No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[brightfame52]

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !

 

[TedT]

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !​

No sinner can but all the holy elect angels did by their free will...are you suggesting that they are not persons?

 

[brightfame52]

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !​

No sinner can but all the holy elect angels did by their free will...are you suggesting that they are not persons?

Here you come with a rabbit trail

 

[Kampioen]

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come to the Son except the Father draws them to synergistically/libertarianly believe in Jesus. ... Then they will come and Jesus will efficiently/monergistically raise them up at the last day. ... Otherwise they won't come.

 

[brightfame52]

No man can come to Christ by his own freewill ability because by nature he is dead in trespasses and sins and without spiritual life and ability to do or act. So consequently he cant come and believe on Christ of himself, or of his own freewill.

 

[brightfame52]

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come to the Son except the Father draws them to synergistically/libertarianly believe in Jesus. ... Then they will come and Jesus will efficiently/monergistically raise them up at the last day. ... Otherwise they won't come.

Thats false, drawing by God is regeneration, new creation.

 

[TibiasDad]

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

No, it means that the Father has to act first through the extension of hope in the gospel. Through the Holy Spirit we become aware of our sin and guilt, as well as the only remedy to that condition. Conviction is the act of divine drawing to his grace. Those who believe will be raised on the last day by Christ!

We have no ability to obligate God to do our bidding. We cannot cause God do anything that God does not want to do.
We cannot come to Christ solely by our own power or means.

We are always in the position of being a respondent to God’s actions and grace. We are free to respond as we desire to what God has done on our behalf. That is the extent of our “freedom”, but it is nonetheless very real and imperative in God’s economy.

Doug

 

[Peterlag]

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !

John 6:44 is addressed to Israel and probably only when Jesus was on the Earth.

 

[TibiasDad]

Thats false, drawing by God is regeneration, new creation.

The Greek word, “helko” is used eight times. Six times it refers to objects such as water or swords. These are literal interpretations of helko. The other two contexts of helko, John 6:44 and 12:32, are metaphorical applications in relation to the souls of men.

6:44, Reformed thought says, represents God drawing (effectually regenerating) men and keeping them through the final resurrection.

But 12:32 speaks of Christ drawing “all men” to himself when he is crucified. But “drawing” cannot mean “effectually regenerating” because “all men” are not saved.

So the “drawing” of men by God cannot be a literal drawing, but rather, as Thayer says it is “metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας ... ἑλκουσης ἐπίἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆςἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

No, it means that the Father has to act first through the extension of hope in the gospel. Through the Holy Spirit we become aware of our sin and guilt, as well as the only remedy to that condition. Conviction is the act of divine drawing to his grace. Those who believe will be raised on the last day by Christ!

We have no ability to obligate God to do our bidding. We cannot cause God do anything that God does not want to do.
We cannot come to Christ solely by our own power or means.

We are always in the position of being a respondent to God’s actions and grace. We are free to respond as we desire to what God has done on our behalf. That is the extent of our “freedom”, but it is nonetheless very real and imperative in God’s economy.

Doug

The Father must give life, the drawing is regeneration imparted inwardly. It then effects conversion to Faith in Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

John 6:44 is addressed to Israel and probably only when Jesus was on the Earth.

No its not only addressed to Israel. Jesus says NO MAN , that covers all ethnicities born of adam

 

[brightfame52]

John 6:44 is addressed to Israel and probably only when Jesus was on the Earth.

No its not only addressed to israel. Jesus says NO MAN , that covers all ethnicities born of adam

The Greek word, “helko” is used eight times. Six times it refers to objects such as water or swords. These are literal interpretations of helko. The other two contexts of helko, John 6:44 and 12:32, are metaphorical applications in relation to the souls of men.

6:44, Reformed thought says, represents God drawing (effectually regenerating) men and keeping them through the final resurrection.

But 12:32 speaks of Christ drawing “all men” to himself when he is crucified. But “drawing” cannot mean “effectually regenerating” because “all men” are not saved.

So the “drawing” of men by God cannot be a literal drawing, but rather, as Thayer says it is “metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας ... ἑλκουσης ἐπίἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆςἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)

Doug

I know about the greek word, drawing is regeneration, its an impartation of an inward power, spiritual life. Its the New Covenant blessings application Jer 31:33-34

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[brightfame52]

The Greek word, “helko” is used eight times. Six times it refers to objects such as water or swords. These are literal interpretations of helko. The other two contexts of helko, John 6:44 and 12:32, are metaphorical applications in relation to the souls of men.

6:44, Reformed thought says, represents God drawing (effectually regenerating) men and keeping them through the final resurrection.

But 12:32 speaks of Christ drawing “all men” to himself when he is crucified. But “drawing” cannot mean “effectually regenerating” because “all men” are not saved.

So the “drawing” of men by God cannot be a literal drawing, but rather, as Thayer says it is “metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας ... ἑλκουσης ἐπίἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆςἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)

Doug

Another thing the Drawing here and in Jn 12:32 is in accordance with the promises of the New Covenant with Gods elect, the House of Israel, not all mankind, Jesus was lifted up, died in Jn 12:32 as the Mediator Surety for the New Covenant people of God, Israel, which is the Church. Now drawing is promised in the covenant promises in these words in Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you[inward power], and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

See that word cause ? It corresponds to the drawing ! Its the word ʿāśâ:
To do, to make, to accomplish, to perform, to act

1. to do, work, make, produce
   
   1. to do
   2. to work
   3. to deal (with)
   4. to act, act with effect, effect
2. to make
   
   1. to make
   2. to produce

Also the drawing in either scripture Jn 12:32/Jn 6:44 is only for a chosen covenant people. The word draw scholars surmise has an affinity to a greek word αἱρέω:

to take for oneself, i.e. to prefer and the word is translated chosen in 2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

And if you notice the work of the Spirit follows, which is a covenant blessing and no doubt connected to the drawing.

So Jn 12:32 can only mean all the elect or chosen of God since Christs death in is accordance with the New Covenant Matt 26:28 !

 

[civic]

No, it means that the Father has to act first through the extension of hope in the gospel. Through the Holy Spirit we become aware of our sin and guilt, as well as the only remedy to that condition. Conviction is the act of divine drawing to his grace. Those who believe will be raised on the last day by Christ!

We have no ability to obligate God to do our bidding. We cannot cause God do anything that God does not want to do.
We cannot come to Christ solely by our own power or means.

We are always in the position of being a respondent to God’s actions and grace. We are free to respond as we desire to what God has done on our behalf. That is the extent of our “freedom”, but it is nonetheless very real and imperative in God’s economy.

Doug

Amen brother!!!

 

[Peterlag]

No its not only addressed to israel. Jesus says NO MAN , that covers all ethnicities born of adam

I know about the greek word, drawing is regeneration, its an impartation of an inward power, spiritual life. Its the New Covenant blessings application Jer 31:33-34

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You guys have problems with words like "All" and "No Man" that you only have when reading the Bible and I don't know why. For example when we read Colossians 1:16 and see the word "All" you guys (all of you) see all meaning everything. Yet if your mother says your cousin ate all the cookies last night. That word "All" does not mean every cookie in the world. You guys have serious English grammar problems.

 

[brightfame52]

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The drawing of the Father of some to come to/believe in Christ is actually the Father giving them to His Son Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Again Jn 6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This is the only way a man can come to believe in Christ, it can be only by the will of the Father, not mans so called freewill.

See the natural mans will as he is, is dead, spiritually dead in sin, hes in a hopeless lost state, and not only cannot come, but will not come /believe Jn 5:40, and Rom 3:11.

The word given in Jn 6:65 and giveth in Jn 6:37 is the same word δίδωμί and it means:

to give one to some one as his own: as the object of his saving care, to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master,

God is said to have given certain men to Christ, i. e. to have disposed them to acknowledge Christ as the author and medium of their salvation, and to enter into intimate relations with him, hence Christ calls them 'his own' (τὰ ἐμά, John 10:14).

So we have God causing them to be willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

 

[brightfame52]

You guys have problems with words like "All" and "No Man" that you only have when reading the Bible and I don't know why. For example when we read Colossians 1:16 and see the word "All" you guys (all of you) see all meaning everything. Yet if your mother says your cousin ate all the cookies last night. That word "All" does not mean every cookie in the world. You guys have serious English grammar problems.

Aint no problem save in your mind. Jesus is simply speaking of men in general. No man has the ability to believe in Him

 

[Peterlag]

Aint no problem save in your mind. Jesus is simply speaking of men in general. No man has the ability to believe in Him

Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand, and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation.

 

[TibiasDad]

I know about the greek word,

Apparently not… helko and paliggenesia are not synonymous! They are distinct steps in the process of becoming a new creation in Christ! One comes before the other just like on Sesame Street. It’s not rocket science!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Another thing the Drawing here and in Jn 12:32 is in accordance with the promises of the New Covenant with Gods elect, the House of Israel, not all mankind

“All the world”, not all the X of the world!
Israel was chosen to be an example for God’s plans for the whole of Adam’s fallen race.

Gentiles could become “Jews” in the OT. They could partake in the Passover if they were circumcised. No one was excluded if they were willing to follow God’s teachings.

Doug