Looking for Jeremiah

[TedT]

Where would that pre-existence sinning occur? In heaven? In a previous life? Sounds like reincarnation.

It only sounds like reincarnation because you don't understand it yet. Yes, the first sins were heavenly and then all sinners were sent to different parts of Sheol which was placed in the centre of the earth after the creation of the physical universe which ALL the sons of GOD saw and so sang HIS praise, Job 38:7, for this proof of HIS divinity and eternal power. This is why it is written that the wicked return to Sheol upon their death, Ps 9:17, not it's opposite 'are turned into...'

While there is no verse against reincarnation, there is also no reason for it unless you assume that GOD cannot redeem HIS elect and sanctify them in one lifetime.

And, just to mention, the word pre-exstance is a fairy humorous nonsense word as nothing can exist before it exists. That is why I like to use pre-conception existence or pre-earthly life existence.

 

[JLG]

Ahhhh, so modern science gives the lie to scripture??

- No, just nature doesn't like emptiness!
- When there is space, plants fight for it!
- When there is space, human beings fight for it!
- Simple basic logic!

 

[TedT]

- No, just nature doesn't like emptiness!
- When there is space, plants fight for it!
- When there is space, human beings fight for it!
- Simple basic logic!

Provers 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;

 

[JLG]

It only sounds like reincarnation because you don't understand it yet. Yes, the first sins were heavenly and then all sinners were sent to different parts of Sheol which was placed in the centre of the earth after the creation of the physical universe which ALL the sons of GOD saw and so sang HIS praise, Job 38:7, for this proof of HIS divinity and eternal power. This is why it is written that the wicked return to Sheol upon their death, Ps 9:17, not it's opposite 'are turned into...'

While there is no verse against reincarnation, there is also no reason for it unless you assume that GOD cannot redeem HIS elect and sanctify them in one lifetime.

And, just to mention, the word pre-exstance is a fairy humorous nonsense word as nothing can exist before it exists. That is why I like to use pre-conception existence or pre-earthly life existence.

- The devil told Eve they would not die and become like gods!
- But they died!
- Religion usually says you don't die!
- Quite similar technique to trick human beings!
- I only believe in Yah.weh's kingdom!

 

[JLG]

Provers 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;

- You should read thev book of Job speaking about death!
- He had an exceptional relationship to Yah.weh!

 

[TedT]

- The devil told Eve they would not die and become like gods!
- But they died!
- Religion usually says you don't die!
- Quite similar technique to trick human beings!
- I only believe in Yah.weh's kingdom!

If the devil knew he was condemned to hell before the garden when he saw the creation of the physical universe, then he would also know Eve was elect and though a sinner, would be saved and except for the earthly death of a sinners, she would not die in hell. So would she as one of the elect. He was challenging her to go her own way to prove her faith in GOD's promise of election over HIS command not to eat.

Remember the commands of the law are given not to the righteous but to sinners 1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, etc, etc.

 

[JLG]

If the devil knew he was condemned to hell before the garden when he saw the creation of the physical universe, then he would also know Eve was elect and though a sinner, would be saved and except for the earthly death of a sinners, she would not die in hell. So would she as one of the elect. He was challenging her to go her own way to prove her faith in GOD's promise of election over HIS command not to eat.

Remember the commands of the law are given not to the righteous but to sinners 1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, etc, etc.

- He thought he could do what he did with Eve with all mankind!
- But he found a rock in Job!
- And Job found he was a liar!
- Even if they aren't many faithful servants of Yah.weh, they will keep being faithful!
- The devil knew that when he started opposing Yah.weh he would be destroyed!
- And the demons know it too well!
- That's what we call free will!
- During the millenium, people will see what Yah.weh's kingdom can achieve!
- But when the devil is freed for the last time, many will follow him as usual!
- Simple basic logic!
- Human beings are too predictable!

 

[TedT]

- He thought he could do what he did with Eve with all mankind!
- But he found a rock in Job!

MY suggestion from our pre-conception existence pov about one deeper meaning of Job's story is that before Job was sent to earth as one of HIS sinful elect people of HIS kingdom, YHWH made a deal with him to have him expose Satan for the eternally evil, ultimate creep that he is! IOW, due to Job Satan was exposed to the whole world as a guy who would maliciously abuse the most holy old man on earth by monstering him and his family, just because YHWH said something nice about him!!! Who could follow a guy like that except a demon??

This is such a boost to YHWH's command that we, HIS sinful elect, must come out from among the reprobate idolaters and be holy so they can be condemned without harm to us, Matt 13:27-30., ie, Satan is NOT WORTH OUR PITY!

I suggest this interpretation because I can't see GOD doing such a horrible thing to one of HIS family unless Job had agreed to it by his free will. Without Job's prior agreement to his earthly catastrophes, going thru what he did because GOD wanted to prove something to Satan is a ghastly injustice even if GOD paid Job off with a new family!!! Could they really repay for those he loved and lost if he had no understanding of the importance of the meaning of what it was all about???

 

[synergy]

It only sounds like reincarnation because you don't understand it yet. Yes, the first sins were heavenly and then all sinners were sent to different parts of Sheol which was placed in the centre of the earth after the creation of the physical universe which ALL the sons of GOD saw and so sang HIS praise, Job 38:7, for this proof of HIS divinity and eternal power. This is why it is written that the wicked return to Sheol upon their death, Ps 9:17, not it's opposite 'are turned into...'

While there is no verse against reincarnation, there is also no reason for it unless you assume that GOD cannot redeem HIS elect and sanctify them in one lifetime.

And, just to mention, the word pre-exstance is a fairy humorous nonsense word as nothing can exist before it exists. That is why I like to use pre-conception existence or pre-earthly life existence.

I only looked at the verses you mentioned.

Job 38:7 adds nothing to your theories.

Ps 9:17 does not have the "return" word that you mentioned. Here is the verse according to the NKJV:

The wicked shall be turned into hell,
And all the nations that forget God.

 

[TedT]

The devil knew that when he started opposing Yah.weh he would be destroyed!
- And the demons know it too well!

Do you really believe that someone who knew the PROOF of YHWH's glory and eternal power could ever think that he would take his place or be equal to him??? Can anyone who can't create a universe think that he can?? Absurd!!

Even more absurd is the idea that someone who knows he is not a God and that if HE rebels against YHWH as HIS GOD and savior he will end in eternal hell suffering, goes ahead and makes the decision to rebuke YHWH as a liar and a false god!!! Choosing to go to a proven eternal hell rather than a proven heaven is absurd on the order of an absolute insanity!!!

Do we condemn the deranged insane to eternal suffering or do we cure them???

Rather, Satan and his angels rebelled against YHWH's CLAIMS to be our GOD and saviour from all sin, without proof, putting their hope without proof in the idea that HE was the same as everyone else and therefore a liar and therefore they rebuked HIM as a false god by faith, ie, hope, not proof. They heard these claims when HE proclaimed HIS deity and HIS gospel of salvation to every person under heaven, ie, every person who was ever created in HIS image, as mentioned in Colossians 1:23.

No one ends in hell because they are insane but only because they made a free will but sinful decision to NOT put their faith in YHWH as their GOD and saviour and so were condemned on the spot as having never believed In Christ's Name, ie, divine essence, as per John 3:18.

The proof that opened their eyes to their eternal fate in hell was seeing the creation of the physical universe but accepting the proof of GOD was not the criteria for being saved from sin but faith, an unproven hope, was the only criteria.

 

[TedT]

Job 38:7 adds nothing to your theories.

If you accept the world all as everyone of HIS sons ever created it certainly does....and there is nothing in the verse to suggest we can't take it this way.

Ps 9:17 does not have the "return" word that you mentioned. Here is the verse according to the NKJV:

The wicked shall be turned into hell,
And all the nations that forget God.

Oh well...look deeper without preconceptions, eh?

RETURN

H7725. shub ►

Strong's Concordance shub: to turn back, return​

If the translation of shub does not include the idea of RETURNING nor GOING BACK to somewhere it is a mistranslation. And I contend no one can return to or go back to or be turned back to somewhere unless they have come from there.

This verse is most emphatically implying that the wicked come here from Sheol! Matt 13:36-39.

English Standard Version
The wicked shall return to Sheol, all the nations that forget God.

Berean Standard Bible
The wicked will return to Sheol—all the nations who forget God.

New American Standard Bible
The wicked will return to Sheol, All the nations who forget God.

NASB 1995
The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

NASB 1977
The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

Legacy Standard Bible
The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

Christian Standard Bible
The wicked will return to Sheol — all the nations that forget God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The wicked will return to Sheol— all the nations that forget God.

English Revised Version
The wicked shall return to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.

International Standard Version
The wicked will turn back to where the dead are — all the nations that have forgotten God.

JPS Tanakh 1917
The wicked shall return to the nether-world, Even all the nations that forget God.

Literal Standard Version
The wicked turn back to Sheol, | All nations forgetting God.

Majority Standard Bible
The wicked will return to Sheol—all the nations who forget God.

New Heart English Bible
The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.

World English Bible
The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.

Young's Literal Translation
The wicked do turn back to Sheol, All nations forgetting God.

 

[synergy]

Do you really believe that someone who knew the PROOF of YHWH's glory and eternal power could ever think that he would take his place or be equal to him??? Can anyone who can't create a universe think that he can?? Absurd!!

Even more absurd is the idea that someone who knows he is not a God and that if HE rebels against YHWH as HIS GOD and savior he will end in eternal hell suffering, goes ahead and makes the decision to rebuke YHWH as a liar and a false god!!! Choosing to go to a proven eternal hell rather than a proven heaven is absurd on the order of an absolute insanity!!!

Do we condemn the deranged insane to eternal suffering or do we cure them???

Rather, Satan and his angels rebelled against YHWH's CLAIMS to be our GOD and saviour from all sin, without proof, putting their hope without proof in the idea that HE was the same as everyone else and therefore a liar and therefore they rebuked HIM as a false god by faith, ie, hope, not proof. They heard these claims when HE proclaimed HIS deity and HIS gospel of salvation to every person under heaven, ie, every person who was ever created in HIS image, as mentioned in Colossians 1:23.

No one ends in hell because they are insane but only because they made a free will but sinful decision to NOT put their faith in YHWH as their GOD and saviour and so were condemned on the spot as having never believed In Christ's Name, ie, divine essence, as per John 3:18.

The proof that opened their eyes to their eternal fate in hell was seeing the creation of the physical universe but accepting the proof of GOD was not the criteria for being saved from sin but faith, an unproven hope, was the only criteria.

It's just like what Hamas did last week. They knew that Israel had the power to pound the entire Gaza region back into the stone age and yet Hamas still went ahead with their demonic mission. The same way you ask why did the Devil do what he did you can also ask why the Hamas demons do what they did.

 

[TedT]

It's just like what Hamas did last week. They knew that Israel had the power to pound the entire Gaza region back into the stone age and yet Hamas still went ahead with their demonic mission. The same way you ask why did the Devil do what he did fully can also ask why the Hamas demons do what they did.

The devil was an ordinary person with a free will... Hamas are demons fully enslaved, fully leavened in evil. Demons know they are doomed and so will fight to keep the sinful elect in their sin with any manner of evil they can do, even if they know it will fail. Before they became demons by their free will they did not chose to become demonic - they thought they were saving the rest of us from the demon YHWH, a liar and a false god.

IF asked why he did what he did to become satanic, Satan or a demon will answer the same - I thought I was doing the right thing, the choice that would bring those who followed me to a full and better happiness than YHWH offered with his lies.

They can't be forgiven because
- they made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity and be to their saviour from any sin by their free will and a free will decision cannot be changed by anyone unless the person asks for it to be changed. If their free will decision is not sacrosanct because YHWH didn't like it, it can't be called free can it?

- Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil and became committed fully to the belief they were right to rebel against YHWH, unable to save themselves by changing their mind, Rom 1:18 to the end, though outside of HIS tender mercies forever by their free will rejection of HIM as their saviour.

 

[JLG]

Do you really believe that someone who knew the PROOF of YHWH's glory and eternal power could ever think that he would take his place or be equal to him??? Can anyone who can't create a universe think that he can?? Absurd!!

Even more absurd is the idea that someone who knows he is not a God and that if HE rebels against YHWH as HIS GOD and savior he will end in eternal hell suffering, goes ahead and makes the decision to rebuke YHWH as a liar and a false god!!! Choosing to go to a proven eternal hell rather than a proven heaven is absurd on the order of an absolute insanity!!!

Do we condemn the deranged insane to eternal suffering or do we cure them???

Rather, Satan and his angels rebelled against YHWH's CLAIMS to be our GOD and saviour from all sin, without proof, putting their hope without proof in the idea that HE was the same as everyone else and therefore a liar and therefore they rebuked HIM as a false god by faith, ie, hope, not proof. They heard these claims when HE proclaimed HIS deity and HIS gospel of salvation to every person under heaven, ie, every person who was ever created in HIS image, as mentioned in Colossians 1:23.

No one ends in hell because they are insane but only because they made a free will but sinful decision to NOT put their faith in YHWH as their GOD and saviour and so were condemned on the spot as having never believed In Christ's Name, ie, divine essence, as per John 3:18.

The proof that opened their eyes to their eternal fate in hell was seeing the creation of the physical universe but accepting the proof of GOD was not the criteria for being saved from sin but faith, an unproven hope, was the only criteria.

- Matthew 4:8

Again,
Πάλιν (Palin)
Adverb
Strong's 3825: Probably from the same as pale; anew, i.e. back, once more, or furthermore or on the other hand.

the
ὁ (ho)
Article - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

devil
διάβολος (diabolos)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1228: From diaballo; a traducer; specially, Satan.

took
παραλαμβάνει (paralambanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 3880: From para and lambano; to receive near, i.e. Associate with oneself; by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn.

Him
αὐτὸν (auton)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Accusative Masculine 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 846: He, she, it, they, them, same. From the particle au; the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person, and of the other persons.

to
εἰς (eis)
Preposition
Strong's 1519: A primary preposition; to or into, of place, time, or purpose; also in adverbial phrases.

a very
λίαν (lian)
Adverb
Strong's 3029: Very; very much, exceedingly, greatly. Of uncertain affinity; much.

high
ὑψηλὸν (hypsēlon)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 5308: High, lofty. From hupsos; lofty.

mountain
ὄρος (oros)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 3735: A mountain, hill. Probably from an obsolete oro; a mountain: -hill, mount(-ain).

and
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's 2532: And, even, also, namely.

showed
δείκνυσιν (deiknysin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 1166: A prolonged form of an obsolete primary of the same meaning; to show.

Him
αὐτῷ (autō)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Dative Masculine 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 846: He, she, it, they, them, same. From the particle au; the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person, and of the other persons.

all
πάσας (pasas)
Adjective - Accusative Feminine Plural
Strong's 3956: All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole.

the
τὰς (tas)
Article - Accusative Feminine Plural
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

kingdoms
βασιλείας (basileias)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Plural
Strong's 932: From basileus; properly, royalty, i.e. rule, or a realm.

of the
τοῦ (tou)
Article - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

world
κόσμου (kosmou)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's 2889: Probably from the base of komizo; orderly arrangement, i.e. Decoration; by implication, the world (morally).

and
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's 2532: And, even, also, namely.

their
αὐτῶν (autōn)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive Feminine 3rd Person Plural
Strong's 846: He, she, it, they, them, same. From the particle au; the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person, and of the other persons.

glory.
δόξαν (doxan)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 1391: From the base of dokeo; glory, in a wide application.

- Matthew 4:9

“All
πάντα (panta)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Plural
Strong's 3956: All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole.

this
Ταῦτά (Tauta)
Demonstrative Pronoun - Accusative Neuter Plural
Strong's 3778: This; he, she, it.

I will give
δώσω (dōsō)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's 1325: To offer, give; I put, place. A prolonged form of a primary verb; to give.

You,”
σοι (soi)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Dative 2nd Person Singular
Strong's 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

he said,
εἶπεν (eipen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 2036: Answer, bid, bring word, command. A primary verb; to speak or say.

“if
ἐὰν (ean)
Conjunction
Strong's 1437: If. From ei and an; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.

You will fall down
πεσὼν (pesōn)
Verb - Aorist Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4098: A reduplicated and contracted form of peto; probably akin to petomai through the idea of alighting; to fall.

[and] worship
προσκυνήσῃς (proskynēsēs)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 2nd Person Singular
Strong's 4352: From pros and a probable derivative of kuon; to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

me.”
μοι (moi)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Dative 1st Person Singular
Strong's 1473: I, the first-person pronoun. A primary pronoun of the first person I.

 

[JLG]

Do you really believe that someone who knew the PROOF of YHWH's glory and eternal power could ever think that he would take his place or be equal to him??? Can anyone who can't create a universe think that he can?? Absurd!!

Even more absurd is the idea that someone who knows he is not a God and that if HE rebels against YHWH as HIS GOD and savior he will end in eternal hell suffering, goes ahead and makes the decision to rebuke YHWH as a liar and a false god!!! Choosing to go to a proven eternal hell rather than a proven heaven is absurd on the order of an absolute insanity!!!

Do we condemn the deranged insane to eternal suffering or do we cure them???

Rather, Satan and his angels rebelled against YHWH's CLAIMS to be our GOD and saviour from all sin, without proof, putting their hope without proof in the idea that HE was the same as everyone else and therefore a liar and therefore they rebuked HIM as a false god by faith, ie, hope, not proof. They heard these claims when HE proclaimed HIS deity and HIS gospel of salvation to every person under heaven, ie, every person who was ever created in HIS image, as mentioned in Colossians 1:23.

No one ends in hell because they are insane but only because they made a free will but sinful decision to NOT put their faith in YHWH as their GOD and saviour and so were condemned on the spot as having never believed In Christ's Name, ie, divine essence, as per John 3:18.

The proof that opened their eyes to their eternal fate in hell was seeing the creation of the physical universe but accepting the proof of GOD was not the criteria for being saved from sin but faith, an unproven hope, was the only criteria.

- 2 corinthians 4:4

The
ὁ (ho)
Article - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

god
θεὸς (theos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

of this
τούτου (toutou)
Demonstrative Pronoun - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's 3778: This; he, she, it.

age
αἰῶνος (aiōnos)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's 165: From the same as aei; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity; by implication, the world; specially a Messianic period.

has blinded
ἐτύφλωσεν (etyphlōsen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5186: To make blind, physically or mentally. From tuphlos; to make blind, i.e. to obscure.

the
τὰ (ta)
Article - Accusative Neuter Plural
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

minds
νοήματα (noēmata)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Plural
Strong's 3540: From noieo; a perception, i.e. Purpose, or the intellect, disposition, itself.

of
τῶν (tōn)
Article - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

unbelievers
ἀπίστων (apistōn)
Adjective - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's 571: (passively) untrustworthy (person), or incredible (thing).

so
εἰς (eis)
Preposition
Strong's 1519: A primary preposition; to or into, of place, time, or purpose; also in adverbial phrases.

they cannot see
αὐγάσαι (augasai)
Verb - Aorist Infinitive Active
Strong's 826: To flash, gleam, shine forth, appear white, bright; but perhaps: I see, see clearly, discern. From auge; to beam forth.

the
τὸν (ton)
Article - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

light
φωτισμὸν (phōtismon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 5462: Light, luster, illumination, enlightenment. From photizo; illumination.

of the
τοῦ (tou)
Article - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

gospel
εὐαγγελίου (euangeliou)
Noun - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's 2098: From the same as euaggelizo; a good message, i.e. The gospel.

of the
τῆς (tēs)
Article - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

glory
δόξης (doxēs)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 1391: From the base of dokeo; glory, in a wide application.

of Christ,
Χριστοῦ (Christou)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's 5547: Anointed One; the Messiah, the Christ. From chrio; Anointed One, i.e. The Messiah, an epithet of Jesus.

who
ὅς (hos)
Personal / Relative Pronoun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3739: Who, which, what, that.

is
ἐστιν (estin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 1510: I am, exist. The first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist.

[the] image
εἰκὼν (eikōn)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's 1504: An image, likeness, bust. From eiko; a likeness, i.e. statue, profile, or representation, resemblance.

of God.
Θεοῦ (Theou)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

 

[JLG]

Do you really believe that someone who knew the PROOF of YHWH's glory and eternal power could ever think that he would take his place or be equal to him??? Can anyone who can't create a universe think that he can?? Absurd!!

Even more absurd is the idea that someone who knows he is not a God and that if HE rebels against YHWH as HIS GOD and savior he will end in eternal hell suffering, goes ahead and makes the decision to rebuke YHWH as a liar and a false god!!! Choosing to go to a proven eternal hell rather than a proven heaven is absurd on the order of an absolute insanity!!!

Do we condemn the deranged insane to eternal suffering or do we cure them???

Rather, Satan and his angels rebelled against YHWH's CLAIMS to be our GOD and saviour from all sin, without proof, putting their hope without proof in the idea that HE was the same as everyone else and therefore a liar and therefore they rebuked HIM as a false god by faith, ie, hope, not proof. They heard these claims when HE proclaimed HIS deity and HIS gospel of salvation to every person under heaven, ie, every person who was ever created in HIS image, as mentioned in Colossians 1:23.

No one ends in hell because they are insane but only because they made a free will but sinful decision to NOT put their faith in YHWH as their GOD and saviour and so were condemned on the spot as having never believed In Christ's Name, ie, divine essence, as per John 3:18.

The proof that opened their eyes to their eternal fate in hell was seeing the creation of the physical universe but accepting the proof of GOD was not the criteria for being saved from sin but faith, an unproven hope, was the only criteria.

- James 1:14

But
δὲ (de)
Conjunction
Strong's 1161: A primary particle; but, and, etc.

each one
ἕκαστος (hekastos)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1538: Each (of more than two), every one. As if a superlative of hekas; each or every.

is tempted
πειράζεται (peirazetai)
Verb - Present Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 3985: To try, tempt, test. From peira; to test, i.e. Endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline.

[when] by
ὑπὸ (hypo)
Preposition
Strong's 5259: A primary preposition; under, i.e. of place, or with verbs; of place (underneath) or where (below) or time (when).

[his]
τῆς (tēs)
Article - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

own
ἰδίας (idias)
Adjective - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 2398: Pertaining to self, i.e. One's own; by implication, private or separate.

evil desires
ἐπιθυμίας (epithymias)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 1939: Desire, eagerness for, inordinate desire, lust. From epithumeo; a longing.

he is lured away
ἐξελκόμενος (exelkomenos)
Verb - Present Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1828: From ek and helkuo; to drag forth, i.e. to entice.

and
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's 2532: And, even, also, namely.

enticed.
δελεαζόμενος (deleazomenos)
Verb - Present Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1185: To allure, entice (by a bait). From the base of dolos; to entrap, i.e. delude.

- James 1:15

Then
εἶτα (eita)
Adverb
Strong's 1534: A particle of succession, then, moreover.

[after] desire
ἐπιθυμία (epithymia)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's 1939: Desire, eagerness for, inordinate desire, lust. From epithumeo; a longing.

has conceived,
συλλαβοῦσα (syllabousa)
Verb - Aorist Participle Active - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's 4815: From sun and lambano; to clasp, i.e. Seize; specially, to conceive; by implication, to aid.

it gives birth to
τίκτει (tiktei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5088: A strengthened form of a primary teko tek'-o; to produce, literally or figuratively.

sin;
ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 266: From hamartano; a sin.

and
δὲ (de)
Conjunction
Strong's 1161: A primary particle; but, and, etc.

sin,
ἁμαρτία (hamartia)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's 266: From hamartano; a sin.

when it is fully grown,
ἀποτελεσθεῖσα (apotelestheisa)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's 658: To complete, accomplish, form fully, perfect, bring to maturity. From apo and teleo; to complete entirely, i.e. Consummate.

gives birth to
ἀποκύει (apokyei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 616: From apo and the base of kuma; to breed forth, i.e. to generate.

death.
θάνατον (thanaton)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2288: Death, physical or spiritual. From thnesko; death.

 

[JLG]

Do you really believe that someone who knew the PROOF of YHWH's glory and eternal power could ever think that he would take his place or be equal to him??? Can anyone who can't create a universe think that he can?? Absurd!!

Even more absurd is the idea that someone who knows he is not a God and that if HE rebels against YHWH as HIS GOD and savior he will end in eternal hell suffering, goes ahead and makes the decision to rebuke YHWH as a liar and a false god!!! Choosing to go to a proven eternal hell rather than a proven heaven is absurd on the order of an absolute insanity!!!

Do we condemn the deranged insane to eternal suffering or do we cure them???

Rather, Satan and his angels rebelled against YHWH's CLAIMS to be our GOD and saviour from all sin, without proof, putting their hope without proof in the idea that HE was the same as everyone else and therefore a liar and therefore they rebuked HIM as a false god by faith, ie, hope, not proof. They heard these claims when HE proclaimed HIS deity and HIS gospel of salvation to every person under heaven, ie, every person who was ever created in HIS image, as mentioned in Colossians 1:23.

No one ends in hell because they are insane but only because they made a free will but sinful decision to NOT put their faith in YHWH as their GOD and saviour and so were condemned on the spot as having never believed In Christ's Name, ie, divine essence, as per John 3:18.

The proof that opened their eyes to their eternal fate in hell was seeing the creation of the physical universe but accepting the proof of GOD was not the criteria for being saved from sin but faith, an unproven hope, was the only criteria.

- Genesis 6:1

Now
וַֽיְהִי֙ (way·hî)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 1961: To fall out, come to pass, become, be

when
כִּֽי־ (kî-)
Conjunction
Strong's 3588: A relative conjunction

men
הָֽאָדָ֔ם (hā·’ā·ḏām)
Article | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 120: Ruddy, a human being

began
הֵחֵ֣ל (hê·ḥêl)
Verb - Hifil - Perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 2490: To bore, to wound, to dissolve, to profane, to break, to begin, to play

to multiply
לָרֹ֖ב (lā·rōḇ)
Preposition-l | Verb - Qal - Infinitive construct
Strong's 7231: To cast together, increase, in number, to multiply by the myriad

on
עַל־ (‘al-)
Preposition
Strong's 5921: Above, over, upon, against

the face
פְּנֵ֣י (pə·nê)
Noun - common plural construct
Strong's 6440: The face

of the earth
הָֽאֲדָמָ֑ה (hā·’ă·ḏā·māh)
Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's 127: Ground, land

and daughters
וּבָנ֖וֹת (ū·ḇā·nō·wṯ)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - feminine plural
Strong's 1323: A daughter

were born
יֻלְּד֥וּ (yul·lə·ḏū)
Verb - QalPass - Perfect - third person common plural
Strong's 3205: To bear young, to beget, medically, to act as midwife, to show lineage

to them,
לָהֶֽם׃ (lā·hem)
Preposition | third person masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew

- Genesis 6:2

the sons
בְנֵי־ (ḇə·nê-)
Noun - masculine plural construct
Strong's 1121: A son

of God
הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ (hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 430: gods -- the supreme God, magistrates, a superlative

saw that
וַיִּרְא֤וּ (way·yir·’ū)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine plural
Strong's 7200: To see

the daughters
בְּנ֣וֹת (bə·nō·wṯ)
Noun - feminine plural construct
Strong's 1323: A daughter

of men
הָֽאָדָ֔ם (hā·’ā·ḏām)
Article | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 120: Ruddy, a human being

[were] beautiful,
טֹבֹ֖ת (ṭō·ḇōṯ)
Adjective - feminine plural
Strong's 2896: Pleasant, agreeable, good

and they took
וַיִּקְח֤וּ (way·yiq·ḥū)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine plural
Strong's 3947: To take

as wives
נָשִׁ֔ים (nā·šîm)
Noun - feminine plural
Strong's 802: Woman, wife, female

whomever
אֲשֶׁ֥ר (’ă·šer)
Pronoun - relative
Strong's 834: Who, which, what, that, when, where, how, because, in order that

they chose.
בָּחָֽרוּ׃ (bā·ḥā·rū)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person common plural
Strong's 977: To try, select

 

[JLG]

The devil was an ordinary person with a free will... Hamas are demons fully enslaved, fully leavened in evil. Demons know they are doomed and so will fight to keep the sinful elect in their sin with any manner of evil they can do, even if they know it will fail. Before they became demons by their free will they did not chose to become demonic - they thought they were saving the rest of us from the demon YHWH, a liar and a false god.

IF asked why he did what he did to become satanic, Satan or a demon will answer the same - I thought I was doing the right thing, the choice that would bring those who followed me to a full and better happiness than YHWH offered with his lies.

They can't be forgiven because
- they made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity and be to their saviour from any sin by their free will and a free will decision cannot be changed by anyone unless the person asks for it to be changed. If their free will decision is not sacrosanct because YHWH didn't like it, it can't be called free can it?

- Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil and became committed fully to the belief they were right to rebel against YHWH, unable to save themselves by changing their mind, Rom 1:18 to the end, though outside of HIS tender mercies forever by their free will rejection of HIM as their saviour.

- Job 1:8

Then the LORD
יְהוָה֙ (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's 3068: LORD -- the proper name of the God of Israel

said
וַיֹּ֤אמֶר (way·yō·mer)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 559: To utter, say

to
אֶל־ (’el-)
Preposition
Strong's 413: Near, with, among, to

Satan,
הַשָּׂטָ֔ן (haś·śā·ṭān)
Article | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 7854: An opponent -- Satan, the arch-enemy of good

“Have you considered
הֲשַׂ֥מְתָּ (hă·śam·tā)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's 7760: Put -- to put, place, set

My servant
עַבְדִּ֣י (‘aḇ·dî)
Noun - masculine singular construct | first person common singular
Strong's 5650: Slave, servant

Job?
אִיּ֑וֹב (’î·yō·wḇ)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's 347: Job -- a patriarch

For
כִּ֣י (kî)
Conjunction
Strong's 3588: A relative conjunction

[there is] no one
אֵ֤ין (’ên)
Adverb
Strong's 369: A non-entity, a negative particle

on earth
בָּאָ֔רֶץ (bā·’ā·reṣ)
Preposition-b, Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's 776: Earth, land

like him,
כָּמֹ֙הוּ֙ (kā·mō·hū)
Preposition | third person masculine singular
Strong's 3644: Like, as, when

a man
אִ֣ישׁ (’îš)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 376: A man as an individual, a male person

[who is] blameless
תָּ֧ם (tām)
Adjective - masculine singular
Strong's 8535: Complete, pious, gentle, dear

and upright,
וְיָשָׁ֛ר (wə·yā·šār)
Conjunctive waw | Adjective - masculine singular
Strong's 3477: Straight, right

who fears
יְרֵ֥א (yə·rê)
Adjective - masculine singular construct
Strong's 3373: Fearing, reverent

God
אֱלֹהִ֖ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 430: gods -- the supreme God, magistrates, a superlative

and shuns
וְסָ֥ר (wə·sār)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong's 5493: To turn aside

evil.”
מֵרָֽע׃ (mê·rā‘)
Preposition-m | Adjective - masculine singular
Strong's 7451: Bad, evil

- Job 1:9

Satan
הַשָּׂטָ֛ן (haś·śā·ṭān)
Article | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 7854: An opponent -- Satan, the arch-enemy of good

answered
וַיַּ֧עַן (way·ya·‘an)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 6030: To answer, respond

the LORD,
יְהוָ֖ה (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's 3068: LORD -- the proper name of the God of Israel

“Does Job
אִיּ֖וֹב (’î·yō·wḇ)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's 347: Job -- a patriarch

fear
יָרֵ֥א (yā·rê)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 3372: To fear, to revere, caus, to frighten

God
אֱלֹהִֽים׃ (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 430: gods -- the supreme God, magistrates, a superlative

for nothing?
הַֽחִנָּ֔ם (ha·ḥin·nām)
Adverb
Strong's 2600: Gratis, devoid of cost, reason, advantage

- Job 1:10

Have You not
הֲלֹֽא־ (hă·lō-)
Adverb - Negative particle
Strong's 3808: Not, no

placed a hedge
שַׂ֣כְתָּ (śaḵ·tā)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's 7753: To hedge or fence up or about

on every side
מִסָּבִ֑יב (mis·sā·ḇîḇ)
Preposition-m | Adverb
Strong's 5439: A circle, neighbour, environs, around

around him
בַעֲד֧וֹ (ḇa·‘ă·ḏōw)
Preposition | third person masculine singular
Strong's 1157: In up to, over against, at, beside, among, behind, for

and his household
בֵּית֛וֹ (bê·ṯōw)
Noun - masculine singular construct | third person masculine singular
Strong's 1004: A house

and
וּבְעַ֥ד (ū·ḇə·‘aḏ)
Conjunctive waw | Preposition
Strong's 1157: In up to, over against, at, beside, among, behind, for

all
כָּל־ (kāl-)
Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's 3605: The whole, all, any, every

that
אֲשֶׁר־ (’ă·šer-)
Pronoun - relative
Strong's 834: Who, which, what, that, when, where, how, because, in order that

he owns?
ל֖וֹ (lōw)
Preposition | third person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew

You have blessed
בֵּרַ֔כְתָּ (bê·raḵ·tā)
Verb - Piel - Perfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's 1288: To kneel, to bless God, man, to curse

the work
מַעֲשֵׂ֤ה (ma·‘ă·śêh)
Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's 4639: An action, a transaction, activity, a product, property

of his hands,
יָדָיו֙ (yā·ḏāw)
Noun - fdc | third person masculine singular
Strong's 3027: A hand

and his possessions
וּמִקְנֵ֖הוּ (ū·miq·nê·hū)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - masculine singular construct | third person masculine singular
Strong's 4735: Something bought, property, livestock, acquisition

have increased
פָּרַ֥ץ (pā·raṣ)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 6555: To break through

in the land.
בָּאָֽרֶץ׃ (bā·’ā·reṣ)
Preposition-b, Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's 776: Earth, land

- Then go back to what the devil did with Jesus when he tempted him!

 

[TedT]

None of this proves nor can prove that the psychology of Satan, the person most leavened with evil, had the same psychology now as he had before he chose to rebuke YHWH. This is a dead horse amigo...

Evil changes people so an evil person now must have changed from before he chose evil unless GOD created them evil and they just live to fulfill their creation...

 

[JLG]

None of this proves nor can prove that the psychology of Satan, the person most leavened with evil, had the same psychology now as he had before he chose to rebuke YHWH. This is a dead horse amigo...

Evil changes people so an evil person now must have changed from before he chose evil unless GOD created them evil and they just live to fulfill their creation...

- All the angels are perfect!
- So they know that if they oppose Yah.weh, they will die!
- It was the same for Adam and Eve!
- Adam chose to follow Eve, that's a bit different!
- But at the end it is the same!
- Free will!
- Free choice!
-Simple as crystal!