John 6:44
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Azriel
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Excellent video, John 6 is one of the most referenced chapters in the discussion over mankind’s God given abilities to respond willingly to the gospel. And Leighton has the most clear understanding of it that I've heard.
John 6:44 shows how The Twelve were drawn to Him through clear persuasive teachings and miraculous signs. They had been “taught of God” and had “learned from the Father.” John 6:45
John 6:44 shows how The Twelve were drawn to Him through clear persuasive teachings and miraculous signs. They had been “taught of God” and had “learned from the Father.” John 6:45
civic
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He did an excellent job
civic
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Take a look at the closing argument at 1:46.
Aeliana
Well-known member
Leighton is the best.
Clifford
Active member
Here's another debate
Leighton Flowers VS James White: The John 6:44 Debate | Does John 6:44 Teach Unconditional Election?
Video link here>>>
civic
Well-known member
Yes white was wrong with his Greek argument as Leighton had a follow up with a scholar yesterday and also DA Carson a Calvinist Greek linguist and theologian ansi proved white was incorrect with his Greek argument.
mailmandan
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So, in regard to John 6:44, we cannot deny that all have been drawn to Christ (see John 12:32) yet many people still resist that drawing. All who come must have been drawn, but it cannot equate to all that are drawn must come. It's like in John 1:9, Jesus is described as the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this does not mean that every man is saved. The light either leads to salvation by receiving Jesus Christ through faith or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.
civic
Well-known member
Ditto
John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
It seems, as other Scriptures confirm, that ALL men love darkness. But there are two kinds of men who love darkness in this message from the Christ. One kind works to protect and preserve their darkness, (Religious traditions and philosophies of men, pride, self-exaltation, etc.) by avoiding parts of the Word of God "The Light" "Lest the darkness should be exposed". This was evident in the mainstream religion of Jesus' Time when HE showed the Pharisees God's Word, which condemned their manmade religious doctrines and traditions, but the Pharisees refused to acknowledge them because to do so would reprove or expose their religious traditions as from man and not God, and they are very precious to them. More precious than the truth from "The Light" so they just avoided God's Word in order to preserve their own darkness.
The other kind of man who loves the darkness doesn't hide from his own flesh, and comes to the Word of God, "The Light", for the very purpose of exposing the darkness he knows exists within his heart. He knows because God's Word told him. Once exposed, the darkness can be defeated, destroyed. This causes humiliation and shame sometimes, which bring to the man a broken and contrite heart, but what is left is wrought in God and brings great blessings to this man.
So yes, God calls EVERY Man "because they love darkness". But not all men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, believe Him enough to let His Word expose their deeds.
I love these Words of Christ and what they can do for men who believe them.
It is not necessary to conclude all were drawn. The fact all who hear and learn come to Christ is sufficient. It is not unconditional as one must hear and learn. Learning involves more that just hearing. Dr White in his debate with Dr flowers seemed to just ignore that.
mailmandan
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Yes, learning is critical and not just hearing alone.
civic
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Amen
Certainly. it did not however advance the theology of Dr White to recognize this
brightfame52
Well-known member
The drawing in Jn 6:44 and Jn 12:32 is regeneration and conversion. It doesnt apply to anyone who is never converted to Faith in Christ.
Faith precedes regeneration the impartation of life
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
civic
Well-known member
Nope regeneration is never mentioned in John 6, nice try. Also draw never means regeneration. Another failure showing man made doctrine takes the place of biblical truth.
civic
Well-known member
Reread John 6:44 it’s not mentioned
Dr White also denied the drawing is regeneration. Dr Flowers however noted that was contrary to what Dr White stated in his book "Drawn by the Father". However if drawing is not regeneration, and it is irresistible as Dr White claims, why does Calvinism hold man cannot believe unless regenerated? What need is there for two irresistible and unilateral causes?
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