brightfame52
Active Member
No it's not
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
I only used the KJV for RB for that is the only translation he will read.
I do not like KJV... I use others but never that since I no longer exchange with him.
NASB95 is preferred then we go from there.
Yeah, it is.
The whole world equals all mankind.
Every man equals all mankind.
All men equals all mankind.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Still waiting, bf. It is too easy to define "all" and "the whole world". Why won't you give us your definition? What are you afraid of?
brightfame52
Active Member
This is old now. Back to nobody can believe in or come to Christ by their own freewill
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Yet I did.
Actually the Bible says the exact opposite in many places:
@brightfame52 ... Here is an idea... why dont you copy these same verses from your translation of choice... NOT KJV.... and
let us compare word for word as to the meaning ?
John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”... “Whoever” (Greek πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων) means anyone who chooses to believe.
John 7:17 (Jesus speaking)“If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God…”..... Jesus says people do have a will that can choose.
Acts 2:40 Peter ends his sermon: “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” ..... Direct command to choose salvation.
Revelation 22:17“The Spirit and the Bride say, ‘Come.’ And let the one who desires take the water of life without price.” .....Salvation is offered to whoever is willing.
Joshua 24:15 (quoted all the time in free-will circles)“Choose this day whom you will serve… But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
John 1:12“But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.”
The Bible is full of invitations, commands, and “whoever” statements that treat belief as a real, responsible choice.
If nobody can believe by their own will, then every single one of those verses is meaningless.
The gospel is offered — people are commanded to repent and believe — and the Bible never says that ability is taken away from everyone.
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brightfame52
Active Member
No man can come to Christ believe on him by their own free will John 6:44, 65
Doug Brents
Active Member
The only reason this is "old now" is because you are unwilling to accept the truth.
You have admitted that you cannot prove that through Scripture. But when you admit to the proper definition of "all" and "the whole world", you will see that Scripture does say that Christ died for everyone, not just your "elect".
FreeInChrist
Active Member
But I did .
civic
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
You not the standard, scripture is Jn 6:44,65
Doug Brents
Active Member
You keep posting that verse. I do not think it means what you think it means.
You are misinterpreting that verse. As you have been told many times, Jesus drew ALL MANKIND to Himself when He was crucified (John 12:32).
brightfame52
Active Member
No He drew all who comes to Him and believes on Him!
Doug Brents
Active Member
Again, that is not what Scripture says. That is what your personal doctrine says, but it disagrees with Scripture and so is invalid. What does Scripture actually say?
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself."
"all people", not just the "elect", not just the Jews, not just some of the people; ALL PEOPLE!
John 6:45 (NASB 95) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
John 20:31 (NASB 95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Faith is granted by the word of God
Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.
Romans 10:6–14 (NASB 95) — 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Romans 1:16 (NASB 95) — 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I know.
The simple truth is.... Being a child of God isn’t just following rules or going through the motions; it’s a real, living relationship. We actually know Him and talk to Him like a Father, not like robots on a program.
As God’s children, we have a personal, living relationship with Him ...
Jesus says in John 15:15 No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.
and Romans 8:15–16 is mind blowing when you have this. 15. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God. It’s not cold, mechanical obedience; it’s the intimacy of crying ‘Abba! Father!’ and being led by His Spirit.
“As His child, I have this living, heart-to-heart relationship because I chose to come to the Father through Jesus. That free ‘Yes’ I gave Him was the very thing He was waiting for. He didn’t drag me or program me; He drew me with love as in your John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
and when I willingly said ‘I want You,’ He ran to meet me and made me His own. Because it was my choice, the closeness feels real, personal, and mutual—not something just handed down from above, but a love I reached for and He joyfully gave.”
“My closeness with the Father is so precious because I chose Him. He offered, I said yes with all my heart, and that willing choice is what turned His open arms into the embrace I now live in every day.”
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes He draws all who believes in Him. That's the result of the drawing, believing oh Him. The ones He draws He draws them to Himself!
brightfame52
Active Member
Correct that's the result of Vs 44
brightfame52
Active Member
Okay then. Scriptures are the standard Jn 6 44 65
