Member Comments on Current Debates

[Studyman]

I am sure all of you Unitarians have noticed by now, but the Unitarian doctrine and all of its supporting doctrines are entirely circular in reasoning.

Stop running away @Runningman and your fellow cohorts- from Jesus words and testimony about the Father.
You are dodging it intentionally.

1- you make Jesus words a lie
1- you have no answer as a Unitarian since Jesus words below expose your false teaching.

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen him face to face

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

So the Million dollar question that exposes Unitarians is this :

Who did they see and hear in the OT who is called God/YHWH ?

We know from Jesus own teaching it was not the Father, so who was God that was seen and heard in the OT ?

I am no "Uni" Tarian, as I understand there is no relationship with God without the Christ, and there is no relationship with Christ, with His Father, the One True God. Jesus is the Scepter of God's Kingdom, God's "Arm" as it were. Nor do I believe in this world's popular and ancient religious philosophy of a "Triune god", or the man-made high days they created in worship of this god.. But the answer to this question is easy. The Father said, "Let there by Light", and I believe the "Christ", the Spiritual Rock that fed Israel, is the Light of this World "who became a flesh and blood mortal human" in the person of the Jesus "of the Bible".

Conclusion: End of discussion Unitarianism just collapsed and had its legs cut off. Looks like Jesus declared to all unitarians everywhere " I gotcha " with John 5:37 and John 6:46. Jesus exposed the pharisees who were also unitarians and denied his Deity just like the children of the pharisees do today- the modern day unitarians.

Triune god, uni-god, there isn't any difference between the two. You only believe so, because you have adopted the one and rejected the other. Others have chosen to other way around. The Biblical Truth is Jesus "NEVER" denied the Deity of His Father. He never exalted Himself above His Father. He always taught in His Father's Name, HE always Glorified God, "As God".

The promoters of this world's triune god demean, discredit and deny the Deity of His Father every day, but the Jesus "of the Bible", the Lord's Christ who walked with Noah, never did.

Jesus words to those same unitarian pharisees:

John 9
39Then Jesus declared, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind may see and those who see may become blind.”
40Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?”
41“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.”

hope this helps !!!

What a deception you promote here. What is the difference between the Pharisees and this world's religious system with their triune god?

Did this world's religions of Jesus Time not reject God's Commandments by their own religious traditions? Yes, they did. Does this world's religious system you are here to defend, justify and promote, reject God's commandments that you might walk in your own religious traditions? Yes, it does.

Do these men, "who profess to know God" reject God's Judgments and righteousness, and went about establishing their own? Yes they did. Does this world's religious system you are here to defend, justify and promote with your triune god, reject God's Judgments and righteousness, and chose instead to establish your own judgments and righteousness? Without any doubt, you know this is true.

Are you better than they, because you reject God's Righteousness and Judgments "In Christ's Name"? Those "Christians" in Matt. 7 thought so.

 

[civic]

I am no "Uni" Tarian, as I understand there is no relationship with God without the Christ, and there is no relationship with Christ, with His Father, the One True God. Jesus is the Scepter of God's Kingdom, God's "Arm" as it were. Nor do I believe in this world's popular and ancient religious philosophy of a "Triune god", or the man-made high days they created in worship of this god.. But the answer to this question is easy. The Father said, "Let there by Light", and I believe the "Christ", the Spiritual Rock that fed Israel, is the Light of this World "who became a flesh and blood mortal human" in the person of the Jesus "of the Bible".



Triune god, uni-god, there isn't any difference between the two. You only believe so, because you have adopted the one and rejected the other. Others have chosen to other way around. The Biblical Truth is Jesus "NEVER" denied the Deity of His Father. He never exalted Himself above His Father. He always taught in His Father's Name, HE always Glorified God, "As God".

The promoters of this world's triune god demean, discredit and deny the Deity of His Father every day, but the Jesus "of the Bible", the Lord's Christ who walked with Noah, never did.



What a deception you promote here. What is the difference between the Pharisees and this world's religious system with their triune god?

Did this world's religions of Jesus Time not reject God's Commandments by their own religious traditions? Yes, they did. Does this world's religious system you are here to defend, justify and promote, reject God's commandments that you might walk in your own religious traditions? Yes, it does.

Do these men, "who profess to know God" reject God's Judgments and righteousness, and went about establishing their own? Yes they did. Does this world's religious system you are here to defend, justify and promote with your triune god, reject God's Judgments and righteousness, and chose instead to establish your own judgments and righteousness? Without any doubt, you know this is true.

Are you better than they, because you reject God's Righteousness and Judgments "In Christ's Name"? Those "Christians" in Matt. 7 thought so.

unitarians believe like you that the Father is the only God. So by default that makes you a unitarian.

a binitarian believes bothe the Father and Son are God are the One God

a Trinitarian believes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the One God.

 

[Studyman]

unitarians believe like you that the Father is the only God. So by default that makes you a unitarian.

Well, that also makes Jesus a "Unitarian" then.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, "that they might know thee" "the only true God", "and" Jesus Christ, whom thou (Only True God) hast sent.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers "shall worship the Father" in spirit and in truth: for "the Father seeketh such" to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they "that worship him" must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Clearly Jesus was working to reconcile men to His Father, who HE SAID, I just believe Him, is the One True God.

Yes, there are "other voices" in the Garden God placed me in who preach otherwise. Men who "come in Christ's Name". But given my Lord has already warned me of these "many", I am careful not to "take heed" of them.

a binitarian believes bothe the Father and Son are God are the One God

Jesus certainly isn't a "binitarian" then, according to His Own Words.

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father "is greater than I".

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for "the prince of this world" cometh, and hath nothing in me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

There is a "prince of this world" Jesus said would come. A deceiver who deceives the whole world. Whose high days does this entire world partake of? The Feasts of the Lord that Jesus and Paul walked in? Or the man-made high days created by this world's religious system in worship of their triune god?

Of course you can't answer.

a Trinitarian believes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the One God.

Jesus was certainly not a trinitarian either. He is God's High Priest, my Lord and Savior, the Advocate between me and the One True God, chosen by God for this purpose, as it is written.

I always thought, as I told you, that because there is no salvation without both God and His Son, whose Spirits are most certainly Holy, that I wasn't a Unitarian, just a believer and doer of God's Word. But since you are obsessed with placing men in a judgment box, and since the Jesus "of the bible" was clearly a Unitarian, of the 3 judgment boxes you described above, maybe that judgment box more closely describes the Lord's Christ, and by extension me.

Maybe I learned something today.

Thanks Civic.

 

[mikesw]

Well, that also makes Jesus a "Unitarian" then.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, "that they might know thee" "the only true God", "and" Jesus Christ, whom thou (Only True God) hast sent.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers "shall worship the Father" in spirit and in truth: for "the Father seeketh such" to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they "that worship him" must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Clearly Jesus was working to reconcile men to His Father, who HE SAID, I just believe Him, is the One True God.

Yes, there are "other voices" in the Garden God placed me in who preach otherwise. Men who "come in Christ's Name". But given my Lord has already warned me of these "many", I am careful not to "take heed" of them.



Jesus certainly isn't a "binitarian" then, according to His Own Words.

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father "is greater than I".

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for "the prince of this world" cometh, and hath nothing in me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

There is a "prince of this world" Jesus said would come. A deceiver who deceives the whole world. Whose high days does this entire world partake of? The Feasts of the Lord that Jesus and Paul walked in? Or the man-made high days created by this world's religious system in worship of their triune god?

Of course you can't answer.


Jesus was certainly not a trinitarian either. He is God's High Priest, my Lord and Savior, the Advocate between me and the One True God, chosen by God for this purpose, as it is written.

I always thought, as I told you, that because there is no salvation without both God and His Son, whose Spirits are most certainly Holy, that I wasn't a Unitarian, just a believer and doer of God's Word. But since you are obsessed with placing men in a judgment box, and since the Jesus "of the bible" was clearly a Unitarian, of the 3 judgment boxes you described above, maybe that judgment box more closely describes the Lord's Christ, and by extension me.

Maybe I learned something today.

Thanks Civic.

The clarification of yourself as a unitarian helps show why you seem to promote the Mosaic law instead of the law of Christ, which is simpler to live by. The unitarians around here then just treat Jesus as an example how to live a lawbligatory life rather than doing the law to fulfill the requirement of it for everyone so we do not have to live by the letter of the law.

Hopefully I have stated responses that apply to you and not mixed with someone else's ideas.

 

[Keiw1]

Research the Complete Jewish bible... From Genesus to Revelation ,

Version Information Presenting the Word of God as a unified Jewish book, the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) is a translation for Jews and non-Jews alike. It connects readers with the Jewishness of the Messiah.

Or do you deny His Jewishness?

One link: https://www.studylight.org/bible/eng/cjb.html

Another in PDF https://jsd-cog.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Complete-Jewish-Bible.pdf

This is an individual translation by David H. Stern, and it is somewhat idiosyncratic in style. Stern aims to use Jewish terminology throughout both testaments in his translation, and thus you will find Hebrew terminology all through the text. In the Old Testament or Hebrew scriptures, this is not so bad. In the New, there can be some disagreement as to the precise application.

Users should not be deceived by the term "Jewish" in the title; this Bible is translated from a Christian and specifically Messianic Jewish perspective.

And I am not saying YOU should read this, but you should know that not all are translated from Latin and not all translations come from the Catholics.

You say "

Which of course is not true from the Messianic Jew. They do.

In fact, before he left here you missed a wonderful opportunity to connect with a messianic Jew right in this forum... Your loss that you missed out.

I showed you, when the protestants translated Catholicism translating remained( NT) very few minor fragments older remained.

 

[Keiw1]

If the only copies left when they were translated were the Latin Vulgate... what did the man use when NWTwas primarily translated by Frederick W. Franz, who was the main translator, who knew no Hebrew and only had 2 years of College Greek?

Are you aware that Bible Hub says this https://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

"The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses' parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah."

HOW?

YOU @Keiw1 just said there were none for them to use.

Who forged them? Better yet... who forged the dead sea scrolls and then arranged for them to found to shake up the world?
Your people... from your chosen reading source... used "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek which YOU say were non existent because it was all Latin from the Latin Vulgate....................... your people forged the bible.......... are you not proud.
You also do not read any other, which is very RCC of you because they , even as late as a couple of decades ago were discouraged from ever reading any other then the "Catholic" bible.

You are reading and studying a book that is not accurate and obviously they cherry picked what would be in it because they all read other bibles for 5 years before putting it together....
So dont read anything else.... IDC..... but stop claiming that is the only one because it is the only one with enough errors to make a book from

Gods holy spirit guided the NWT. Years of hard study by many men as well to find truth.

 

[Studyman]

The clarification of yourself as a unitarian helps show why you seem to promote the Mosaic law instead of the law of Christ,

First, according to Scriptures, it was God's Laws that HE gave to Moses through the Spiritual Rock that led them through the wilderness. Paul said that "Rock" was Christ. Secondly, you are promoting a division between the Christ "of the Bible" and His Father who Sent Him, which is contrary to Scriptures.

He tries to tell men, but they don't believe Him. The mainstream preachers of His Time and before (them of old time) promoted God's Law "Thou shall not Kill". But they "Omitted" the weightier matters of God's Law as defined below.

Lev. 19: 16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

He exposes the "Them of old time" in Matt. 5 concerning many of God's Laws that the Christ gave to Moses at the behest of HIS Father, that the "Them of old time" omitted from their religion.

In the world God placed me in, there are deceivers who would have you believe that the "Them of Old time" was God and Moses. But if you study for yourself you will find that this popular philosophy is false. The Law and Prophets taught what Jesus taught, because HE is the One who taught them "in the way that they should go".

Prov. 6: 24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Do you not believe this was Inspired by the Spirit of Christ on the Author of this writing?

which is simpler to live by.

Jesus lived by Every Word of God, and walking in God's Law perfectly. And HE said His Burden is Light. I don't buy into the whole mainstream religious philosophy that, "God created Laws impossible to obey, then lied to people by telling them they could obey, then killed them by the thousands when they didn't". I know how popular this teaching is in this world's religious system, but I don't believe the Bible, and certainly Jesus, ever promoted such a philosophy. If you can find where they did, please show me.

The unitarians around here then just treat Jesus as an example how to live a lawbligatory life rather than doing the law to fulfill the requirement of it for everyone so we do not have to live by the letter of the law.

To live by the "Letter of the Law", means you are dead in your trespasses and sins. You are dead because God told you not to do something, and you told God in your heart, "Go pound sand", like Eve did. But Because God Loves you and wants you to turn to Him, HE provided a sacrifice for you, His Own Son. He didn't do this so you can keep rejecting God's Judgments and instructions, telling God again and again to "Go pound sand". He did this to give you a chance to humble yourself to God, and show Him some common respect and honor, worthy of such a Great God who has given you an existence, and a chance at eternal life even after you judged Him as unworthy of your respect and honor.

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, in fact, it seems like a man's reasonable service, and a Mercy from God to give me another chance to respect Him, like His Son Jesus did..

Paul tries to tell men this, but they don't believe him.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech (BEG) you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that "ye present" your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable "unto God", which is your reasonable service.

Is it too much for the servant or the son to abide by the rules of his master or his father?

2 And be not conformed to this world (This would include the "many" religions who "come in Christ's Name, Yes) but be ye transformed "by the renewing of your mind", (Maybe become aware that God is GOD, and you are simply a man in need of instruction) that "ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Hopefully I have stated responses that apply to you and not mixed with someone else's ideas.

You could actually address what I said, and show me the Scriptures which show my error, or even answer my question.

 

[mikesw]

First, according to Scriptures, it was God's Laws that HE gave to Moses through the Spiritual Rock that led them through the wilderness. Paul said that "Rock" was Christ. Secondly, you are promoting a division between the Christ "of the Bible" and His Father who Sent Him, which is contrary to Scriptures.

He tries to tell men, but they don't believe Him. The mainstream preachers of His Time and before (them of old time) promoted God's Law "Thou shall not Kill". But they "Omitted" the weightier matters of God's Law as defined below.

Actually, they were failing big time in the kill department. Stephen was killed and Paul was contributing to the persecution of saints. Also, the killed the prophets over the many years. The law did not stop them from doing all that. But if you are wanting to become a Christian so you can kill people, your heart is wrong

Lev. 19: 16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

THe summary principle indeed is what Jesus promotes and which are shared by Paul and others. That is not the problem here. You are saying that laws for Jews are supposed to be done by gentiles. Paul speaks against that in Rom 3:19 "Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God."

He exposes the "Them of old time" in Matt. 5 concerning many of God's Laws that the Christ gave to Moses at the behest of HIS Father, that the "Them of old time" omitted from their religion.

In the world God placed me in, there are deceivers who would have you believe that the "Them of Old time" was God and Moses. But if you study for yourself you will find that this popular philosophy is false. The Law and Prophets taught what Jesus taught, because HE is the One who taught them "in the way that they should go".

Prov. 6: 24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Do you not believe this was Inspired by the Spirit of Christ on the Author of this writing?



Jesus lived by Every Word of God, and walking in God's Law perfectly. And HE said His Burden is Light. I don't buy into the whole mainstream religious philosophy that, "God created Laws impossible to obey, then lied to people by telling them they could obey, then killed them by the thousands when they didn't". I know how popular this teaching is in this world's religious system, but I don't believe the Bible, and certainly Jesus, ever promoted such a philosophy. If you can find where they did, please show me.

To live by the "Letter of the Law", means you are dead in your trespasses and sins.

That means you are not living by the spirit of the law and indeed that is a dead lifestyle.

You are dead because God told you not to do something, and you told God in your heart, "Go pound sand", like Eve did. But Because God Loves you and wants you to turn to Him, HE provided a sacrifice for you, His Own Son. He didn't do this so you can keep rejecting God's Judgments and instructions, telling God again and again to "Go pound sand".

So you are saying Jesus died for nothing because the law is still active and, as in Gal 2:17 that combination would make Jesus a minister of sin when following your doctrinal error.

He did this to give you a chance to humble yourself to God, and show Him some common respect and honor, worthy of such a Great God who has given you an existence, and a chance at eternal life even after you judged Him as unworthy of your respect and honor.

You have found an excellent basis to claim self-pride and ability by your impressive powers you have without needing Christ. You do not need Christ because you have found a righteousness of your own (Rom 9:30-33).

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, in fact, it seems like a man's reasonable service, and a Mercy from God to give me another chance to respect Him, like His Son Jesus did..

Paul tries to tell men this, but they don't believe him.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech (BEG) you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that "ye present" your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable "unto God", which is your reasonable service.

K. I will answer this verse. It has nothing to do with throwing your body on a burning altar. It was Paul telling the gentiles to start serving one another properly in prophecy, teaching, serving... There are not Mosaic laws telling you to prophesy or teach other believers.

Is it too much for the servant or the son to abide by the rules of his master or his father?

2 And be not conformed to this world (This would include the "many" religions who "come in Christ's Name, Yes) but be ye transformed "by the renewing of your mind", (Maybe become aware that God is GOD, and you are simply a man in need of instruction) that "ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The Roman gentiles had gone wayward in their Christian walk and were living like those in the world mindset. He had to assemble their thinking back into humility and care for one another --possibly as they had done in their earlier synagogue experience.

You could actually address what I said, and show me the Scriptures which show my error, or even answer my question.

I share enough about the end of the Mosaic law era in Galatians 3 and about the divinity of Christ which also is found in Gal 3:16-20. I also was responding to a certain perception conveyed the recent posts and a history of posts. I was not interested in whatever question you were asking. That was not why I chimed in.

Overall then, the passages I have shared and the context provided keep me from accepting your works-oriented lifestyle.

 

[Studyman]

I share enough about the end of the Mosaic law era in Galatians 3 and about the divinity of Christ which also is found in Gal 3:16-20.

Gal. 3 speaks to the end of the Levitical Priesthood, a priesthood Abraham wasn't under but David was. A Priesthood that wasn't given to Israel in the day they left Egypt.

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

The Law of this Priesthood was "ADDED" after the Golden calf. Prior to that, there was no instruction for a man who sinned to take a goat to a Levite Priest and kill it, in order for the priest to provide for the forgiveness of sin. You can read this for yourself, if you are seeking the Kingdom of God, and HIS Righteousness.

This was the "Ministration of Death" that was prophesied to change "after those days".

The deceiver would have you believe, just as the same deceiver convinced you that the "Them of Old Time" in Matthew 5 is speaking about God and Moses, that God's Laws given to Israel was the "Ministration of death". This is a lie promoted by this world's religious system Jesus warned about.

It was the Law of this Priesthood, "ADDED because of Transgressions", (Golden Calf) that was the tutor that was to lead men to their Redeemer, the High Priest of God. And even though the Priests corrupted this Priesthood Covenant, as Malachi 2 prophesies, it did lead Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men to their Savior, even before HE was born. You can read about this too, if you become interested.

I also was responding to a certain perception conveyed the recent posts and a history of posts. I was not interested in whatever question you were asking. That was not why I chimed in.

Yes, I know you are here to defend, justify and promote a specific religious philosophy. Answering questions about the popular religious philosophies of this world, often gets in the way of men's adopted doctrines, such as the ones you are promoting here about Jesus and His Father promoting different Laws, and how Jesus came to Abolish the very Laws He Gave to Moses, as his Spiritual Rock.

Nevertheless, it is good to test the spirits of these popular religious philosophies, given Jesus told us to "Take heed", specifically of those "many" who "come in His Name. and "call Him Lord, Lord". Who knows that in the quite corner of your home, when no one is around, you might actually consider what is actually written concerning these doctrines you have adopted.

It is my hope that you will Mike.

 

[mikesw]

Gal. 3 speaks to the end of the Levitical Priesthood, a priesthood Abraham wasn't under but David was. A Priesthood that wasn't given to Israel in the day they left Egypt.

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

The Law of this Priesthood was "ADDED" after the Golden calf. Prior to that, there was no instruction for a man who sinned to take a goat to a Levite Priest and kill it, in order for the priest to provide for the forgiveness of sin. You can read this for yourself, if you are seeking the Kingdom of God, and HIS Righteousness.

This was the "Ministration of Death" that was prophesied to change "after those days".

The deceiver would have you believe, just as the same deceiver convinced you that the "Them of Old Time" in Matthew 5 is speaking about God and Moses, that God's Laws given to Israel was the "Ministration of death". This is a lie promoted by this world's religious system Jesus warned about.

It was the Law of this Priesthood, "ADDED because of Transgressions", (Golden Calf) that was the tutor that was to lead men to their Redeemer, the High Priest of God. And even though the Priests corrupted this Priesthood Covenant, as Malachi 2 prophesies, it did lead Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men to their Savior, even before HE was born. You can read about this too, if you become interested.



Yes, I know you are here to defend, justify and promote a specific religious philosophy. Answering questions about the popular religious philosophies of this world, often gets in the way of men's adopted doctrines, such as the ones you are promoting here about Jesus and His Father promoting different Laws, and how Jesus came to Abolish the very Laws He Gave to Moses, as his Spiritual Rock.

Nevertheless, it is good to test the spirits of these popular religious philosophies, given Jesus told us to "Take heed", specifically of those "many" who "come in His Name. and "call Him Lord, Lord". Who knows that in the quite corner of your home, when no one is around, you might actually consider what is actually written concerning these doctrines you have adopted.

It is my hope that you will Mike.

You simply are missing the point of Galatians 3 in a fatally flawed way. (Paul shows the end of the Mosaic era in at least 4 ways so it is hard to miss.) I cannot likely change your mind unless you are willing to consider that you may have erred in your doctrine just as you have failed to recognize the Triune God. This is not a surprising combination of errors. It is kind of a unitarian error to combine those errors together. This tends toward saying we can do all that Christ did before he died on the cross.

 

[Studyman]

You simply are missing the point of Galatians 3 in a fatally flawed way. (Paul shows the end of the Mosaic era in at least 4 ways so it is hard to miss.)

No he doesn't. If you study all of his teaching, he promotes no such thing. Only by taking a few verses, separating them from the rest of the Bible, and twisting them, can you turn Paul into an adversary of God who teaches against the Law and Prophets or the God that Inspired them, that he himself said HE believed in. I have posted some of his teaching, but I noticed that you can't even acknowledge them, much less engage in an honest discussion about them.

Why would a person even do such a thing?

I cannot likely change your mind unless you are willing to consider that you may have erred in your doctrine just as you have failed to recognize the Triune God. This is not a surprising combination of errors. It is kind of a unitarian error to combine those errors together. This tends toward saying we can do all that Christ did before he died on the cross.

This is a constant judgment against God and His Son that you triune god worshipping people live by. God says "Obey me, and it will be well with you". The trinitarian preaches to the entire world, "It's impossible to obey God and to even strive to obey is "Legalism"". Jesus says, "Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". The Trinitarian yells, It's impossible to obey Jesus, and anyone who strives to obey Him is trying to "Earn Salvation". Paul says he "Presses towards the perfection that was in Christ Jesus". That men should "yield themselves" to obey the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. The Trinitarian screams, Jesus abolished God's Laws HE Lived by, because they were the plague and death on all mankind. You can now live as you please, and no evil will come upon you, "You shall surely not die".


You are not the first "voice" in the garden that God placed me in, that works to turn men away from the Christ, "of the bible" and work to convince men to worship a triune god who "says unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you".

I'm going to honor the God of the Scriptures, with the respect and honor HE deserves. And I do this, because the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs me to. I invite you to do the same.

 

[mikesw]

No he doesn't. If you study all of his teaching, he promotes no such thing. Only by taking a few verses, separating them from the rest of the Bible, and twisting them, can you turn Paul into an adversary of God who teaches against the Law and Prophets or the God that Inspired them, that he himself said HE believed in. I have posted some of his teaching, but I noticed that you can't even acknowledge them, much less engage in an honest discussion about them.

Why would a person even do such a thing?

You must be blind to have missed what I wrote in response to your ideas. Do you need me to post the points again or maybe I was not quoting it fully. I show Paul's argument against dependence on the Mosaic law at this link:
#gal-3-19-20-solved-by-the-shema-in-light-of-christs-divinity

Paul would do such a thing as reflecting Jesus's and Jeremiah 31:33 end of the law so you could be free. If you goal is to be a slave of the law and suffer death, that is your option.

Another clue: Paul wrote the Galatians letter against Jews who were trying to convince the gentiles to get circumcised and submit themselves under the Jewish laws. Paul's first three chapters speak against that action, yet you restore the law in defiance of Christ's work on the cross. Wake up!

This is a constant judgment against God and His Son that you triune god worshipping people live by. God says "Obey me, and it will be well with you". The trinitarian preaches to the entire world, "It's impossible to obey God and to even strive to obey is "Legalism"".

I'm not sure where you get your ideas. You might study the NT instead.

Jesus says, "Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". The Trinitarian yells, It's impossible to obey Jesus, and anyone who strives to obey Him is trying to "Earn Salvation".

You can seek Christ without using criminal law as your inspiration. the Mosaic law was the national governance code for the Israel people. Again I point to Rom 3:19 -- very simple -- if you are not the people that law was written for, you are not made righteous by that law.

Paul says he "Presses towards the perfection that was in Christ Jesus". That men should "yield themselves" to obey the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. The Trinitarian screams, Jesus abolished God's Laws HE Lived by, because they were the plague and death on all mankind.

You sort of help recall where Paul says that those taking on the MOsaic law are under a curse. I hope you like that curse hanging over you.

You can now live as you please, and no evil will come upon you, "You shall surely not die".

Really. What have I done wrong that makes Christ's blood ineffective?

You are not the first "voice" in the garden that God placed me in, that works to turn men away from the Christ, "of the bible" and work to convince men to worship a triune god who "says unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you".

Your error about the nature of Christ leads you to the errors of preserving the Mosaic law, as if Christ never came.

I'm going to honor the God of the Scriptures, with the respect and honor HE deserves. And I do this, because the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs me to. .

I hope you do come to honor the God of Scriptures. That indeed is my hope for all people.

 

[Studyman]

You must be blind to have missed what I wrote in response to your ideas. Do you need me to post the points again or maybe I was not quoting it fully. I show Paul's argument against dependence on the Mosaic law at this link:

Your argument is founded on popular, but insidious lies about God and the Pharisees, promoted by this world's religious system. Let me detail them for you, in case you might become interested in Biblical Truth.

#1. You preach that Jesus and His Father are not ONE where the Law and Prophets are concerned. Relying on the promoters of a triune god, who twisted Matt. 5, by convincing you the "Them of old time" was God and Moses, and not the corrupt priests and Scribes who omitted the weightier matters of the Law shown us over and over in the Prophets. (Mal. 2 is one place, should you be interested in Biblical Truth, Jer. 23 is another) This is an easy lie to expose, and I exposed it for you in my post, but you completely ignored it. Jesus explains why you ignored it in John 3:20, in case you are interested in knowing why you didn't want to acknowledge the truth about the "them of old time" Jesus spoke to in Matt. 5.

#2. You preach the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by keeping God's Laws "to the letter" and that they were promoting God's Laws to the Gentiles, and Paul and the Apostles stopped the Gentiles from obeying God's Laws that you preach is a "Yoke of Bondage" God placed on the necks of those men who trusted Him. This popular but insidious lie is also easy to expose, simply by believing the Word's of the Lord's Christ. Can you show me ONE place where Jesus said the Pharisees were obeying God's Law HE gave to Moses? Just ONE Time is all I'm asking.

Not to mention Moses and the Prophets who told you over and over and over and over and over why those Jews who fell in the Wilderness, fell. The teaching that they fell because they were striving to Obey God is an evil and wicked falsehood. And yet, it is the very foundation for your philosophy that Jesus came to abolish God's Laws.

But I fear you will not be persuaded by anything actually written in Scriptures. Not because "I think so", but because the Jesus "of the Bible" said so.

Luke 16: 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them "from the dead", "they will repent".

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

If you were to turn away from this world's popular religious system and place your belief in the instructions and Words of the Christ "of the Bible" you would know these things. It's not to late to turn to Him, I invite you to do so while you are still can. God has provided you with all you need. Belief is all you are lacking.

Paul would do such a thing as reflecting Jesus's and Jeremiah 31:33 end of the law so you could be free.

Jer. 31: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Where is the prophesy of the "END" of God's Law that you preach Jeremiah Prophesied? I posted his words right here that you referenced, can you please detail for me where Jeremiah is prophesying the END of God's Law?

Of course you can't, because such a teaching is a deception, a falsehood, a lie. If men actually believed in the Christ "of the bible" they would know HE didn't come to destroy God's Laws or Moses and the Prophets. If you believed in the Christ of the Bible, you would know it was Him who gave the Laws to Moses in the first place. And you strive to "Live By" them as HE commanded, like Paul did.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I showed you, when the protestants translated Catholicism translating remained( NT) very few minor fragments older remained.

Then how could your people actually come up with a completed translation in either the NT OR the OT.

In otherwards you are admitting that it mattered not that they had authentic docs and scrolls to work form because
had no knowledge of Hebrew... therefore they surly relied on previous translations those 5 years they were reading them and
and as to the Koine Greek, Frederick W. Franz had 2 years of college Greek, but we do not know if that was Koine Greek (biblical) or just Greek.

So there is a problem because they had very little material to expand into scriptures.

Except. they did have what was in the dead sea scrolls. Though not complete, I am sure someone who was Greek would hace been able to do that.

Your NT was first published in 1950, and then the complete in 1961... according to Wiki

But your watchtower says this" The Old Testament was originally published in parts from 1953 to 1960. The whole was revised for the one-volume edition in 1961, and subsequently revised in 1970 and 1984.

Why do they need to keep revising it?

 

[Keiw1]

Then how could your people actually come up with a completed translation in either the NT OR the OT.

In otherwards you are admitting that it mattered not that they had authentic docs and scrolls to work form because
had no knowledge of Hebrew... therefore they surly relied on previous translations those 5 years they were reading them and
and as to the Koine Greek, Frederick W. Franz had 2 years of college Greek, but we do not know if that was Koine Greek (biblical) or just Greek.

So there is a problem because they had very little material to expand into scriptures.

Except. they did have what was in the dead sea scrolls. Though not complete, I am sure someone who was Greek would hace been able to do that.

Your NT was first published in 1950, and then the complete in 1961... according to Wiki

But your watchtower says this" The Old Testament was originally published in parts from 1953 to 1960. The whole was revised for the one-volume edition in 1961, and subsequently revised in 1970 and 1984.

Why do they need to keep revising it?

God used holy spirit through men, the same way he wrote it to begin with.
Revision to make it easier to understand.

 

[FreeInChrist]

God used holy spirit through men, the same way he wrote it to begin with.
Revision to make it easier to understand.

Simply Amazing

But you should be able to understand then that many of the replies I have made and questions asked to you and many others have not been from me, for I know it was the Holy Spirit because my replies did not even sound like me, and sometimes I sis bot even recognize it was me responding.

So I wont say you are wrong, I just don't know why they had to study all those translations for 5 years .....

 

[mikesw]

View attachment 2269 Simply Amazing

sometimes I sis bot even recognize it was me responding.

you have to be careful of those sis bots. A little shift of the hand can cause those.

 

[FreeInChrist]

you have to be careful of those sis bots. A little shift of the hand can cause those.

AND get one into a peck of trouble too.

And did you know I was not necessarily wrong, though I know it was not I..... but there is such a thing and it could be applicable to here...

AI~ A SIS bot is a software tool designed to automate tasks and workflows within a Student Information System (SIS), helping to improve efficiency and collaboration without the need for coding. It can streamline processes like data management and communication in educational institutions. (Are we all not students here, learning?)

And that's my story and I am sticking to it, because that is exactly what I was doing.......

 

[civic]

You must be blind to have missed what I wrote in response to your ideas. Do you need me to post the points again or maybe I was not quoting it fully. I show Paul's argument against dependence on the Mosaic law at this link:
#gal-3-19-20-solved-by-the-shema-in-light-of-christs-divinity

Paul would do such a thing as reflecting Jesus's and Jeremiah 31:33 end of the law so you could be free. If you goal is to be a slave of the law and suffer death, that is your option.

Another clue: Paul wrote the Galatians letter against Jews who were trying to convince the gentiles to get circumcised and submit themselves under the Jewish laws. Paul's first three chapters speak against that action, yet you restore the law in defiance of Christ's work on the cross. Wake up!

I'm not sure where you get your ideas. You might study the NT instead.


You can seek Christ without using criminal law as your inspiration. the Mosaic law was the national governance code for the Israel people. Again I point to Rom 3:19 -- very simple -- if you are not the people that law was written for, you are not made righteous by that law.

You sort of help recall where Paul says that those taking on the MOsaic law are under a curse. I hope you like that curse hanging over you.


Really. What have I done wrong that makes Christ's blood ineffective?

Your error about the nature of Christ leads you to the errors of preserving the Mosaic law, as if Christ never came.

I hope you do come to honor the God of Scriptures. That indeed is my hope for all people.

remember the unitarian pharisees were also blind and Jesus true identity was also hidden from them. like the unitarian pharisees of Jesus day the modern ones also get upset over Jesus Deity and His claims. Not much has changed with the unitarian mindset in denying Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

The promoters of this world's triune god demean, discredit and deny the Deity of His Father every day, but the Jesus "of the Bible", the Lord's Christ who walked with Noah, never did.

That's not the issue, or what this thread is discussing, the issue is:

Please post any comments on any ongoing debates here. Our "Current Debate... is The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?"

By the way you worded you sentence above, proves that you do not believe in Jesus' Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1