JESUS Verses SAUL

[Elizabeth]

If there's one thing I have learned by being at Gentile Christian sites is that they do not believe what proof is put before them and reject the Scriptures which contradict their beliefs. Gentile Christianity will be judged for everything they have done in rejecting God's Law and replacing it with their own false teachings as well as for their treatment of the Jews.
If Christ did not come to destroy the Law and you are a servant of Israel's Messiah, then why aren't you practicing obedience to God's Laws? It's going to those same Laws God will use to judge Gentiles.
One more thing. After God destroys all Gentiles that came against Israel God is going to sit on His throne and all Jews will finally occupy their own land. God will cleanse the land of ALL Gentiles and finally Israel will be secure with their God at Jerusalem ruling the nations with a rod of iron and Israel with a shepherd's staff. I look forward to that day.

Scripture says a change of the priesthood necessitated a change of the law:

Heb 7:11-16
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Rom 7:5-6
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


And I think it would be good for you to also consider these:

Heb 13:12-14
Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Luk 17:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Wrong. The Apostle Λουκᾶς (Luke) was born Greek. Your ethnic cleansing crusade would have you rip out his Gospel from the Bible. Historically, Jews did something similar when they ripped out all Greek OT books written by their Greek speaking Jewish colleagues. So it's not beneath Pharsaic Jews to rip out portions of Bibles if their ethnic cleansing obsession demands it.

The oracles of God were given to the Hebrews as stated in Romans 3:2.

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Rom. 3:2.

In order for God to use Luke to write His inspired, Holy Word, he would have to be Jewish/Hebrew or God contradicts and opposes Himself by being liar and hypocrite. But since Luke was Hebrew God is none of those things. Amen and Amen.

 

[Elizabeth]

The oracles of God were given to the Hebrews as stated in Romans 3:2.

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Rom. 3:2.

In order for God to use Luke to write His inspired, Holy Word, he would have to be Jewish/Hebrew or God contradicts and opposes Himself by being liar and hypocrite. But since Luke was Hebrew God is none of those things. Amen and Amen.

I wouldn't write off Gentiles if I were you.....we were prophesied to happen.....all over the old testament scrips. But neither Jew nor Gentile should glory in the flesh..."now we know no man after the flesh any longer". Amazing that Israel is even instructed to receive good things from Gentiles, eg, Ruth...and Cyrus instructs the Jews to expect the messiah to be clothed in Gentile garb, as it were. Joseph foreshadows this too. All these types/shadows depict that as Gentiles initially received the gospel from the Jews, later on the Jews could expect to receive it (a Son!) from Gentiles.

Rom 11:30-33

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

 

[synergy]

The oracles of God were given to the Hebrews as stated in Romans 3:2.

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Rom. 3:2.

In order for God to use Luke to write His inspired, Holy Word, he would have to be Jewish/Hebrew or God contradicts and opposes Himself by being liar and hypocrite. But since Luke was Hebrew God is none of those things. Amen and Amen.

Λουκᾶς was born to Greek Parents in Antioch, Syria. As a Gentile, Λουκᾶς documents Jesus' genealogy all the way to Adam, which encompasses both Gentiles and Jews.

Also, you've got your time lines all mixed up. In Rom 3:2, Paul is referring to the Old Testament, which was indeed all written by the Jews. However, he could not be referring to the New Testament, as it did not yet even exist.

In addition, the book of Romans is filled with verses where Paul emphasizes that Jews and Gentiles are now “equal” in God’s eyes i.e. (Rom 10:12) (Rom 3:22,29) (Rom 1:16). Saying that God would not give revelation to a Gentile to write a book (books) of the Bible (New Testament) would mean that God “favored” the Jew over the Gentile, and He would be going against His very Word.

Conclusion: Your ethnic cleansing crusade just crashed and burned.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Scripture says a change of the priesthood necessitated a change of the law:

Heb 7:11-16
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Rom 7:5-6
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


And I think it would be good for you to also consider these:

Heb 13:12-14
Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Luk 17:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I have something here for you to consider:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mt 5:17–18.

Yeshua was accused of changing the Law of Moses through His teachings. However, the difficulty the religious leaders had in understanding Yeshua's teachings was that He was instructing the people the spirit of the Law and the religious leaders only understood the letter of the Law. And yet, what the religious leaders did was elevate their traditions above the Law and saw that Yeshua was not supporting their traditions. Yeshua constantly defended the Law against the teachings of the elders, against their traditions, and Yeshua defended the Law of God perfectly.

Besides verse 17 where Yeshua declares truthfully, He did not come to destroy the law, verse 18 carries with it an established fact that until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Law until all be fulfilled. This implies the Law cannot be changed (Hebrews 7) or destroyed, as any change in the Law is tantamount to destroying the Law. Additionally, the Law of Moses was given to the children of Israel at the time of the Tabernacle. As you may know the Tabernacle contains many prefigures, symbolisms, and representations in which everything about the Law of Moses and the Tabernacle (Bread of Life, Light of the world, the altar, the Mercy Seat, etc.) all prophesy and point to Israel's Redeemer and Savior, Yeshua Mashiach.

Now, we can say the Law of Moses/God is written in stone and it is. This implies a permanence and perpetual existence of the Law of God, as is said, "until all be fulfilled." But all has yet to be fulfilled. The Law of Moses cannot be destroyed or changed. The Law of Moses contains prophecy of Israel's Redeemer. IF the Law can be changed then this means it is destroyed, and if the Law is destroyed, then so is everything about Israel's Redeemer. In a sense it would be deicide.

We don't know who the author of Hebrews is. Some say it was written by Saul and others say it doesn't fit the style of Saul. Some have attributed Hebrews to Priscilla or even Apollos. Hebrews contains many good statements that line up with the Hebrew Scriptures, and some things, although difficult to reconcile, do not exactly fit, such as presenting a change in the Law of Moses and/or a change in the priesthood.

The conclusion I reach is that the order of Melchisedec was before the Law and separate from the Law of Moses. This leaves the Law of Moses unchangeable and intact. If Yeshua Mashiach does fulfill a priesthood after the order of Melchisedec it would be safe to say that although the Law says nothing about a High Priest coming out from the Tribe of Judah that too is fine and leaves the Law of Moses intact.

The church fathers were all Gentile. They gathered the scrolls for the purpose of a canon due to heresy in the Gentile church and persecution of the Gentile church. There were countless writings by the apostles copied, used in the church, and cared for and maintained. They had to sort out many writings by various Christians and non-Christian alike and when the final cut was made, we were left with a canon such as we have in our hands (depending on the source translation.) As a final note, I find Gentile Christians when discussing the Hebrew/Jewish covenants they rely heavily upon the New Covenant writings about things contained in the Hebrew Scripture rather than search the Hebrew Scriptures to find answers to our questions of faith and living for, as Yeshua Mashiach said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39.

He was talking about the unchangeable Law, Psalms, and the Prophets.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I wouldn't write off Gentiles if I were you.....we were prophesied to happen.....all over the old testament scrips.

Not "all over" but in places. The Hebrew Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is Hebrew Scriptures.

But neither Jew nor Gentile should glory in the flesh..."now we know no man after the flesh any longer". Amazing that Israel is even instructed to receive good things from Gentiles, eg, Ruth...and Cyrus instructs the Jews to expect the messiah to be clothed in Gentile garb, as it were. Joseph foreshadows this too. All these types/shadows depict that as Gentiles initially received the gospel from the Jews, later on the Jews could expect to receive it (a Son!) from Gentiles.

I don't know what you mean by "Gentile garb" but it sounds like a Gentile revision of history. Gentiles were enemies of Israel. And Israel was commanded to not mingle with the "Goyim" nor learn their ways as they were unclean before the Law and before God.

Rom 11:30-33
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Yes, and Saul wrote to Jewish Christians at Rome. All his letters and the letters of Peter, James, John, Matthrew, were written to Jewish followers of Christ in their various locations inside Israel and Jewish Christians in Gentile lands where the majority of Jews remained when Cyrus gave permission to return to their homeland. Only a remnant did return but the majority of Jews remained scattered throughout the then-known world. They were the targets of the eleven disciples Yeshua sent with the good news that Israel's Messiah had come and the message was salvation is of the Jews. God has kept His Promise (Deut. 18:15.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

Λουκᾶς was born to Greek Parents in Antioch, Syria. As a Gentile, Λουκᾶς documents Jesus' genealogy all the way to Adam, which encompasses both Gentiles and Jews.

But the Promise is through Isaac no matter what Gentiles Hebrew men married for in this patriarchal society it is the Hebrew man to which God's promises belong.

Also, you've got your time lines all mixed up. In Rom 3:2, Paul is referring to the Old Testament, which was indeed all written by the Jews. However, he could not be referring to the New Testament, as it did not yet even exist.

That's right. Whatever brain teasers Saul contemplated as he searched the Hebrew Scripture to understand and define the New Covenant that was initiated by God with the new births of 3000 Jews at Pentecost. And thousands more would be born again by weeks end. Glory, Glory Hallelu-JAH!

In addition, the book of Romans is filled with verses where Paul emphasizes that Jews and Gentiles are now “equal” in God’s eyes i.e. (Rom 10:12) (Rom 3:22,29) (Rom 1:16). Saying that God would not give revelation to a Gentile to write a book (books) of the Bible (New Testament) would mean that God “favored” the Jew over the Gentile, and He would be going against His very Word.

The Gentile and Greek mentioned in Romans 10:12 and 1:16 are proselytes. They would be the first Gentiles to hear the good news of Messiah's coming and overcoming death for His Covenant people. Proselytes and God-Fearers like Cornelius were the first Gentiles as they were allied with Israel and citizens of their nation and upheld the Law of Moses in their lives and the lives of their families.

Conclusion: Your ethnic cleansing crusade just crashed and burned.

Actually, it is alive and well and described in Scripture. The last verse pecifically:

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
In that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem:
And it shall be lifted up, and ||inhabited in her place,
From Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto gthe corner gate,
And from hthe tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction;
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people
That have fought against Jerusalem;
Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet,
And their eyes shall consume away in their holes,
And their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Commentary: verse 12 is not the result of nuclear explosions. It says THE LORD WILL SMITE meaning it comes directly from Yahveh Himself.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them;
And they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour,
And his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;
And the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together,
Gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse,
Of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***,
And of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations
Which came against Jerusalem
Shall even go up from year to year
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
And to keep the feast of tabernacles

Commentary: the Feast of Tabernacles is a feast in the Law of Moses. Funny thing. Gentile Christians teach the Law of Moses is abolished. What a surprise when Gentiles find they are commanded by God to obey the Law of Moses!

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up
Of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
Even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain;
There shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt,
And the punishment of all nations
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses,
HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;
And the pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts:
And all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein:
And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Zechariah14:9–21.

Commentary: no more Canaanite refers to Gentiles! Israel possesses their land and not a Gentile in sight!

 

[Elizabeth]

I have something here for you to consider:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mt 5:17–18.

Yeshua was accused of changing the Law of Moses through His teachings. However, the difficulty the religious leaders had in understanding Yeshua's teachings was that He was instructing the people the spirit of the Law and the religious leaders only understood the letter of the Law. And yet, what the religious leaders did was elevate their traditions above the Law and saw that Yeshua was not supporting their traditions. Yeshua constantly defended the Law against the teachings of the elders, against their traditions, and Yeshua defended the Law of God perfectly.

Besides verse 17 where Yeshua declares truthfully, He did not come to destroy the law, verse 18 carries with it an established fact that until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Law until all be fulfilled. This implies the Law cannot be changed (Hebrews 7) or destroyed, as any change in the Law is tantamount to destroying the Law. Additionally, the Law of Moses was given to the children of Israel at the time of the Tabernacle. As you may know the Tabernacle contains many prefigures, symbolisms, and representations in which everything about the Law of Moses and the Tabernacle (Bread of Life, Light of the world, the altar, the Mercy Seat, etc.) all prophesy and point to Israel's Redeemer and Savior, Yeshua Mashiach.

Now, we can say the Law of Moses/God is written in stone and it is. This implies a permanence and perpetual existence of the Law of God, as is said, "until all be fulfilled." But all has yet to be fulfilled. The Law of Moses cannot be destroyed or changed. The Law of Moses contains prophecy of Israel's Redeemer. IF the Law can be changed then this means it is destroyed, and if the Law is destroyed, then so is everything about Israel's Redeemer. In a sense it would be deicide.

We don't know who the author of Hebrews is. Some say it was written by Saul and others say it doesn't fit the style of Saul. Some have attributed Hebrews to Priscilla or even Apollos. Hebrews contains many good statements that line up with the Hebrew Scriptures, and some things, although difficult to reconcile, do not exactly fit, such as presenting a change in the Law of Moses and/or a change in the priesthood.

The c onclusion I reach is that the order of Melchisedec was before the Law and separate from the Law of Moses. This leaves the Law of Moses unchangeable and intact. If Yeshua Mashiach does fulfill a priesthood after the order of Melchisedec it would be safe to say that although the Law says nothing about a High Priest coming out from the Tribe of Judah that too is fine and leaves the Law of Moses intact.

The church fathers were all Gentile. They gathered the scrolls for the purpose of a canon due to heresy in the Gentile church and persecution of the Gentile church. There were countless writings by the apostles copied, used in the church, and cared for and maintained. They had to sort out many writings by various Christians and non-Christian alike and when the final cut was made, we were left with a canon such as we have in our hands (depending on the source translation.) As a final note, I find Gentile Christians when discussing the Hebrew/Jewish covenants they rely heavily upon the New Covenant writings about things contained in the Hebrew Scripture rather than search the Hebrew Scriptures to find answers to our questions of faith and living for, as Yeshua Mashiach said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39.

He was talking about the unchangeable Law, Psalms, and the Prophets.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness..........so we do not throw any of it out. However we are no longer required to perform the ordinances....which were nailed to the cross. And we are no longer under the condemnation/curse of the Law. My, we don't even need to worry about avoiding anything sold in the marketplace for meat. And it's up to us whether to consider any day special to the Lord.

Scripture said at the time it was written that what is old and obsolete is passing/fading away. (ie,, old covenant)

And as you pointed out Jesus saying that not one jot or tittle of the Law would pass away until "heaven and earth" pass away and all things be fulfilled........so....when was everything fulfilled? And when did this "heaven and earth" pass away that He was referring to? (Remember that He speaks in parables!) Didn't He say everything was "finished" just as died? But even so He gave Israel a further 40 years or so in the valley of decision before the destruction of what was old. (As prophesied, she had given birth before her pains came upon her.) The temple and priesthood only became more corrupt and debauched during that time, unfortunately.

Hebrew roots is causing many to go astray. Galations says rightly that those who go back under the Law are "fallen from grace", so it's very serious and very sad. Good to be awakened and aware of the Jews and their need for salvation, but not good for either them or us if we put them on a pedestal and make an idol out of them.....or if we link arms and be unequally yoked with unbelieving Jews/Israel.

 

[Elizabeth]

Not "all over" but in places. The Hebrew Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is Hebrew Scriptures.

It is nothing less than the very "mystery of God from the foundation of the world" well-prophesied and foreshadowed in scripture but hidden until Jesus came and fulfilled it.......one new man gospel.....wall of partition torn down, nailed to the cross.

I don't know what you mean by "Gentile garb" but it sounds like a Gentile revision of history. Gentiles were enemies of Israel. And Israel was commanded to not mingle with the "Goyim" nor learn their ways as they were unclean before the Law and before God.

Appearing to be a Gentile ruler/king. Cyrus was Gentile, yet chosen by God to build His house.......Joseph though Jewish seemed to his brothers as a Gentile ruler of Egypt. And Ruth was Gentile yet she restored a Son to Jewish Naomi. Rahab brought 'salvation' to the Hebrew spies. So there is plenty of instruction and precedent in scripture, for Israel to expect a Gentile participation in these things, along with other prophecies.

Oh my, I hope you haven't drunk the kool-aid to its dregs my friend. Have you read about Peter's dream of the unclean animals?

Yes, and Saul wrote to Jewish Christians at Rome. All his letters and the letters of Peter, James, John, Matthrew, were written to Jewish followers of Christ in their various locations inside Israel and Jewish Christians in Gentile lands where the majority of Jews remained when Cyrus gave permission to return to their homeland. Only a remnant did return but the majority of Jews remained scattered throughout the then-known world. They were the targets of the eleven disciples Yeshua sent with the good news that Israel's Messiah had come and the message was salvation is of the Jews. God has kept His Promise (Deut. 18:15.)

Gosh no, they weren't written exclusively to the Jews. But even so, haven't you read that the gospel is to the Jew first, then the Gentile?

 

[synergy]

But the Promise is through Isaac no matter what Gentiles Hebrew men married for in this patriarchal society it is the Hebrew man to which God's promises belong.

How come Λουκᾶς, a Gentile born to Greek Parents in Antioch, Syria, never got that memo?

That's right. Whatever brain teasers Saul contemplated as he searched the Hebrew Scripture to understand and define the New Covenant that was initiated by God with the new births of 3000 Jews at Pentecost. And thousands more would be born again by weeks end. Glory, Glory Hallelu-JAH!

The Gentile and Greek mentioned in Romans 10:12 and 1:16 are proselytes. They would be the first Gentiles to hear the good news of Messiah's coming and overcoming death for His Covenant people. Proselytes and God-Fearers like Cornelius were the first Gentiles as they were allied with Israel and citizens of their nation and upheld the Law of Moses in their lives and the lives of their families.

Cornelius, a high Commander of the Roman army, was "allied with Israel"? Seriously? Your rewriting of history knows no bounds.

Actually, it is alive and well and described in Scripture. The last verse pecifically:

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
In that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem:
And it shall be lifted up, and ||inhabited in her place,
From Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto gthe corner gate,
And from hthe tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction;
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people
That have fought against Jerusalem;
Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet,
And their eyes shall consume away in their holes,
And their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Commentary: verse 12 is not the result of nuclear explosions. It says THE LORD WILL SMITE meaning it comes directly from Yahveh Himself.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them;
And they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour,
And his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;
And the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together,
Gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse,
Of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***,
And of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations
Which came against Jerusalem
Shall even go up from year to year
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
And to keep the feast of tabernacles

Commentary: the Feast of Tabernacles is a feast in the Law of Moses. Funny thing. Gentile Christians teach the Law of Moses is abolished. What a surprise when Gentiles find they are commanded by God to obey the Law of Moses!

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up
Of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
Even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain;
There shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt,
And the punishment of all nations
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses,
HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;
And the pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts:
And all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein:
And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Zechariah14:9–21.

Commentary: no more Canaanite refers to Gentiles! Israel possesses their land and not a Gentile in sight!

Your timelines continue to be mixed up. The context of the verses you quoted is purely OT times. Show me something similar written in the NT. Until then, your ethnic cleansing lust continues to be exposed as totally brankrupt in every way imaginable.

 

[jeremiah1five]

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness..........so we do not throw any of it out. However we are no longer required to perform the ordinances....which were nailed to the cross.

Gentiles were never covenanted to "perform ordinances" contained in the Mosaic Law. Gentiles were never included in any of the Hebrew Covenants God made with Abraham and his seed. And the terminology of "nailed to His cross" does not mean the Law is dead as He died. It means that the Mosaic Law was "nailed" to the work the Lord came to "finish" or complete. It (Mosaic Law) could not be joined to the Person of Christ except and only through His death. If one is going to say the Law was "nailed to His cross" and died as He died, there is also a resurrection in which as He rose so did the Law. You can't claim one and reject the other because now that it was joined to the Person of Christ the purpose of the Law in now complete and there is no longer any "shadow of good things to come," it is already here. And it is manifested in the Person of Christ. As the Law of God was eternal so, too, now the Lamb of God is eternal never to die again, never to be sacrificed again, never to end.

And we are no longer under the condemnation/curse of the Law. My, we don't even need to worry about avoiding anything sold in the marketplace for meat. And it's up to us whether to consider any day special to the Lord.

It is the born-again that is no longer under condemnation as Saul says in Romans 8:1.
But it is not "up to us to consider any day special to the Lord." It is still up to the Lord as He is not only Lord of the sabbath but also the Law of Moses entirely. Case in point: (and understand this as to the Jew first and then to the Greek) but Zechariah prophesied a time in which Gentiles are commanded to "go up" to Jerusalem and celebrate the third of three Feasts contained in the Law of Moses: the Feast of Tabernacles.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations
Which came against Jerusalem
Shall even go up from year to year
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
And to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zechariah14:16.

Scripture said at the time it was written that what is old and obsolete is passing/fading away. (ie,, old covenant)

And as you pointed out Jesus saying that not one jot or tittle of the Law would pass away until "heaven and earth" pass away and all things be fulfilled........so....when was everything fulfilled? And when did this "heaven and earth" pass away that He was referring to? (Remember that He speaks in parables!)

He spoke plainly on this subject, not in parables as the Beatitudes (Matt. 5:3-11) are not parables. They are clear instructions and teaching on how to live under the Law which to the born-again is manifested in a special new way.

Didn't He say everything was "finished" just as died?

What was "finished" was His work He came to complete as the Lamb of God which is prophesied in the Hebrew Scriptures. God's Redemption of His covenant people (Israel) did not end at the cross, for in 50 days a new era would begin and the Holy Spirit that was prophesied and promised to the House of Israel has part and parcel in the Redemptive plan of God to deliver and save them not from their enemies of the flesh (Rome), but their enemies of the spirit: sin, and spiritual death. Wasn't that the purpose of the cross?

But even so He gave Israel a further 40 years or so in the valley of decision before the destruction of what was old. (As prophesied, she had given birth before her pains came upon her.)

There was nothing evil in the destruction of the Second Temple. It was necessary in the timing of the Redemption of Israel and the bringing in hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles. It wasn't "old" it was new. It was a "new thing" God was doing in the earth:

19 Behold, I will do a new thing;
Now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it?
I will even make a way in the wilderness,
And rivers in the desert.
20 The beast of the field shall honour me,
The dragons and the †owls:
Because I give waters in the wilderness,
And rivers in the desert,
To give drink to my people, my chosen.
21 This people have I formed for myself;
They shall shew forth my praise.
Isaiah 43:19–21.

God was putting new wine in new bottles for His Chosen Israel. And for the next four decades He did just that! As promised Yeshua began building His Church and His Church was populated throughout the Roman Empire with Jews. I agree hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles (Romans, Scythian, Barbarian) were being saved but not at the number most if not all Gentiles believe. This was a Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah and a Holy Spirit of God who made His Presence known in an immensely powerful way. The Law of Moses "nailed to His cross and rose again as He rose" was now being put in their "inward parts" as Jeremiah prophesied. For Israel the Law of Moses was no longer on stone tablets. Now, the Law of Moses was being written on fleshly tables of the heart.

The temple and priesthood only became more corrupt and debauched during that time, unfortunately.

Not entirely.

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. Acts 6:7.

In Temple service there are seventy elders. And then there are those in service to God in local synagogues. Whatever the number, when I see "great company" I see the majority. God was moving upon His people in a new and special way.

Hebrew roots is causing many to go astray. Galations says rightly that those who go back under the Law are "fallen from grace", so it's very serious and very sad.

Salvation cannot be lost. No man can pluck a born-again believer from the palm of neither the Father nor the Son.
Hebrew roots are what was severed by the Gentile church after the destruction of the Temple and it became its own religion, a religion born not out of the Jewish people, but of a Gentile mindset as underlining prejudice and hatred for the Jews was eminent among Gentiles who saw the destruction of not only Temple but also Israel took a salvation of the Jews and twisted it into a salvation of the Gentiles. Everything Jewish about salvation was turned into a beast, a seven-head, ten-crown beast which in time like a ship without a rudder on a sea Roman and Greek influence became something else entirely.

Good to be awakened and aware of the Jews and their need for salvation, but not good for either them or us if we put them on a pedestal and make an idol out of them.....or if we link arms and be unequally yoked with unbelieving Jews/Israel.

The covenants God made with men He made with a Hebrew man (Abram) to begin, and later with his seed (Isaac, Jacob/the children of Israel.) God made no covenant with Gentiles. But He is saving Gentiles without a covenant. And by being born-again themselves does not join them to any Hebrew Covenant, but it does join them to Christ. And there is a difference according to God. Understanding that difference can go a long way to understanding the Salvation of the Jews and Gentile participation in that salvation. Doing so will deepen one's understanding of this "so-great salvation."

 

[jeremiah1five]

It is nothing less than the very "mystery of God from the foundation of the world" well-prophesied and foreshadowed in scripture but hidden until Jesus came and fulfilled it.......one new man gospel.....wall of partition torn down, nailed to the cross.

Never heard of "mystery of God from the foundation of the world." That's not in the bible is it.
Fulfilled what?
Which gospel? There are many gospels in Scripture.

Appearing to be a Gentile ruler/king.

He was a Gentile king.

Cyrus was Gentile, yet chosen by God to build His house.......

Build what house?

Joseph though Jewish seemed to his brothers as a Gentile ruler of Egypt. And Ruth was Gentile yet she restored a Son to Jewish Naomi.

Yes, but the promise went through Boaz. She couldn't have done it without him. And he was tribal.

Rahab brought 'salvation' to the Hebrew spies.

Not salvation. Protection.

So there is plenty of instruction and precedent in scripture, for Israel to expect a Gentile participation in these things, along with other prophecies.

Oh my, I hope you haven't drunk the kool-aid to its dregs my friend. Have you read about Peter's dream of the unclean animals?

Yes. In his mind as a Judaizer he saw uncircumcised God-Fearers as unclean. And for all intents and purposes he (Cornelius) was. Remain in context and let's not go out of context.

Gosh no, they weren't written exclusively to the Jews. But even so, haven't you read that the gospel is to the Jew first, then the Gentile?

Do you even know what the gospel was that Jesus instructed His eleven disciples to share, and with who?
Of course, the New Covenant writing of Matthew to Revelation were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians. No hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentile even had elementary school education level of knowledge of Jewish history, culture, the covenants, the prophets, their prophecies, their Temple, or of the patriarchs necessary to understand the Jewishness in all the letters written. There was a middle wall partition for 3000 years and Jews and Gentiles were enemies. Gentiles wanted nothing to do with Jews and Jews wanted nothing to do with Gentiles. Something about their uncleanness and God's command to not mingle with the Gentiles and learn their ways.
When you realize the New Covenant writings were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians discussing the New Covenant era upon them and their progress at trying to understand this new thing God was doing in the earth then you'll come to the knowledge of the truth and your understanding will deepen.
But as long as you look at the Hebrew Scripture with a Gentile mindset and continue to hold to Constantinian Gentile false theology you'll remain far from the truth.
I see it in your words.
Come out from among them and be separate.
If you can.

 

[jeremiah1five]

How come Λουκᾶς, a Gentile born to Greek Parents in Antioch, Syria, never got that memo?

He played hooky. So, he was fired.

Cornelius, a high Commander of the Roman army, was "allied with Israel"? Seriously? Your rewriting of history knows no bounds.

Most definitely. There was a Roman centurion who love Israel and even displayed that love for the Hebrew people by building them a synagogue.

2 And a certain centurion’s servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.
3 And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.
4 And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this:
5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue. Lk 7:2–5.

Verse 2: This centurion may have been a God-Fearer himself.
Verse 3: "he heard of Jesus." Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. I'm sure this centurion if he was a God-Fearer would have known something of the Hebrew Scriptures to identify Jesus as Israel's Promised One, Messiah.
Verse 4: These elders of the Jews vouching for a Gentile, that this "unclean" person was worthy? Hmmm...
Verse 5: It's a confirmed, Biblical fact that if one loves God, they would also love His Chosen people. This Gentile centurion loved God. Yes, he was a Gentile God-Fearer, one who knew the Hebrew Scriptures, loved God and His Chosen people, even to the point of spending his hard-earned denarius to build the Jews a synagogue.

Now, on to Cornelius:
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. Acts 10:1–2.

Yes, a high commander of the Roman army of 100 roughnecks, a devout man, one who feared God (God-Fearer) along with his whole household, gave mucho alms to the people, and prayed to God 50% of the time? 75% of the time? No, prayed to God of Abraham ALWAYS.
This centurion was most definitely "allied with Israel."
It's great to have friends in high commander places.

I know my history.
And Scripture.
I was surprised you didn't know this about Cornelius, that he was an uncircumcised God-Fearer.
The Word of God, the gospel didn't go to hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles. It went to Gentiles that were already "in the car" with Israel. So, when you see the word 'Gentile' in the New Covenant writings, especially obedient-to-the-Law, rabbi Saul's letters, it may help your doctrinal understanding that such Gentile would be a committed circumcised proselyte or uncircumcised God-Fearer. The "stranger" or "sojourner" and "servants" in Abraham's household would qualify as proselytes, being circumcised but NOT in the Abrahamic Covenant as to be in the Abrahamic Covenant one would have to be Abraham or of his seed. That's what the Scripture says.

Your timelines continue to be mixed up. The context of the verses you quoted is purely OT times. Show me something similar written in the NT. Until then, your ethnic cleansing lust continues to be exposed as totally brankrupt in every way imaginable.

I can show you through Scripture God ethnically cleansing the Promised Land at a future date when the Jews occupy the land, but you'd produce some twisted interpreted angle to discount the Word of truth. Still, I will give you one Scripture that shows there will be NO GENTILES in the Promised Land when Jews come to own it.

And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Zech. 14:21.

In Joshua's time there were Canaanites (Gentiles) in the Promised Land. In the future God will cleanse the land of a Gentile presence. God is very ethnic as I said before.
God said it.
That settles it.

 

[synergy]

He played hooky. So, he was fired.

Only by being silly can you maintain your ethnic cleansing lust.

Most definitely. There was a Roman centurion who love Israel and even displayed that love for the Hebrew people by building them a synagogue.

2 And a certain centurion’s servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.
3 And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.
4 And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this:
5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue. Lk 7:2–5.

Verse 2: This centurion may have been a God-Fearer himself.
Verse 3: "he heard of Jesus." Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. I'm sure this centurion if he was a God-Fearer would have known something of the Hebrew Scriptures to identify Jesus as Israel's Promised One, Messiah.
Verse 4: These elders of the Jews vouching for a Gentile, that this "unclean" person was worthy? Hmmm...
Verse 5: It's a confirmed, Biblical fact that if one loves God, they would also love His Chosen people. This Gentile centurion loved God. Yes, he was a Gentile God-Fearer, one who knew the Hebrew Scriptures, loved God and His Chosen people, even to the point of spending his hard-earned denarius to build the Jews a synagogue.

Now, on to Cornelius:
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. Acts 10:1–2.

Yes, a high commander of the Roman army of 100 roughnecks, a devout man, one who feared God (God-Fearer) along with his whole household, gave mucho alms to the people, and prayed to God 50% of the time? 75% of the time? No, prayed to God of Abraham ALWAYS.
This centurion was most definitely "allied with Israel."
It's great to have friends in high commander places.

I know my history.
And Scripture.
I was surprised you didn't know this about Cornelius, that he was an uncircumcised God-Fearer.
The Word of God, the gospel didn't go to hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles. It went to Gentiles that were already "in the car" with Israel. So, when you see the word 'Gentile' in the New Covenant writings, especially obedient-to-the-Law, rabbi Saul's letters, it may help your doctrinal understanding that such Gentile would be a committed circumcised proselyte or uncircumcised God-Fearer. The "stranger" or "sojourner" and "servants" in Abraham's household would qualify as proselytes, being circumcised but NOT in the Abrahamic Covenant as to be in the Abrahamic Covenant one would have to be Abraham or of his seed. That's what the Scripture says.

The word "allied" has political and military connotations. It is a political or military statement. No Roman Commander would shirk his responsibility of maintaining military control over Israel.

I can show you through Scripture God ethnically cleansing the Promised Land at a future date when the Jews occupy the land, but you'd produce some twisted interpreted angle to discount the Word of truth. Still, I will give you one Scripture that shows there will be NO GENTILES in the Promised Land when Jews come to own it.

And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Zech. 14:21.

In Joshua's time there were Canaanites (Gentiles) in the Promised Land. In the future God will cleanse the land of a Gentile presence. God is very ethnic as I said before.
God said it.
That settles it.

You still cannot produce an NT ethnic cleansing verse. Carry on with your ethnic cleansing crusade and tell us how that works out for you.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Only by being silly can you maintain your ethnic cleansing lust.

Finally, a compliment. But I don't "lust" is a sinful way, and neither did Jesus when he was confronted with temptation in the desert. James says:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:13–14.

Jesus was a man tempted in every way as we are except "choris hamartia."

The word "allied" has political and military connotations. It is a political or military statement. No Roman Commander would shirk his responsibility of maintaining military control over Israel.

I think a man like this God-Fearer was fair, just, and applied Roman administration in a righteous way. This garnered good cooperation from the Jews. You see elders of the Jews went on a mission for him. This speaks of closeness and alliance. Probably went to the same synagogue the other centurion built for the Jews.

You still cannot produce an NT ethnic cleansing verse. Carry on with your ethnic cleansing crusade and tell us how that works out for you.

Ah, you mean New Testament. See that? Looking for an angle.
I don't have to find a cleansing verse in the NT. It's in the Hebrew Scriptures Authored by God through His prophets and I already posted the verse from Zechariah.

 

[synergy]

Finally, a compliment. But I don't "lust" is a sinful way, and neither did Jesus when he was confronted with temptation in the desert. James says:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:13–14.

Jesus was a man tempted in every way as we are except "choris hamartia."

If you don't think that a lust for ethnic cleansing is not a sin then you're in an alternate universe altogether.

I think a man like this God-Fearer was fair, just, and applied Roman administration in a righteous way. This garnered good cooperation from the Jews. You see elders of the Jews went on a mission for him. This speaks of closeness and alliance. Probably went to the same synagogue the other centurion built for the Jews.

All Roman Commanders maintained military control over Israel, so there was no military or political alliance between them and Israel whatsoever.

Ah, you mean New Testament. See that? Looking for an angle.
I don't have to find a cleansing verse in the NT. It's in the Hebrew Scriptures Authored by God through His prophets and I already posted the verse from ZeZechariah.

My "angle" is the NT, the word of God. I see you have a problem with that. In that case, carry on with your circumcision laws and your temple sacrifices.

 

[civic]

It is nothing less than the very "mystery of God from the foundation of the world" well-prophesied and foreshadowed in scripture but hidden until Jesus came and fulfilled it.......one new man gospel.....wall of partition torn down, nailed to the cross.


Appearing to be a Gentile ruler/king. Cyrus was Gentile, yet chosen by God to build His house.......Joseph though Jewish seemed to his brothers as a Gentile ruler of Egypt. And Ruth was Gentile yet she restored a Son to Jewish Naomi. Rahab brought 'salvation' to the Hebrew spies. So there is plenty of instruction and precedent in scripture, for Israel to expect a Gentile participation in these things, along with other prophecies.

Oh my, I hope you haven't drunk the kool-aid to its dregs my friend. Have you read about Peter's dream of the unclean animals?


Gosh no, they weren't written exclusively to the Jews. But even so, haven't you read that the gospel is to the Jew first, then the Gentile?

ditto

 

[Elizabeth]

Gentiles were never covenanted to "perform ordinances" contained in the Mosaic Law. Gentiles were never included in any of the Hebrew Covenants God made with Abraham and his seed. And the terminology of "nailed to His cross" does not mean the Law is dead as He died. It means that the Mosaic Law was "nailed" to the work the Lord came to "finish" or complete. It (Mosaic Law) could not be joined to the Person of Christ except and only through His death. If one is going to say the Law was "nailed to His cross" and died as He died, there is also a resurrection in which as He rose so did the Law. You can't claim one and reject the other because now that it was joined to the Person of Christ the purpose of the Law in now complete and there is no longer any "shadow of good things to come," it is already here. And it is manifested in the Person of Christ. As the Law of God was eternal so, too, now the Lamb of God is eternal never to die again, never to be sacrificed again, never to end.

As far as I understand it, Gentiles turning to God under the old covenant were required to do everything the Jews were commanded to do. And the Jews proselytized the Gentiles. However, the point is that nobody turning to God through Christ and His new covenant, Jew or Gentile, is required to perform those ordinances any longer. And moreover it was those ordinances that made a partition and distinguished and separated between Jew and Gentile...which partition was torn down through the cross.

No, the Law was not resurrected with Jesus, oh dear....where did you get that idea from?......just when I thought I'd heard everything. On the contrary the bible says the opposite.... what is old and obsolete (old covenant/Law) did indeed pass away. I can see that these scrips won't help you anyhow, you've found ways to wrest them all because of your deception. A lie is an idol and stronghold in the heart and mind and not easy to be delivered from....it takes a love of truth and willingness to allow God to correct and teach us. You need to get to know the bible better without those Jewish coloured glasses on. Just be willing to lay them aside long enough to see what is written clearly and be instructed by it. Both Jew and Gentile need God-coloured glasses to see with. See if you have ears to hear this from the OT: The angel was asked "Which side are you on?" and he replied, "NEITHER, but in the name of the LORD do I come."


Eph 2:12-17

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Rom 7:3-4

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


The Law is eternal as being part of God's word to instruct, reprove, correct us etc. It instructs us as to what righteousness looks like, and it points everywhere in every way to Christ. But nobody is required to be UNDER it and BOUND to it any longer, as we serve in the new way of the Spirit now in liberty. Being led by the Spirit to do God's will; walking in the Spirit so as to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 2:4
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gal 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Are you one of those false brethren? Fallen from grace according to this..?

Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is nothing less than the very "mystery of God from the foundation of the world" well-prophesied and foreshadowed in scripture but hidden until Jesus came and fulfilled it

It was "hidden" in Christ because.... Christ is the express image of God. God Incarnate. You can't get a clearer "picture" than the Son. No shadows. Just "picking" around the edges......

Which is why Israel is so blinded. Blindness doesn't see anything.

I once knew a blind man that had his eyes removed because they became so diseased. He said that "having no eyes" is different than most blindness in this world. When he had his eyes, even though he couldn't see any light, he could sense the difference between night and day. After his eyes were removed, he lost any sense of night and day.

They are so senseless through unbelief that is almost impossible to deal with their blatant blaspheme against Christ. Even those who claim Christ often ignore Him to the point that He has no meaningful part of their theology.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In Joshua's time there were Canaanites (Gentiles) in the Promised Land. In the future God will cleanse the land of a Gentile presence. God is very ethnic as I said before.
God said it.
That settles it.

What about that foreskin you have around your heart?

Jer 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Your evil heart is showing in your theology. Why are you actually any different than a uncircumcised Gentle who carries the sin of whoremongering around in his foreskin?

You're not.