Yeah let's do that
Muhammad is not Equal to Jesus But Jesus is Equal to Allah!
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
Johann
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
For the readers and guests about the real gospel and the real Jesus.
Gospel literally means " good news ". What is the good news ?
the Greek word is where we get our English word from evangelism
euaggelion: good news
Original Word: εὐαγγέλιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: euaggelion
Phonetic Spelling: (yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on)
Definition: good news
Usage: the good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).
There is One God
There is One Lord
There is One Faith
There is One Baptism
There is One Jesus
There is only One way to God
There is One Savior
And there is One Gospel
Galatians 1:6
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
So since there is only One God, One Savior, One way to God through Christ, One faith, One baptism and One Gospel- there is only one way to be saved.
Paul defines that Gospel by which we are saved below:
1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
Only One way to be saved, by One Person, One Gospel and One Faith. In Him alone. Scripture is really very exclusive here but inclusive to all that come to Him freely!
And Paul received this gospel directly from Christ by personal revelation
Galatians 1:11-12
I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
This gospel is Eternal !
Revelation 14:6
Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Jesus passed on the gospel to His Disciples. Its the same Gospel but Christ had not suffered, died, risen yet. The disciples didn't understand the Passion until after His Resurrection, they were in denial.
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.” — John 13:7,19
After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. — John 2:22
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. — Matthew 16:21
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!” — Matthew 20:17-19
After His Resurrection
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. — Luke 24:25-27
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. — Luke 24:44-45
Are you teaching others the one true Gospel ?
Ones salvation depends upon the one true gospel !
The gospel is Christological or Christ centered. The message is about Jesus. So, the question becomes one of identity. Who is Jesus? Let’s see what Scripture declares about the identity of Jesus and the salvation message. We see in the opening of Matthews’s gospel that Jesus is identified as Immanuel which means literally that God is with us. In Luke’s gospel we see that Jesus was born the Savior of the world. In John’s gospel we read that the Word was with God and the Word became flesh. We beheld His Glory. We also read in the same gospel (meaning good news) that God sent His Son to be the Savior. Where did He send Him from? Jesus gives us the answer to the question in 17:5. He was together with the Father before creation and shared His Glory which is Gods alone. Jesus also tells His followers why do you ask to see the Father? To see Me is to see the Father. The Father and I are One. Basically, He is telling them He is God, you are looking at Him. This is why the Pharisees tried to stone Him on many occasions for claiming to be God (see John 8:56-60)
Also, we see the His Apostles identify Jesus as God. Thomas in John 20:28. Paul in Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13. Peter in 2 Peter 1:1,11. Hebrews 1-2, Jude and John in 1 John 1 and 5:20. Also the entire book of Revelation.
Acts it declares there is no other name given by which men must be saved! Not the name of the Father, not the name of the H.S. but the name of Jesus who represents the Godhead.
So, the gospel is Christ centered and one must know in whom they are placing their faith in to be saved.
Can I place my faith in Paul and be saved?
Can I place my faith in Peter and be saved?
Can I place my faith in Mary and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the pope and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the Holy Spirit and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the Father and be saved?
Can I place my faith in a god and be saved?
The answer to the above is a resounding no according to Scripture. There is no other name by which men must be saved period, end of story.
So, one must know and understand who the gospel is about and what He did for us. He came from heaven as God to earth as a man to die for the sins of the world. This is the gospel by which men must be saved. He rose from the dead by the power of the Godhead (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) together raised Jesus the man from the dead.
hope this helps,
Gospel literally means " good news ". What is the good news ?
the Greek word is where we get our English word from evangelism
euaggelion: good news
Original Word: εὐαγγέλιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: euaggelion
Phonetic Spelling: (yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on)
Definition: good news
Usage: the good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).
There is One God
There is One Lord
There is One Faith
There is One Baptism
There is One Jesus
There is only One way to God
There is One Savior
And there is One Gospel
Galatians 1:6
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
So since there is only One God, One Savior, One way to God through Christ, One faith, One baptism and One Gospel- there is only one way to be saved.
Paul defines that Gospel by which we are saved below:
1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
Only One way to be saved, by One Person, One Gospel and One Faith. In Him alone. Scripture is really very exclusive here but inclusive to all that come to Him freely!
And Paul received this gospel directly from Christ by personal revelation
Galatians 1:11-12
I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
This gospel is Eternal !
Revelation 14:6
Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Jesus passed on the gospel to His Disciples. Its the same Gospel but Christ had not suffered, died, risen yet. The disciples didn't understand the Passion until after His Resurrection, they were in denial.
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.” — John 13:7,19
After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. — John 2:22
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. — Matthew 16:21
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!” — Matthew 20:17-19
After His Resurrection
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. — Luke 24:25-27
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. — Luke 24:44-45
Are you teaching others the one true Gospel ?
Ones salvation depends upon the one true gospel !
The gospel is Christological or Christ centered. The message is about Jesus. So, the question becomes one of identity. Who is Jesus? Let’s see what Scripture declares about the identity of Jesus and the salvation message. We see in the opening of Matthews’s gospel that Jesus is identified as Immanuel which means literally that God is with us. In Luke’s gospel we see that Jesus was born the Savior of the world. In John’s gospel we read that the Word was with God and the Word became flesh. We beheld His Glory. We also read in the same gospel (meaning good news) that God sent His Son to be the Savior. Where did He send Him from? Jesus gives us the answer to the question in 17:5. He was together with the Father before creation and shared His Glory which is Gods alone. Jesus also tells His followers why do you ask to see the Father? To see Me is to see the Father. The Father and I are One. Basically, He is telling them He is God, you are looking at Him. This is why the Pharisees tried to stone Him on many occasions for claiming to be God (see John 8:56-60)
Also, we see the His Apostles identify Jesus as God. Thomas in John 20:28. Paul in Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13. Peter in 2 Peter 1:1,11. Hebrews 1-2, Jude and John in 1 John 1 and 5:20. Also the entire book of Revelation.
Acts it declares there is no other name given by which men must be saved! Not the name of the Father, not the name of the H.S. but the name of Jesus who represents the Godhead.
So, the gospel is Christ centered and one must know in whom they are placing their faith in to be saved.
Can I place my faith in Paul and be saved?
Can I place my faith in Peter and be saved?
Can I place my faith in Mary and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the pope and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the Holy Spirit and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the Father and be saved?
Can I place my faith in a god and be saved?
The answer to the above is a resounding no according to Scripture. There is no other name by which men must be saved period, end of story.
So, one must know and understand who the gospel is about and what He did for us. He came from heaven as God to earth as a man to die for the sins of the world. This is the gospel by which men must be saved. He rose from the dead by the power of the Godhead (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) together raised Jesus the man from the dead.
hope this helps,
Matthias
Well-known member
I’m curious. Do you also call the Muslims your spiritual brothers and sisters?
Johann
Well-known member
Lived with them for 15 years in a block of flats-I am talking about those who have embraced Messiah, so yes, I call them my spiritual brothers and sisters.
J.
Matthias
Well-known member
Thanks.
So not all Muslims. Only Muslims who have converted to the belief that God is the Trinity and Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. Is that right?
If so, that makes sense to me. If not, that makes no sense to me.
Maurice
Member
That sounds good. So in that case they would no longer be Muslims right? They would be Christians. So as Christians they don't need a Koran they need a Bible. They wouldn't need to go to a mosque they could go to the church. They have Jesus as their lord and savior. They can forget all about Muhammad.
Johann
Well-known member
This is uncalled for brother-but yes-the Trinity is a number one topic Muslims are desirous to discuss-to me it is not a salvific issue-but to you it is.
I have 3 Quran's on my desk and computer but they can't understand it without the Hadith.
J.
civic
Well-known member
I’m glad you are reaching out to them about the real Jesus- great job my friend
Johann
Well-known member
Correct-in most cases they are being excommunicated by the community and worse-some are "secret Christians" living within the communities.
J.
civic
Well-known member
That’s what I have been told so this is confirmation.
Johann
Well-known member
Thank you brother.
J.
Matthias
Well-known member
I’m trying to figure out who you call your spiritaul brothers and sisters and why.
You call me “brother” but, if believing in the Trinity and/or that Jesus is deity, then that makes no sense to me.
Belief in the Trinity and / or the deity of Messiah isn’t a salvation issue to you. Am I understanding you correctly?
I have 2 in my personal library. One was a personal gift from a Muslim and the other was sent to me by CAIR.
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Johann
Well-known member
Thank you brother.
J.
Then the time is now that we depart our own separate ways @Matthias
Belief in the Trinity is not a salvific issue with me-but the Deity of Messiah is an Imperative.
Good-I am more of an evangelical-a firm belief not to talk our walk but to walk our talk in real time.
Shalom
J.
Maurice
Member
What's the penalty for leaving Islam?
Matthias
Well-known member
That’s fine. Just remember that we‘re not spiritual brothers. I told you that a couple of times on at least one other forum. We don’t believe in, nor do we serve, the same deity.
There is no God besides the God and Father of the Messiah. That’s a line in the sand that I won’t cross or compromise with.
The Trinity is, as one trinitarian acquaintance of mine told me a couple of years ago, the “old“ battlefield. He doesn’t believe it is any longer, nor did his trinitarian pastor. That’s a departure from what orthodoxy teaches. Orthodoxy is dying, but it isn’t dead yet. There are still many trinitarians who remain holding the line on the “old” battlefield.
The doctrine of the deity of Christ, that same acquaintance told me, is the “new” battlefield. He and his pastor compromised on the doctrine of the Trinity but drew a line in the sand on the deity of Christ. Cross the Trinity line, no problem. Cross the deity of Christ line, and you’re not saved.
Johann
Well-known member
Apostasy from Islam is considered a hudud crime. Death penalty is the traditional form of punishment for both male and female apostates for leaving Islam. Jaʿfari or Imāmī school – Male apostates must be executed, while female apostates must be held in solitary confinement until they repents and return to Islam.
You can read this online-ever heard of the Underground Church?
Theophilus
Active member
A piece of paper doesn't prove anything. It's called being deceived the Bible warns about it. But now I see the conversation has switched to Muslims that have converted to Christianity. It would seem to me if you're going to convince a Muslim that Christianity is true you would have to convince them that Islam is false.
Theophilus
Active member
Only Satanist Atheist advertise they're being controlled by Lucifer. Jim Jones a confessing Christian, before he poisoned 900 people Including children forgot to mention he was being controlled by Satan.
Johann
Well-known member
And I won't compromise on my stance either @Matthias -if you don't view me as a spiritual brother there is nothing I can do about it.
We all are going to stand before Messiah to give an account of every idle, useless, inoperative words we have spoken, in word, thought and deed.
I work out my salvation with fear and trembling, I can't do it for you.
I believe it, since I have made my own research in the Hebrew Bible.
You have your own gifts and calling- so have I-and make full use of the talent YHVH gave me.
Time is short and has been shortened and we are not getting younger.
Shalom then.
Have a blessed day in Messiah.
Johann.
