civic
Well-known member
Yep and satan is the god of this world.
Muhammad is not Equal to Jesus But Jesus is Equal to Allah!
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
Azriel
Well-known member
While the primary purpose of outreach is of course to offer the message of salvation and life abundant to our Muslim brothers and sisters, there are also some very powerful benefits that we receive as well when reaching out to Muslims. Regardless of how mature a believer you are, anyone who enters into deep religious dialogue with Muslims will be challenged. You see, most Muslims spend a lot of time training themselves to argue with Christians. Eventually, you will find your core beliefs challenged.
The good news, however, is that through challenge comes strengthening. My personal encounters with Muslims have caused immense growth in terms of my personal revelation and understanding of my own faith. I have never meditated more on the wonders of the incarnation, the Trinity, or the Cross than I have during the periods that I am engaged with Muslims who vehemently oppose all of these doctrines.
Is it at all surprising, then, that many of those who have reached out to Muslims have walked in a powerful revelation of the very issues that Islam denies? A wonderful example is Samuel Zwemer. Zwemer was a forerunner in ministry to Muslims who lived through the turn of the last century. One of Zwemer’s books, The Glory of the Cross, is a classic that should read by every Christian.
Its title says it all— as a result of his encounter with Muslims, Zwemer walked in a deeper revelation of the glory of the Cross. And thus it will be with us as well. As we approach Muslims, the purpose is not only to introduce them to the real Jesus in order that they can be converted, but equally in order that we might find ourselves in an ongoing and continual state of “conversion” and transformation as well.
AFTER 9/11, lots of things were said about Islam, some of them contradictory, and many of them by people with believable credentials. My wife and I didn’t know what to think, so we started looking into it. We read lots of materials — pro-Islam books, anti-Islam books, and classic Islamic doctrines, like the Quran. We’ve been on an ten-year learning binge.
Islam is an active and vital religion, and it is growing. It is having an increasingly powerful influence on world affairs. And most people in the free world do not even know the most basic facts about it, and yet make the assumption that Islam must be similar to other religions they are familiar with. This widespread assumption could have unexpected consequences because Islam is different than all other religions in many important ways.
The purpose of this site is to begin the education process for non-Muslims who don’t know much about Islam but are curious about it. Once your interest has been piqued, your next step is to read the Quran yourself. Fortunately, reading the Quran has been made relatively easy. Learn more about that here: An Easier Way to Read the Quran
The good news, however, is that through challenge comes strengthening. My personal encounters with Muslims have caused immense growth in terms of my personal revelation and understanding of my own faith. I have never meditated more on the wonders of the incarnation, the Trinity, or the Cross than I have during the periods that I am engaged with Muslims who vehemently oppose all of these doctrines.
Is it at all surprising, then, that many of those who have reached out to Muslims have walked in a powerful revelation of the very issues that Islam denies? A wonderful example is Samuel Zwemer. Zwemer was a forerunner in ministry to Muslims who lived through the turn of the last century. One of Zwemer’s books, The Glory of the Cross, is a classic that should read by every Christian.
Its title says it all— as a result of his encounter with Muslims, Zwemer walked in a deeper revelation of the glory of the Cross. And thus it will be with us as well. As we approach Muslims, the purpose is not only to introduce them to the real Jesus in order that they can be converted, but equally in order that we might find ourselves in an ongoing and continual state of “conversion” and transformation as well.
AFTER 9/11, lots of things were said about Islam, some of them contradictory, and many of them by people with believable credentials. My wife and I didn’t know what to think, so we started looking into it. We read lots of materials — pro-Islam books, anti-Islam books, and classic Islamic doctrines, like the Quran. We’ve been on an ten-year learning binge.
Islam is an active and vital religion, and it is growing. It is having an increasingly powerful influence on world affairs. And most people in the free world do not even know the most basic facts about it, and yet make the assumption that Islam must be similar to other religions they are familiar with. This widespread assumption could have unexpected consequences because Islam is different than all other religions in many important ways.
The purpose of this site is to begin the education process for non-Muslims who don’t know much about Islam but are curious about it. Once your interest has been piqued, your next step is to read the Quran yourself. Fortunately, reading the Quran has been made relatively easy. Learn more about that here: An Easier Way to Read the Quran
Azriel
Well-known member
Free Book
When you realize the true nature of Islam, you may want to persuade others. Then you discover that they have their minds filled with the "establishment" version of Islam and give you their justifications that support it. This book is written for those who want to be effective in persuading others about the true nature of Islam. You learn the powerful method of fact-based reasoning. Since 9/11 these methods have been used to change the minds of supporters of Islam from all political backgrounds.
Anyone, whether they are liberals, progressives, leftists or conservatives, can all be persuaded to see the truth in light of the facts about Islam. Since the methods used in this book are based on the sacred source texts of Islam, those who have read the Trilogy of Koran, Sira and Hadith will obtain the full benefit. Others can learn from the examples, but the more facts you have, the better your results.
If you want to understand the Trilogy, go to www.politicalislam.com where you can learn about Islam's doctrine with the Foundations of Islam, A Self-Study Course.
Factual Persuasion: Changing the Minds of Islam’s Supporters
Bill WarnerWhen you realize the true nature of Islam, you may want to persuade others. Then you discover that they have their minds filled with the "establishment" version of Islam and give you their justifications that support it. This book is written for those who want to be effective in persuading others about the true nature of Islam. You learn the powerful method of fact-based reasoning. Since 9/11 these methods have been used to change the minds of supporters of Islam from all political backgrounds.
Anyone, whether they are liberals, progressives, leftists or conservatives, can all be persuaded to see the truth in light of the facts about Islam. Since the methods used in this book are based on the sacred source texts of Islam, those who have read the Trilogy of Koran, Sira and Hadith will obtain the full benefit. Others can learn from the examples, but the more facts you have, the better your results.
If you want to understand the Trilogy, go to www.politicalislam.com where you can learn about Islam's doctrine with the Foundations of Islam, A Self-Study Course.
Clifford
Active member
Looks like Bible prophecy to me. More terror from the religion of peace.
www.foxnews.com
Videos of Hamas brutality toward Israelis eerily reminiscent of ISIS tactics
Hamas terrorists uploaded videos onto social media showing the terrorists taking woman and children, among others, hostage while screaming "God is great."
Azriel
Well-known member
I hear you. End times prophecy indeed.
www.frontpagemag.com
Israel’s 9/11
One side is civilization – the other is barbarism.
Israel’s 9/11 | Frontpage Mag
One side is civilization – the other is barbarism.
It is sad that unless we evangelize the muslims, they will all perish, with the demonic false teacher Mohammed, [no peace upon him}
I have a mandate from Scriptures to preach the gospel-I don't have a radio or a TV but follow the war via my computer on YouTube and my prayer is With YisraEL and the bereaved families AND all the innocents caught up in this war from BOTH sides.
We are a war-torn country ourselves.
civic
Well-known member
Great answer my friend.
SteveB
Well-known member
Hi.
This is an interesting quote.
It shows an ignorance of Jesus.
I've long been taught that Allah doesn't have a son.
I finally came to terms with this and realized that Allah doesn't have to have a son.
YHVH however DOES have a Son.
As such, this tells me that Allah and YHVH are NOT the same Person.
Not by any stretch of the word.
And I'm fine with that.
The problem then arises here...
According to Isaiah 43, 44, 45, etc...
There are NO OTHER GODS.
YHVH and YHVH alone is God.
It is however written in Deuteronomy 32:17
Deu 32:17 WEB They sacrificed to demons, not God, to gods that they didn’t know, to new gods that came up recently, which your fathers didn’t dread.
I.e., and yes, I understand the sh88show this opens up....
Allah is a demon.
In light of the violence throughout history, perpetrated by Muslims, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he's the devil himself.
Jesus did say,
Joh 10:10 WEB The thief only comes to steal, kill, and destroy. I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.
As well as
Joh 16:1-4 WEB 1 “I have said these things to you so that you wouldn’t be caused to stumble. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers service to God. 3 They will do these things because they have not known the Father nor me. 4 But I have told you these things so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you about them. I didn’t tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.
Sam Shamoun-very outspoken-too outspoken for my liking.
A Series of Answers to Common Questions
Sam Shamoun
Question:
According to Deuteronomy 6:4 there is only one Yahweh God. Jesus himself quoted this in Mark 12:29 to prove that God is one. Since Jesus quotes this as one of the greatest commandments doesn’t this prove that he didn’t believe in a Triune God or in his Divinity?
Answer:
Before we begin discussing the implication and meaning of Jesus’ words we first would like to quote these specific passages, beginning with Deuteronomy 6:4:
"Hear O Israel, Yahweh our God Yahweh is One (Shema Yisrael Yahweh Eloheinu Yahweh Echad)."(1)
And now, here is the immediate context of Mark 12 in order to more fully appreciate Jesus’ point:
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, ‘Which commandment is the most important of all?’ Jesus answered, ‘The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one (kyrious ho theos hemon kyrios heis estin). And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." The second is this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." There is no other commandment greater than these.’ And the scribe said to him, ‘You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one (hoti heis estin), and there is no other besides him. And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.’ And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, ‘You are not far from the kingdom of God.’ And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions." Mark 12:28-34
Heis is a singular masculine adjective which in this context modifies kyrios. The verb estin is functioning here as a copula (linking verb) of predication (to state or affirm as an attribute or quality of the subject), i.e. "he is one Lord."
The problem here is that this doesn’t tell us the exact type of oneness that the Bible writers are predicating or attributing to God, i.e. is he a single Being with a single essence that encompasses a plurality of attributes and/or Persons? Or does his essence preclude his having multiple attributes and/or Persons? To put it simply, what does it exactly mean that God is one?
When one carefully examines the Holy Bible God’s unity cannot mean that he has only one attribute since the Scriptures are filled with references to the multiplicity of characteristics that God has such as love, mercy, compassion, justice, righteousness, perfection etc.
"And he said, ‘I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name "The LORD." And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.’" Exodus 33:19
"The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, ‘The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.’" Exodus 34:6-7
"The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he." Deuteronomy 32:4
"Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love … So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him." 1 John 4:8, 16
Nor can this mean that God is one in Person since both the NT Scriptures and the Hebrew Bible emphatically testify that there are multiple Persons of God. For instance, here is what Jesus went on to say right after he quoted the Shema or Deuteronomy 6:4:
"And as Jesus taught in the temple, he said, ‘How can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself, in the Holy Spirit, declared, "The Lord (kyrios) said to my Lord (to kyrio mou), ‘Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet.’" David himself calls him Lord (kyrion). So how is he his son?’ And the great throng heard him gladly." Mark 12:35-37
Christ was referring to the following Psalm where David’s Lord is exalted above his enemies and is given victory in battle to destroy them:
"The utterance of Yahweh to my Lord (Adoni): ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.’ Yahweh sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies! Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours. Yahweh has sworn and will not change his mind, ‘You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.’ The Lord (Adonai) is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath. He will execute judgment among the nations, filling them with corpses; he will shatter chiefs over the wide earth. He will drink from the brook by the way; therefore he will lift up his head." Psalm 110:1-7
Interestingly, the Lord who is at Yahweh’s right hand is called Adonai in verse 5, a title that is used extensively for Yahweh God. Note, once again, what verse 1 says:
"The utterance of Yahweh to my Lord is: ‘Sit at MY right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.’"
Now compare this with verse 5:
"The Lord is at YOUR right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath."
In the context "your right hand" obviously refers to Yahweh's right hand since in verse 1 the Psalter has already made mention of it, i.e. "My right hand." This supports the fact that the Adonai of verse 5 is the same Lord of verse 1 since both are said to be at Yahweh's right hand. Hence, David's Lord, the Messiah, is called Adonai, a name that is often applied to Yahweh!
The other important thing to note about this particular Psalm is that there is an interesting variant that is found in the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible (Septuagint [LXX]), one that points to the preexistence of David’s Lord:
With You is dominion in the day of Your power, in the splendors of Your saints; I have begotten You from the womb before the morning. Psalm 110:3 LXX (Source)
The official Catholic version of the Holy Bible, the New American Bible (NAB), adopted this reading over against the Hebrew version:
"Yours is princely power from the day of your birth. In holy splendor before the daystar, like the dew I begot you."
3 [3] Like the dew I begot you: an adoption formula as in Psalm 2:7; 89:27-28. Before the daystar: possibly an expression for before the world began (Proverbs 8:22). (Source)
Evidently, the translators of the Septuagint believed that this text supported the view that not only was David’s Lord already existing at the time this particular Psalm was composed, but that he was also there with God before the creation of the world!
The Septuagint basically concurs with the theology of the Fourth Gospel which quotes Jesus as saying:
"And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed… Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24
With the foregoing in perspective we can more fully appreciate Jesus’ point: By appealing to this particular Psalm the Lord wanted to call attention to the fact that the Messiah is more than a human descendant of David, since he is also his sovereign Lord. Moreover, the context of the Psalm provides the reason why the Messiah is David’s Lord, and therefore greater than his human ancestor; the former is a preexistent Divine figure that was there with God even before David came into being!
Hence, even though Jesus said that the Lord God is one he went on to speak of two Persons as Lord, namely, both his Father and himself.
Jesus doesn’t stop there since this is what he also said earlier in Mark 12:
"He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ And they took him and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard." Mark 12:6-8
In this parable, the owner of the vineyard represents God and the servants represent his prophets:
"From the day that your fathers came out of the land of Egypt to this day, I have persistently sent all my servants the prophets to them, day after day." Jeremiah 7:25
"You have neither listened nor inclined your ears to hear, although the LORD persistently sent to you all his servants the prophets, saying, ‘Turn now, every one of you, from his evil way and evil deeds, and dwell upon the land that the LORD has given to you and your fathers from of old and forever.’" Jeremiah 25:4-5
What makes this rather amazing is that Christ doesn’t identify himself as one of the servants but as the Owner’s beloved Son and Heir!
It isn’t merely the NT that affirms God’s Uniplurality, the OT Scriptures also confirm this truth:
"I will recount the steadfast love of the LORD, the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD has granted us, and the great goodness to the house of Israel that he has granted them according to his compassion, according to the abundance of his steadfast love. For he said, ‘Surely they are my people, children who will not deal falsely.’ And he became their Savior. In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the Angel of his Presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit, who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name, who led them through the depths? Like a horse in the desert, they did not stumble. Like livestock that go down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD gave them rest. So you led your people, to make for yourself a glorious name. Look down from heaven and see, from your holy and beautiful habitation. Where are your zeal and your might? The stirring of your inner parts and your compassion are held back from me. For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name." Isaiah 63:7-16
Here, the redemption of Israel from Egypt is attributed to Yahweh God the Father, the Angel or Messenger (malak) of his Presence (panim– lit., "faces"), and his Holy Spirit.
It should be noted that both the Hebrew and Greek words for angel simply mean a messenger, not necessarily a spirit being with wings (1, 2).
Moreover, the evidence from the Hebrew Bible shows that this particular Messenger or Angel is not a creature but a theophany (an appearance of God), or more precisely a christophany (preincarnate appearances of Christ).
In the Qur'an we find the following two statements:
39:4
Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son,
He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create:
but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.)
He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible. (Yusuf Ali)
If Allah had willed to choose a son,
He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
Be He Glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute. (Pickthall)
6:101
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth;
How can He have a son when He has no consort?
He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.
Sura 39:4 and 6:101 agree on the actuality, that Allah does not have a son, but they contradict each other in the issue of ability or possibility.
Sura 39:4 clearly states that God could have taken Himself a son from among his creation, i.e. without the necessity of a consort to father such a son. But Sura 6:101 clearly rejects the same idea as a logical impossibility.
39:4
Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son,
He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create:
but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.)
He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible. (Yusuf Ali)
If Allah had willed to choose a son,
He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
Be He Glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute. (Pickthall)
6:101
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth;
How can He have a son when He has no consort?
He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.
Sura 39:4 and 6:101 agree on the actuality, that Allah does not have a son, but they contradict each other in the issue of ability or possibility.
Sura 39:4 clearly states that God could have taken Himself a son from among his creation, i.e. without the necessity of a consort to father such a son. But Sura 6:101 clearly rejects the same idea as a logical impossibility.
Jay
Member
Getting to Know Muhammad | Frontpage Mag
From Robert Spencer, another must-read on Islam.
Then there’s the matter of the so-called Satanic Verses, which, in utter contradiction to everything said about infidels in the now-standard text of the Koran, described the gods to which certain non-Muslims prayed as authentic and deserving of worship. Did Muhammad concoct these verses knowingly and willingly – or was he under the sway of Satan when he propounded them? In any event, he reversed himself soon enough on these verses – and by doing so raised a couple of uncomfortable queries in the minds of believers. On the one hand, if he was indeed fooled by Satan in this instance, who was to say that the entire Koran hadn’t been dictated to him by the great deceiver? On the other hand, if he invented those verses out of whole cloth, how could anyone be sure that this was not the case with every single word of the Koran?
DavidTree
Well-known member
the unholy trinity is coming together as we speak
1- the unrepentant Jews/Israel
2 - the unrepentant RCC and Her children which are the many denominations that have fallen away and are continuing to fall away from the Truth
3 - ISLAM - the Last Uprising against the LORD Jesus Christ and those who belong to Him
This unholy trinity will, and ARE, saying that "all religions who worship god point to the same mountain"
Blood washed saints "who KNOW the Echad True Elohim" will be Strong in the Word by the Power of the Ruach HaKodesh
“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31And [n]forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall [o]corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by [p]intrigue. 35And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.
Daniel ch11
