No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[TomL]

Man's will/heart is in the Hand of the Lord and He turns it as He will. Our will is not free from that

So you falsify scripture

contrary to scripture you make God the source of all of man's evil

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

 

[TomL]

By nature they were children of wrath, not vessels of wrath, the vessels of wrath are fitted for destruction Rom 9, you are not rightly dividing the word of God. These children of wrath by nature are recipients of Great Love and Rich Mercy, which you ignore

You ignored the part when they were children of wrath

Ephesians 2:3 (NASB 95) — 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Did you forget you claimed those children of wrath were justified all along

According to scripture however

Ephesians 2:12 (NASB 95) — 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Your claim they were justified from birth is erroneous.

 

[brightfame52]

You never said anything to which to pay attention

So why are you responding to my post

 

[brightfame52]

Which means they were born of vessels of wrath

No it doesn't mean that in fact they were born vessels of Mercy

 

[brightfame52]

So you falsify scripture

When that sounds like a false accusation

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored the part when they were children of wrath

They were not the vessels of wrath that God made to fit for destruction not ever, they were the vessels of Mercy election of Grace look at Ephesians 1:4

 

[TomL]

They were not the vessels of wrath that God made to fit for destruction not ever, they were the vessels of Mercy election of Grace look at Ephesians 1:4

You are ignoring the point raised

You ignored the part when they were children of wrath

Ephesians 2:3 (NASB 95) — 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Did you forget you claimed those children of wrath were justified all along?

According to scripture however

Ephesians 2:12 (NASB 95) — 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Your claim they were justified from birth is erroneous

 

[TomL]

When that sounds like a false accusation

Not that you show

Contrary to scripture, you make God the source of all of man's evil.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

 

[brightfame52]

You are ignoring the point raised

No you are, they have never been said to be the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. They were in fact predestinated in love, until the adoption of children

 

[TomL]

No it doesn't mean that in fact they were born vessels of Mercy

You ignored the part when they were children of wrath

Ephesians 2:3 (NASB 95) — 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Did you forget you claimed those children of wrath were justified all along?

According to scripture however

Ephesians 2:12 (NASB 95) — 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Your claim they were justified from birth is erroneous

 

[Administrator]

I repeat:

This is getting old time to move on to something more uplifting.

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored the part when they were children of wrath

That's not a vessel of wrath

 

[Administrator]

That's not a vessel of wrath

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

 

[TibiasDad]

So why are you responding to my post

Because you are wrong in your argument. No verse states that salvation precedes belief! Zero! Nada, Zilch!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

No it doesn't mean that in fact they were born vessels of Mercy

Are they born sinful?
Is sinfulness an object of God’s wrath?

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

They were in fact predestinated in love, until the adoption of children

Now that is the premise for discussion: are we predestined by God to be what we are and will be in eternity?

If this is false, your argument based on it is necessarily false as well.

Doug