Justice "served" in the Atonement?

[praise_yeshua]

While attention is given to the actions of they, the passage’s emphasis lies elsewhere-on what YHWH was effecting upon the He, as portrayed throughout the parashah.

J.

Not true. Prove it. Such comes from a tainted "Hebrew" manuscript from only the 9th century. These people you follow and admire are leading you astray.

Are you fearful of making enemies if you draw near to God? Most people are. I have been myself.

 

[Studyman]

I know you didn't ask me, but the answer to this is of the utmost importance and decides our eternal destiny.

Unless we truly trust in Christ to bear the punishment our sins deserve on the Cross, there is literally no other way to heaven.

We will be cast out if that is not our one and only hope of righteousness.

Yes, truly any sins of man that are forgiven, is only made possible by the Sacrifice of Lord's Christ.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

When? Clearly there is still Sin in the world, Yes?

As I have said many times. You do not do what your nick suggests.

The lamb took away the PENALTY OF SIN. Sin was still prevalent however. thats why year after year the High priests had to sacrifice more lambs and animals for sin.

Jesus sacrificed himself once and sits by the right hand of God.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If God punished you for your sin, you wouldn't be alive right now. Same is true of all of us.

Everyone wants "justice" for some other person's sin. Not their own.

we are seperated God at this moment (unless we are born again) as a punishment for sin.

Thats why we need saved. if we do not get saved. our seperation will be eternal

 

[civic]

Not true. Prove it. Such comes from a tainted "Hebrew" manuscript from only the 9th century. These people you follow and admire are leading you astray.

Are you fearful of making enemies if you draw near to God? Most people are. I have been myself.

Yes there are so many misunderstood ideas and doctrines on the atonement. It’s the human heart that wants retribution, not Jesus. He flipped the script upside down at the cross.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God over and over again bypasses the law and shows mercy, grace, forgiveness, not retribution. This is the case with Israel over and over again and God listening to His prophets interceding on their behalf and not wiping them out. God did the same with David who under the law was a murderer- an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth- He under the law should of been stoned. But God declares the LOrd has put away your sin, you shall not die. God bypasses retribution/justice with David. And yet the law states parents shall not be put to death for their children and vice versa. Deuteronomy 24:16. Once again God bypasses the law and does as He pleases. God is not bound by the law.

Actually as a perfect judge, He is bound by the law. Thats why the moment adam sinned he died.

He is not bound to punish as per the law. agreed.. David should have been stoned. but that was a civil punishment for the jewish nation.

And the cross is not about retribution or justice or the law.

Amen. its not. Its God satisfying his wrath

Its all about Gods love, mercy, grace and forgiveness.

Amen.. Based on the cross

remove the cross. and there is no eternal grace. we would all spend eternity in hell

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes there are so many misunderstood ideas and doctrines on the atonement. It’s the human heart that wants retribution, not Jesus. He flipped the script upside down at the cross.

Yes.

He who knew no sin because sin for us..

 

[praise_yeshua]

God over and over again bypasses the law and shows mercy, grace, forgiveness, not retribution. This is the case with Israel over and over agins and God listening to His prophets interceding on their behalf and not wiping them out. God did the same with David who under the law was a murderer- an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth- He under the law should of been stoned. But God declares the LOrd has put away your sin, you shall not die. God bypasses retribution/justice with David. And yet the law states parents shall not be put to death for their children and vice versa. Deuteronomy 24:16. Once again God bypasses the law and does as He pleases. God is not bound by the law. And the cross is not about retribution or justice or the law. Its all about Gods love, mercy, grace and forgiveness.

The law reflects what we actually are. It is a mirror to our own desires. That is why I often ask the question

"Would you stone your own children for cursing you"?

There is no sense of justice in forgiveness. It is the absence of what man considers justice. It is why Jesus appealed to what "Moses" told them in "eye for an eye"...... "Tooth for a tooth".

It is why Paul spoke of how the law itself actually imparts the knowledge to enable a person to break the law itself. "How should I even know"... to covet unless the law tells me not to covet.

Why are we subject to "ordinances" such as "taste not". "Handle not" that ultimately die/perish with the using.

When most people speak of some "law", they pretend it doesn't apply to them. Even when they do realize that it does, they think forgiveness does away with their inabilities.

 

[praise_yeshua]

we are seperated God at this moment (unless we are born again) as a punishment for sin.

Nope. Adam didn't lose the presence of God. God went with Adam when Adam was driven from the garden.

This is all about Eternal Life itself. God has tolerated sin for a very long time. Ignorance is the cause of many sins. Ignorance often involves innocence. God doesn't hold the innocent guilty of sin.

God drove Adam from the garden for man's own benefit.

Thats why we need saved. if we do not get saved. our seperation will be eternal

Traditions of men.

We need to be saved from ourselves and others. God is not far from us all.....

Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

I believe Paul had Psalms in mind when he said these words......

Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Psa 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

Psa 38:21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me.

There are many reasons why people think God is far from them. Most of this comes from what "we" preach.

God isn't far from any of us. God may seem distant but most of the time, it is for a reason. It might even be for others. I might be for us. It might even be the circumstances of life. "Seasons change my friend".....

The human condition is more than just sinfulness. We manufacturer sinners ourselves.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Actually as a perfect judge, He is bound by the law. Thats why the moment adam sinned he died.

Adam didn't die. He lived for close to a thousand years and there is no evidence that even suggests Adam was "spiritually alive" when he was made a "living soul". Adam was not self sufficient.

He is not bound to punish as per the law. agreed.. David should have been stoned. but that was a civil punishment for the jewish nation.

Civil..... Geesh.

Don't judge what was by what is.... today. There is no context of "civil" matters in the law of Moses. By your own beliefs, any sin requires swift justice in punishment. There is no justice in forbearance and longsuffering.

Amen. its not. Its God satisfying his wrath

You know, it is difficult to deal with someone that just keeps repeating the same sin over and over again like you're doing. Do you not realize that a "Little sin" .... "leavens" the entire "loaf"?

So what is it exactly when you claim God is being wrathful when God isn't...... Is that sin?

I'm not calling for "justice" for this sin you keep repeating. I just want you to listen and pay attention to what you're saying. You're not hurting me with it. I'm free from such nonsense.

Amen.. Based on the cross

remove the cross. and there is no eternal grace. we would all spend eternity in hell

Remove the cross and you remove Eternal Life. Grace is everywhere around us. Life is innately temporal for all created things. Eternal Life only exists in Divinity. It only exists in Jesus Christ. He alone has Immortality.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Adam was never Innately Immortal. Never. He was made from ashes and dust. Everything good about Adam came from God. Ashes and dust are things that were formerly alive.... temporal.

@civic
I wish more people knew the Innate and Intrinsic attributes of the Incarnation and Holy Trinity. It would change their lives....

Everything good is external to us. It comes from another. It is not our own....

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

 

[civic]

Adam didn't die. He lived for close to a thousand years and there is no evidence that even suggests Adam was "spiritually alive" when he was made a "living soul". Adam was not self sufficient.



Civil..... Geesh.

Don't judge what was by what is.... today. There is no context of "civil" matters in the law of Moses. By your own beliefs, any sin requires swift justice in punishment. There is no justice in forbearance and longsuffering.



You know, it is difficult to deal with someone that just keeps repeating the same sin over and over again like you're doing. Do you not realize that a "Little sin" .... "leavens" the entire "loaf"?

So what is it exactly when you claim God is being wrathful when God isn't...... Is that sin?

I'm not calling for "justice" for this sin you keep repeating. I just want you to listen and pay attention to what you're saying. You're not hurting me with it. I'm free from such nonsense.



Remove the cross and you remove Eternal Life. Grace is everywhere around us. Life is innately temporal for all created things. Eternal Life only exists in Divinity. It only exists in Jesus Christ. He alone has Immortality.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Adam was never Innately Immortal. Never. He was made from ashes and dust. Everything good about Adam came from God. Ashes and dust are things that were formerly alive.... temporal.

@civic
I wish more people knew the Innate and Intrinsic attributes of the Incarnation and Holy Trinity. It would change their lives....

Everything good is external to us. It comes from another. It is not our own....

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Yes the Trinity and the HU are at the heart of the issue and most do not understand the Tri-Unity of God.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Nope. Adam didn't lose the presence of God. God went with Adam when Adam was driven from the garden.

God told Adam, in the moment you sin, you will die

We know by adams response after he sinned. The things of God became foolishness' to him. He was separated by God

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Adam didn't die. He lived for close to a thousand years and there is no evidence that even suggests Adam was "spiritually alive" when he was made a "living soul". Adam was not self sufficient.

shaking my head

If physical death was the wage of sin. Then there will be no one in hell. since everyone will die physically.

Adam dies the moment he sinned.,. There was a barrier between him and God. and God had to restore adam ro life..

 

[praise_yeshua]

God told Adam, in the moment you sin, you will die

We know by adams response after he sinned. The things of God became foolishness' to him. He was separated by God

Don't blame God with what you're saying....

Quote what you're claiming God said..... It doesn't say that at all.

You're repeating the followers of Calvin. You're not quoting God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

shaking my head

If physical death was the wage of sin. Then there will be no one in hell. since everyone will die physically.

Ah.... Calvinist logic. Calvinist reasoning. Adam didn't go to hell when he sinned. Where did you get that nonsense?

1. So who is in hell right now?
2. Why aren't you there?

Adam dies the moment he sinned.,. There was a barrier between him and God. and God had to restore adam ro life..

Adam didn't have Eternal life. He had to eat. He had to drink. He consumed life to sustain his own life. Adam sinned, which proves that Adam wasn't made perfect. Perfection can't sin.

You should know this but you don't. We call this "Impeccability". Ask your AI of choice. It probably knows more about it than you do.

Since "God is with you", then why don't you know?

This is the kind of logic that escape the "wise" in this world. Don't miss the forest for the trees Calvin planted.

 

[praise_yeshua]

shaking my head

If physical death was the wage of sin. Then there will be no one in hell. since everyone will die physically.

Adam dies the moment he sinned.,. There was a barrier between him and God. and God had to restore adam ro life..

If you put forth the effort to contrast what Adam was made original against the "model" of Immortality in Jesus Christ, you will come to no less conclusion than the fact that Adam was never originally made completely in the image of God.

Like the "clay" on the wheel.... God found "FAULT" in the clay. So God did a new work. Not the work in Adam. The work in Christ.

Flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Adam was flesh from the beginning. That is why Adam is of the earth.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

I've been long surprised at just how little the average Christian actually knows about Theology. Not that I expect you to. Just don't pretend to know something you don't. Know. All you're doing is lying to yourself.

I did this myself many years ago. I realized I was just repeating what others told me. I went looking myself. I'm still looking myself.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Don't blame God with what you're saying....

Quote what you're claiming God said..... It doesn't say that at all.

You're repeating the followers of Calvin. You're not quoting God.

17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Now I am doing it for real.. I am not a calvinist. and your false accusation is the last straw. Good day

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Hate using ignore. but sometimes you just have to. stop feeding the troll

 

[praise_yeshua]

17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Now I am doing it for real.. I am not a calvinist. and your false accusation is the last straw. Good day

You know how many Calvinists have told me they weren't Calvinists.

Walk like a duck, quack like a duck.......

You don't see yourself as one but you're just like a Calvinist.

How many times now have you responded to me and NOW... I'm a troll because I stand against your false claims? Yeah. Like that hasn't happened before......

Now, to those looking.....

Pay attention to the claim "in the moment Adam sinned" as stated previously becomes "day" when quoted from Moses......

See how "day" became "moment". Anything wrong here?

 

[Dizerner]

The one distinctive aspect of Calvinism is the denial of Free Will.

Else, I don't think there is legitimate reason to accuse a person of it.