at Jerusalem reject Gentiles for years when Christ set them free when He died? How many Gentiles never heard the Gospel from Jerusalem?
These were men like @jeremiah1five and the prophet Jonah.

The Gentiles they rejected absolutely were non-Hebrew Gentiles. Non-Hebrew Gentiles also rejected and hated the Jews.

The Gentiles that James and the rest of the Jews rejected were Samaritan-type Jew-Gentile people because they didn't see them as true Jews or Abraham's seed. They were "mutts" to the Jews who at that time could for the most part trace their heritage back to Jacob.

The animal sacrifice was offered under the Law for the children of Israel who were under God's Law. IF Christ fulfilled the Law - which He did - then He as substitute for the animal sacrifice died under the Law for the children of Israel who were the children of Isaac who were the children of Abraham. That's why they call Abraham their father.

Back in 522 BC only a remnant (10%) of all Hebrews/Jews returned to Israel while the majority (90%) remained where they were IN GENTILE LANDS. How many generations of Jews could be born in 500 years before Christ? Several. And they did not all grow up as Jews in a Hebrew culture. They were influenced by Greek culture that's why they were called Hellenized. They assimilated to Greek culture STILL being Abraham's seed. And BECAUSE they were Abraham's seed God is obligated to keep His Promises to Abraham and as long as they were of Abraham's seed no matter the dilution of the DNA, they were still inheritors of the promises (Gal. 3:28-29.)

The Samaritan woman in John 4 was closer to home. She lived on a plot of land claimed by Jacob. She drew water from one of Jacob's wells. But she was half-Jew and half-Assyrian or some other non-Hebrew stock. But Jesus dealt with her as a daughter of Abraham and she was an inheritor of Abe's covenant promises BECAUSE SHE WAS STILL Abraham's seed no matter the dilution of Abe's DNA. God knows. That woman in John 4 was half-Jew and half-Assyrian. Even if she married a non-Hebrew and every generation continued to have children with more non-Hebrews. Even if this went on for 100 generations God would know and God would choose out of those offspring just who to save as He choose Jacob and not Esau even though Esau was a direct full-blood seed of Abraham.

I know what Scripture says. God made covenant with Abraham and his seed. ANYONE who is a seed of Abraham no matter the DNA dilution is still the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:28-29.) Why did Saul say "Greek" in Gal. 3:28? Why didn't he say Gentile or Roman or Moabite? Because he was referring to half-Jew half Gentile seed of Abraham who grew up in Greek culture. Hellenized.

But you and others want to see "Gentile" in the New Testament as non-Hebrew, and this would BREAK SCRIPTURE that says Abraham and his seed in Gen. 17.
Every "Gentile" in the NT would have to be Abraham's seed in dilution or God is a liar in Genesis 17 when He said the covenant is with Abraham and HIS SEED (non-Hebrews do not come from his seed. But half Jews do, or quarter Jews or one-eighth Jews, etc. God knows. He made promise to Abraham that his seed would be as the stars in heaven. This can only be done through intermarriage. That's why God scattered the Jews four times in history. Four times! And they were scattered into all the world. There are about 6-9 million Jews living in Israel today. But how many are half Jews living everywhere else in the world? Or quarter Jews, or one-eighth Jews? God knows. And one day God will call out every seed of Abraham He scattered into Gentile lands and bring them into their own land (Rev. 5.) "Out of."

 

[DavidTree]

This is an academic exercise to show just how ill prepared the average Christian is to defend their canon of choice".....

These are questions that caused bible.org to abandon their forum in the early 2000s.

Paul's letter itself details how Peter was living in sin for a significant amount of time.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Notice how this particular "James" was in sin himself....

If these men acted like this for an extended time, which evidently they did, then why trust their writings?

Did Peter repent? Did James change?

Again. This is an academic exercise in your ability to defend the veracity of the NT as canonized among both Catholics and Protestants.

I find the account between Paul and Peter extremely helpful.

The LORD knowing all things did this for us = YES for us who are Jew & Gentile in MESSIAH!!!

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

3As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

5And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”

13Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”

15But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

What Bible would you have today if Adonai did not choose Paul and fill him with the Holy Spirit?